Managing the Brilliant Jerk Without Letting Them Wreck Your Culture

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We've all at least seen that one person that does an incredible amount of work, and the cost to get that work done is so ridiculously high.
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It's expensive.
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It's very emotionally expensive.
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Yeah.
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So yes, it is to me, it is that person that everyone in the office avoids for the most part.
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Now, granted, usually I have found, as we like to coin this, the brilliant jerk.
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Yes.
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Is often a charismatic person that people were like, oh hey, I'll listen to them talk, but no one wants to work with them.
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Oh gosh.
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No. How the hell do you deal with that?
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That is what we're going to talk about this week.
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She's the CEO.
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He's the marketing and operations guy.
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If it's broken, you need the business fix.
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There's one way to not deal with it.
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It's called don't hire them in the first place.
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But you know, we make mistakes.
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I was about to say.
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And the problem is too, is managers.
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Sometimes you walk into that situation, you do, and you're like, I have a oh, I've got a high performer.
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Oh yes.
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Yeah, a high performer, right.
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Depends on how they say it.
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Right, right.
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It's like I, I would think like, and I'm trying to think of even a good analogy, but I don't know if there is one.
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Um, it's like eating something.
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It's like, ah, it's a milkshake for someone that's lactose intolerant.
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That's it.
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It's a donut for someone who has celiac.
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Yeah, right.
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This tastes amazing.
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You are gonna pay for it later for one hundred percent or one hundred percent.
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Like you're, you're gonna, you're gonna have this wonderful, wonderful experience, followed by the most horrific experience of you and the person in the stall next to you's life.
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Buckle up.
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It's a great time.
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You.
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You may need to buckle down for those.
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Yes.
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You're like, yeah, yeah.
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No, I think to me, this is.
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And to me, what sucks about this is so often as the business leader of any sort, you feel like this is the hostage situation.
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Oh it is.
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Um, yeah.
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I mean, do you fire him?
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Well, do we lose?
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We're going to lose business if we fire him.
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Or we're gonna lose whatever if we fire him and.
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Yeah, well, and it's the hostage situation for you as a business owner or CEO, but it is absolutely a hostage situation for the team members that have to deal with them.
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And that's what sucks.
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It's a it's a dual hostage.
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It's a dual hostage situation.
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And I don't think we talk enough about how that team gets impacted.
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I think like if we talk about our Instagram, that's where half of our likes come from is when we talk about these types of situations.
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Oh, like when we've mentioned the brilliant jerk.
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Those Instagram posts go bananas and people are like, I know this person.
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Yes, yes.
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I mean, so far we haven't seen anyone tag anyone else yet.
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Thank God.
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If you're gonna, we'd love for you to tag someone in our posts.
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Yes.
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Um, maybe not calling them out on that.
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No, but you can tag your owner like your business owner.
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If you're an employee, maybe they'll.
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Look, we're happy to talk to them about it.
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Yeah, yeah, maybe you want to do that anonymously.
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Yeah.
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Or not be brave.
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Be brave.
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So when we, like, we're like one of our most downloaded episodes, we were talking about culture killers.
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And we also looking at the coach.
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Correct.
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And cut.
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Yep.
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Um, the hardest termination of all is the person that's killing it.
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They're just absolutely killing it.
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And by killing it, I mean both the KPIs.
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Yeah.
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And your team.
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Um, because they're killing both of them.
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Um, one of them you want dead.
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The other one you.
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You kind of want them.
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And once again, we've all met him.
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It's the salesperson that triples the quota but makes your executive assistant cry.
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It's the developer who writes amazing code but won't document anything.
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Um, I've worked with that IT guy before who's like, oh no, it's fine.
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Um, to me, it's just so difficult.
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And I see it in so many times with it.
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Like the conflict with it is, is visionaries love results.
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Yeah.
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Um, as an operations guy, I hate friction.
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Um, I want to make sure it's as easy as possible to get there.
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To me, the high performance, the high performer whose toxic they are not actually a high performer.
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Um, they give you some numbers, but the cultural tacks, the operational debt, everything like that.
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The other ways that they just crush you, um, make it so it's, it's not the equation you think it is.
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Yeah.
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We've talked about psychological safety.
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We do, um, one of it's a subject that, I mean, once again, we feel strongly about.
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People need this.
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We do.
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How does the toxic high performer tell the rest of the team?
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Your core values are shitty wall art.
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Oh. It was such a nice question and just.
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Yeah.
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So brilliant.
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Jerks almost always create confusion for leaders.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Because they make money, they solve problems.
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They produce results.
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Yes.
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So a leader really, I mean, we start rationalizing, you know, I know that Bob made you cry, but, you know, I mean, he's just intense.
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So you just that's that's just their personality.
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These are things that I may have said.
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These are also things that I've heard people say.
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I mean, we need them right now.
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I realize that, oh, that Beth has has like pretty much said she's only going to show up if it's really important and nothing is really important, but she does like three things that are really important to the business.
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So, you know, we just we need them right now.
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I can't let them go.
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They may be giving me the middle finger, but I just I can't.
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Right.
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When you say that, all I can think of is Stanley going to Michael Scott?
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Did I stutter?
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Yes.
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And I mean, so you've said those three things.
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But honestly, I mean, a lot of that comes from what we talked about when we talked about the nice leader trap, that podcast.
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So if you haven't listened to that, maybe listen to that.
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Um, because keeping the brilliant jerk is often not about kindness.
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It's really about avoidance.
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And as a leader, we're trying to avoid conflict.
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We are, we are absolutely avoiding disruption.
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Most are avoiding like fear of losing revenue is real.
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And so, you know, leaders are going to avoid that.
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We don't want to deal with losing revenue or the uncomfortable reality that business became too dependent on one person.
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Ouch.
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That brilliant jerk is responsible for thirty percent of your business.
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We can't lose them.
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They're too important, are they?
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And to me, a quick answer to that is, is like they're not.
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Because what happens if they get hit by a bus?
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Yeah.
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I mean, you may even be hoping for that.
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I'm sure that there are some people that are secretly praying for their brilliant church to get hit by a bus.
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I don't want to know about it.
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Right.
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As as HR representative?
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No, no. Like, so how are you looking at this?
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Yeah.
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So there are three R's to dealing with a brilliant jerk.
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Results respect and replication.
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So results.
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Yes.
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That person may produce at a high level.
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But leaders make that huge mistake when they define performance only by numbers.
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Right?
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Results matter.
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But how the results happen matters too.
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So if someone is producing through fear, chaos, or intimidation, the organization is going to pay for those results somewhere else.
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We talked about it in the competition episode around like, oh, well, this person produces mass results.
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Well, how are they doing that?
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Is that because they're hoarding all of the leads?
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Is that because they've got one key relationship?
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Like, let's talk about that.
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So results.
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That's the first R. Second R is respect.
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All right.
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So this is where culture damage starts because the team is watching.
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And when leaders excuse toxic behavior because someone performs what the employees here is values are optional if you're valuable enough.
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Right.
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Wow.
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That's and that's a tough one because really to me, if if optional or if values are optional.
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Optional.
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If you are valuable enough, they're going to test that they are what's valuable enough mean.
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Yes.
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And that's the favoritism trap, right?
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So then the rules quietly become one standard for the producer and another standard for everyone else.
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That's that rules for me, but not for thee.
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Right?
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And once that happens, leaders use they lose moral authority.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And I have seen leaders spend months coaching everyone around the brilliant jerk instead of coaching the actual brilliant jerk.
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Oh, you know what this is?
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This is how Jim does things.
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We're just going to do things the way that Jim needs to have them done because, you know, they're important.
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I mean, I've I've been the person doing that coaching.
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I've done it wrong.
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Learn from me.
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So please, please.
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And that's how I mean, that's when, you know, fears entered leadership is when you are coaching around that person.
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Yep.
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You've lost respect.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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And then the third is replication.
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And this is the scaling question that really nobody asks enough.
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And it's can this person success replicate through the organization?
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Ooh yeah.
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Yeah.
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Are they a brilliant jerk that has repeatable skills that can be trained to other people?
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Or are they just an anomaly?
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All right.
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So is this person.
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Can it be replicated or does it only work because one, they're controlling the information?
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Yep.
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I've got all the leads or I've got one source.
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Number two is they hoard relationships.
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I mean that's seen it.
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I've seen it two or three.
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They create dependency.
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Yep.
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So everybody intentionally everybody has to come to me because not only am I the brilliant jerk, I'm also the hero of everything.
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Yep.
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And then the last one is do they intimidate the room?
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And I think that out of all of those, that is probably the most damaging is when your brilliant jerk intimidates everyone else around them.
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Because if success can't be replicated, it's not scalable.
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And if it isn't scalable, it isn't sustainable.
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No, no, no it's not.
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Oh, so I mean, a brilliant jerk may produce a ton of revenue, but they usually destroy the repeatability of any other revenue that can be replicated.
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And when you say repeatability, you mean someone else's ability to do the same thing.
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Correct.
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Yeah.
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That's what I thought when like the collapse of trust, I mean, that happens when you've got a high performing culture killer.
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Yeah.
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Like when what happens when they're, they're allowed to stay.
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You're just like, hey, just hang out.
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Just stay quiet.
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Um, and how does that like, there's typically, there's, the problem is, is there's a gap between the brilliant jerk.
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And then there's the rest of the people.
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But in the rest of the people, you still have your average and you still have above average people.
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So how does it impact those above average people?
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Yeah.
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Um, that still are making great output for you.
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Yeah.
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So let's talk about results.
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So high performers are going to stop trying as hard when they're dealing with a brilliant jerk.
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Yep.
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And it's not because they stop caring.
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It's because they've stopped believing that leadership is going to protect the standard.
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Right.
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So they're moving.
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And then in respect, you've got that emotional contract that you've broken.
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And this is where, you know, psychological safety we get it gets misunderstood because people think that psychological safety is about keeping everyone comfortable.
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It's not.
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It's not about keeping everyone comfortable.
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It's not about avoiding accountability or protecting feelings.
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It's about protecting fairness.
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I like how before you started the psychological safety part, you heard there was this deep breath like, yeah, I gotta talk about this again.
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We are gonna repeat this a million times until people really understand what it is.
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Yeah.
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So psychological safety is about protecting fairness.
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And so when the team sees one person allowed to violate values repeatedly, they are stopping feeling psychologically safe because the environment has now become unpredictable.
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One hundred percent.
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It is.
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So I mean, we talk about, you know, we've got rockstar traps that we can be in.
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There is also a quiet superstar problem.
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All right.
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So yeah, we haven't addressed this.
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We have not.
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We have not.
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This is a new term.
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I'm excited for this.
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This is the people that are most impacted by the brilliant jerk are usually not the loudest people.
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They are your quiet superstars, right?
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They're the reliable people that show up consistently do the work.
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They're the collaborative people that work together and solve problems.
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And they're also usually the emotionally mature people because they haven't blown up your brilliant jerk in the middle of a meeting.
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They're not.
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They're just lit them up.
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They haven't they're not there to create drama.
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So what they're doing is they are quietly disengaging.
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And then leaders are absolutely shocked when that person resigns.
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I cannot believe that Alice isn't with us anymore.
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And it's like, well, George made her miserable, right?
00:14:35.826 --> 00:14:43.759
He continued to tell her that she wasn't capable, wouldn't share resources when she had a question, and when she was trying to solve client issues, everything was her fault, right?
00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:45.460
Of course, Alice is going to leave.
00:14:45.460 --> 00:14:47.926
You're like, well, now she works for our competition and she's happy.
00:14:47.926 --> 00:14:51.293
And like half of our customers are starting to walk away because she's out of her non-compete.
00:14:51.293 --> 00:14:53.060
And it's like, yeah, because you did that.
00:14:53.060 --> 00:14:56.593
You empowered George to be an absolute jerk in this situation.
00:14:56.593 --> 00:15:02.326
And your star performer, who was really quiet and you didn't realize how consistent they were, walked out the door.
00:15:02.326 --> 00:15:07.360
So if you do not have respect, you're going to have a quiet superstar problem.
00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:08.160
Yep.
00:15:08.160 --> 00:15:09.993
And that last one is replication.
00:15:09.993 --> 00:15:14.060
And this is where the organization starts adapting around the dysfunction.
00:15:14.060 --> 00:15:18.993
And I cannot tell you, Josh, how many times I have done this wrong.
00:15:18.993 --> 00:15:22.493
And really people are like, you sound like you do everything.
00:15:22.493 --> 00:15:23.192
No, I do not.
00:15:23.192 --> 00:15:28.160
This is this is really this is one where I've gotten stuck because it's like, I will just shape the path around this person.
00:15:28.160 --> 00:15:29.560
don't do it.
00:15:29.560 --> 00:15:31.126
Because what happens is the organization.
00:15:31.126 --> 00:15:35.593
Organization starts adapting around the dysfunction so people will avoid conflict.
00:15:35.593 --> 00:15:39.593
They stop speaking up and they're working around the jerk instead of the system.
00:15:39.593 --> 00:15:39.926
All right.
00:15:39.926 --> 00:15:40.725
Working through the system.
00:15:40.725 --> 00:15:41.660
We're not doing it.
00:15:41.660 --> 00:15:45.225
And it makes sense because once again, you've got this.
00:15:45.225 --> 00:15:55.759
You've started to form it towards this malleable, malleable person, the jerk that is going to change the rules to whatever they want, whatever's convenient for them.
00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:56.360
Yes.
00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:59.826
And so now you've got this moving goalpost and you can't replicate that.
00:15:59.826 --> 00:16:00.060
Yeah.
00:16:00.060 --> 00:16:07.660
And you've created shadow workflows and cultural fragmentation, and the cost of a brilliant jerk is usually paid by the healthiest people in the company.
00:16:07.660 --> 00:16:08.126
Ouch.
00:16:08.126 --> 00:16:10.460
Again, those quiet superstars.
00:16:10.460 --> 00:16:10.993
Yeah.
00:16:10.993 --> 00:16:22.493
There's a reason why there's all these Instagram posts about people like losing their willingness or want to work in an organization because someone just keeps getting credit for something that they're not doing well.
00:16:22.493 --> 00:16:26.692
When you're watching everyone, when you're watching someone break all the rules, why does it?
00:16:26.692 --> 00:16:28.426
Why is it so important that I follow them?
00:16:28.426 --> 00:16:30.826
Yeah, no, I get that.
00:16:30.826 --> 00:16:34.093
On the flip side of that, speaking of rule breaking, yeah.
00:16:34.093 --> 00:16:36.926
From an HR like risk standpoint.
00:16:36.926 --> 00:16:37.626
Mhm.
00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:42.093
I feel like you need to manage the correct phase of this.
00:16:42.093 --> 00:16:46.960
And when I say correct, like, I mean by correcting someone in terms of getting them back in.
00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:47.626
Yeah.
00:16:47.626 --> 00:16:52.692
Someone that thinks they're above the law, what's the right way to correct that?
00:16:52.692 --> 00:16:54.493
I'm assuming handcuffs are not involved.
00:16:54.493 --> 00:16:55.660
No, they're not involved.
00:16:55.660 --> 00:17:06.026
And it's this can be one where, you know, regulating your emotions is really important as a leader, because I think that brilliant jerks are really good at pushing emotional buttons.
00:17:06.026 --> 00:17:07.893
So this is they're often charismatic.
00:17:07.893 --> 00:17:08.925
They are.
00:17:08.925 --> 00:17:12.692
And they are going to and like, yeah, charismatic have an ego.
00:17:12.692 --> 00:17:13.492
Like, what are you going to do?
00:17:13.492 --> 00:17:14.425
You're gonna fire me?
00:17:14.425 --> 00:17:16.425
It's like, actually, yeah, I am.
00:17:16.425 --> 00:17:20.893
So you have to stop leading emotionally and you have to lead structurally.
00:17:20.893 --> 00:17:29.593
So this is really where structure is really helpful because brilliant jerks are really good at creating emotional leverage because they imply you need me.
00:17:29.593 --> 00:17:30.492
You have to have me.
00:17:30.492 --> 00:17:34.059
The company is going to struggle or go out of business without me.
00:17:34.059 --> 00:17:35.192
I promise you it won't.
00:17:35.192 --> 00:17:35.692
Nope.
00:17:35.692 --> 00:17:37.225
So. And nobody else can do it.
00:17:37.225 --> 00:17:39.593
No one can do this job but me.
00:17:39.593 --> 00:17:42.826
So they they do those three things and then leaders believe them.
00:17:42.826 --> 00:17:52.026
And then you get into this nice leader trap that we've talked about in the past, too, where leaders sugarcoat, they delay and they downplay because they're terrified of hearing someone say, well, fine, I'll just quit.
00:17:52.026 --> 00:17:52.992
You're going to coach me on this?
00:17:52.992 --> 00:17:53.160
Fine.
00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:53.960
I'll just quit.
00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:55.660
Let them.
00:17:55.660 --> 00:17:57.225
You let them.
00:17:57.225 --> 00:17:58.326
All right.
00:17:58.326 --> 00:18:00.692
When you said, what are you gonna do, fire me?
00:18:00.692 --> 00:18:03.093
All I could think of was Val Kilmer.
00:18:03.093 --> 00:18:03.593
In.
00:18:03.593 --> 00:18:04.692
In. What is it?
00:18:04.692 --> 00:18:06.026
Tombstone or whatever.
00:18:06.026 --> 00:18:07.326
I'm your huckleberry.
00:18:10.725 --> 00:18:14.593
I mean, I get that, you know, sometimes that fear is real around people.
00:18:14.593 --> 00:18:17.259
And I think that you're just dismissing me.
00:18:17.259 --> 00:18:20.259
Like I have legitimate fear around this person leaving my business.
00:18:20.259 --> 00:18:22.160
Okay, let's acknowledge that.
00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:23.960
Yeah, that fear is real.
00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:30.192
But if your culture can be held hostage by one employee, you don't have a talent problem.
00:18:30.192 --> 00:18:33.192
You have a systems problem, and you're going to talk about it in operations.
00:18:33.192 --> 00:18:33.559
Yeah.
00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:38.359
But let's talk about, you know, results, respect and replication one more time.
00:18:38.359 --> 00:18:39.059
All right.
00:18:39.059 --> 00:18:43.425
As we go through the HR, HR, HR, HR.
00:18:43.425 --> 00:18:44.259
All right.
00:18:44.259 --> 00:18:45.859
So results with the brilliant jerk.
00:18:45.859 --> 00:18:46.625
You know what?
00:18:46.625 --> 00:18:51.793
We acknowledge their value but we never confuse value with exemption.
00:18:51.793 --> 00:18:53.360
Oh yeah.
00:18:53.360 --> 00:18:55.226
I appreciate all the work that you do.
00:18:55.226 --> 00:18:57.326
I really appreciate the revenue that you build.
00:18:57.326 --> 00:19:03.460
But that does not mean that you get to treat everybody else like dirt in this organization, because one of our core values is teamwork.
00:19:03.460 --> 00:19:14.026
I feel like the never confuse value with exemption needs to be a needlepoint, like hanging above something somewhere in an office.
00:19:14.026 --> 00:19:15.460
That's brilliant, I love that.
00:19:15.460 --> 00:19:15.625
Yeah.
00:19:15.625 --> 00:19:16.526
So that's results.
00:19:16.526 --> 00:19:16.826
Okay.
00:19:16.826 --> 00:19:20.460
And then respect correction has to be direct.
00:19:20.460 --> 00:19:20.759
Yep.
00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:21.460
Three things.
00:19:21.460 --> 00:19:22.726
Here's the behavior.
00:19:22.726 --> 00:19:26.526
Here's the impact and here's the expectation moving forward.
00:19:26.526 --> 00:19:27.593
We're not going to be vague about it.
00:19:27.593 --> 00:19:28.660
We're not going to be emotional.
00:19:28.660 --> 00:19:31.160
We're not going to be passive aggressive.
00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:32.026
Oh gosh.
00:19:32.026 --> 00:19:33.160
They just feed off of that.
00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:33.460
Yeah.
00:19:33.460 --> 00:19:34.460
Don't do that.
00:19:34.460 --> 00:19:36.726
Just be this is this is the issue that we're having.
00:19:36.726 --> 00:19:38.860
This is the impact it's having on our team.
00:19:38.860 --> 00:19:41.360
And this is what you're going to be doing moving forward.
00:19:41.360 --> 00:19:42.125
Yep.
00:19:42.125 --> 00:19:46.125
And then replication and this is where we've talked about how documentation is kindness.
00:19:46.125 --> 00:19:46.893
Yep.
00:19:46.893 --> 00:19:48.393
This is where documentation.
00:19:48.393 --> 00:19:51.293
I know that leaders hate it because sometimes they're like, it feels corporate.
00:19:51.293 --> 00:19:52.026
I don't want to do it.
00:19:52.026 --> 00:19:54.992
When you have a brilliant jerk, you have to have documentation.
00:19:54.992 --> 00:19:55.326
All right?
00:19:55.326 --> 00:19:57.293
Because it does three important things.
00:19:57.293 --> 00:20:02.692
It creates clarity, it creates consistency, and it removes any surprise that this brilliant jerk.
00:20:02.692 --> 00:20:04.492
I had no idea that you were upset with me.
00:20:04.492 --> 00:20:06.692
I had no idea that I wasn't performing.
00:20:06.692 --> 00:20:07.660
Oh yes we do.
00:20:07.660 --> 00:20:08.860
Here is your documentation.
00:20:08.860 --> 00:20:09.192
Yeah.
00:20:09.192 --> 00:20:11.925
Here's the ten emails in four whatever forms.
00:20:11.925 --> 00:20:12.293
Yes.
00:20:12.293 --> 00:20:16.860
Here's the meetings that we've had around how you have to coach, how you're talking to people.
00:20:16.860 --> 00:21:02.490
This is the conversation that we've had and that you need to share your client information with this other person so that they can help you on a project.
00:21:02.490 --> 00:21:12.423
If they're not doing the things, you document them, because then the employee knows what has been coached on what has been expected in a correction, and then what's happening next.
00:21:12.423 --> 00:21:13.289
And that's not cruel.
00:21:13.289 --> 00:21:16.789
It's respectful because sometimes you're like, I don't want to hurt that brilliant jerk's feelings.
00:21:16.789 --> 00:21:18.355
Yes you do.
00:21:18.355 --> 00:21:19.556
Yeah, you have to.
00:21:19.556 --> 00:21:20.490
That's how you have to fight them.
00:21:20.490 --> 00:21:21.355
Yeah.
00:21:21.355 --> 00:21:22.822
So you want to know the point of no return?
00:21:22.822 --> 00:21:23.389
Yes.
00:21:23.389 --> 00:21:24.690
Okay.
00:21:24.690 --> 00:21:27.623
Point of no return is not when someone makes a mistake.
00:21:27.623 --> 00:21:30.955
It is when they reject the accountability itself.
00:21:30.955 --> 00:21:32.690
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:32.690 --> 00:21:33.289
That's it.
00:21:33.289 --> 00:21:35.289
One hundred percent refusing ownership.
00:21:35.289 --> 00:21:38.222
Dismissive of your feedback, believing that the standards don't apply to them.
00:21:38.222 --> 00:21:38.955
Those three things.
00:21:38.955 --> 00:21:40.255
That is the point of no return.
00:21:40.255 --> 00:21:41.789
It is no longer a coaching issue.
00:21:41.789 --> 00:21:43.423
It is a values issue.
00:21:43.423 --> 00:21:52.623
And the moment someone believes that they are bigger than the culture, the culture starts shrinking around them one hundred percent, one hundred percent, one thousand percent, maybe.
00:21:52.623 --> 00:21:53.089
Yeah.
00:21:53.089 --> 00:22:07.123
So leaders may think that firing the brilliant jerk risks the business, but what actually risks the business is teaching the entire organization that values are negotiable because once trust collapses, performance eventually follows.
00:22:07.123 --> 00:22:08.190
And that's where you're quiet.
00:22:08.190 --> 00:22:09.190
Superstars are leaving.
00:22:09.190 --> 00:22:09.822
Everyone's leaving.
00:22:09.822 --> 00:22:12.755
You're like, I don't understand why anybody it's just it's just me and Jim.
00:22:12.755 --> 00:22:14.755
Why are why are we the only ones here?
00:22:14.755 --> 00:22:18.822
And it's like you say, eventually there that eventually thing is, is pretty quick.
00:22:18.822 --> 00:22:19.690
It's pretty quick.
00:22:19.690 --> 00:22:20.289
Yeah.
00:22:20.289 --> 00:22:22.423
And you, you start to see it fairly quickly.
00:22:22.423 --> 00:22:27.855
And if you've created an environment where people can speak up, they will tell you about the brilliant jerk.
00:22:27.855 --> 00:22:28.289
Correct.
00:22:28.289 --> 00:22:30.522
And if you and they really don't need to tell you.
00:22:30.522 --> 00:22:31.222
Josh.
00:22:31.222 --> 00:22:32.289
No. See it?
00:22:32.289 --> 00:22:33.056
Yes.
00:22:33.056 --> 00:22:38.322
Unless you're the brilliant jerk, in which case, this is why sometimes we work with coaches.
00:22:38.322 --> 00:22:40.322
I mean, I think I'm average intelligence.
00:22:40.322 --> 00:22:41.522
I am a jerk.
00:22:41.522 --> 00:22:42.322
Yeah.
00:22:42.322 --> 00:22:48.423
I we're going to do an episode of the average jerk here coming up, jerk or unassuming.
00:22:48.423 --> 00:22:50.722
Like sometimes we just don't realize when we're being a jerk.
00:22:50.722 --> 00:22:57.889
But this is this is someone who knows that they are assuming, you know, what that reminds me of is it's funny because we mentioned the Instagram stuff.
00:22:57.889 --> 00:23:09.722
When we get an Instagram post that typically reaches a certain level, yes, I send you the GIF of Steve Martin from the jerk of I'm Somebody now when he gets in the phone book.
00:23:11.655 --> 00:23:13.190
All right, so you want to talk about operations?
00:23:13.190 --> 00:23:14.255
Yeah, I would love to.
00:23:14.255 --> 00:23:14.490
Okay.
00:23:14.490 --> 00:23:15.089
Would love to.
00:23:15.089 --> 00:23:15.455
All right.
00:23:15.455 --> 00:23:19.655
So, you know, we talk about how that fear around firing that person is real.
00:23:19.655 --> 00:23:29.155
I mean, I think it can especially be real when you know, that person owns forty percent of the sales or the entire tech stack or how we prevent a machine from collapsing.
00:23:29.155 --> 00:23:32.955
So what is the operational roadmap for that cut?
00:23:34.889 --> 00:23:40.123
To me, the first thing, like when you're taking hostage, what do you do?
00:23:40.123 --> 00:23:42.923
You take stock of everything around you.
00:23:42.923 --> 00:23:48.289
So like, and what you're looking for is you're looking for that single point of failure.
00:23:48.289 --> 00:23:54.589
So like, to me, the first thing that I usually see with the brilliant jerk is some of those shadow shadow workflows.
00:23:54.589 --> 00:23:55.089
Oh yeah.
00:23:55.089 --> 00:23:57.822
They have their own how to.
00:23:57.822 --> 00:24:00.022
So you can't fire them.
00:24:00.022 --> 00:24:06.255
And to me, the way that I start to build it is I start to operationalize that.
00:24:06.255 --> 00:24:10.255
So the two reasons why they do the, the shadow workflows is.
00:24:10.255 --> 00:24:24.889
One is they can change processes for their own speed, their own good, their own whatever, and they don't care that them saving fifteen minutes caused Nancy in accounting to lose her mind for four and a half hours trying to find something.
00:24:24.889 --> 00:24:27.190
Um, the other thing though is I do see it.
00:24:27.190 --> 00:24:35.522
I do see it sometimes intentionally because what I like to call the smartest toddler, they're going to push boundaries just to see what they can get away with.
00:24:35.522 --> 00:24:37.022
How quickly can I get this done?
00:24:37.022 --> 00:24:38.089
And like, what are they?
00:24:38.089 --> 00:24:39.255
What are they like?
00:24:39.255 --> 00:24:41.222
I know I'm supposed to fill out this form.
00:24:41.222 --> 00:24:42.556
What are they willing to ignore?
00:24:42.556 --> 00:24:43.123
Yeah.
00:24:43.123 --> 00:24:54.222
Um, I worked with someone recently like that where, like, they would just ignore all the processes because they knew their boss would take it and he would be like, I'll fill this in for him.
00:24:54.222 --> 00:24:57.255
Um, yeah, just completely ignored it.
00:24:57.255 --> 00:25:03.490
So to me, it's identifying like the, the operationalizing that transition is the key to this.
00:25:03.490 --> 00:25:04.255
And there's six steps.
00:25:04.255 --> 00:25:06.556
Step one is the logic inventory.
00:25:06.556 --> 00:25:12.022
Identify the black boxes, like the tasks that they finish that no one else knows how to start.
00:25:12.022 --> 00:25:23.889
If it's someone that's in, like, whether it be a sales position or more of an operational, like they're doing the thing, they often try and find genuinely better, more innovative, innovative ways to do a job.
00:25:23.889 --> 00:25:28.789
But they're, they're gonna hide those little secrets for themselves.
00:25:28.789 --> 00:25:32.722
Um, and once again, they're trying to weaponize that innovation.
00:25:32.722 --> 00:25:49.190
So they're, and this is where like that collaboration versus competition episode we talked about, it's where it's tough because in a healthy company, innovation comes in a new SOP that helps everyone for the brilliant work that innovation is an insurance policy that they use to cover their.
00:25:49.190 --> 00:25:53.322
But, um, you have to hunt for those hidden upgrades.
00:25:53.322 --> 00:25:57.190
What are those things that they are doing that aren't on the books?
00:25:57.190 --> 00:25:57.889
Step two.
00:25:57.889 --> 00:25:59.490
The access inventory.
00:25:59.490 --> 00:26:04.389
So if you're getting ready to to chop this person, you got to look at what they have access of.
00:26:04.389 --> 00:26:12.755
And to me, this should be every single person because you do not know when someone may get a better offer and they want to leave tomorrow.
00:26:12.755 --> 00:26:13.556
Yeah.
00:26:13.556 --> 00:26:24.222
Um, every login, every API key, physical access point, you've got to have a way to change those master passwords during a sweaty ten minute conversation if you have to.
00:26:24.222 --> 00:26:24.955
Mhm.
00:26:24.955 --> 00:26:32.190
Um, the, the administrative quote unquote, owner trap is like, and I have seen this so many times.
00:26:32.190 --> 00:26:34.490
It was, it was so funny when I was at the truck dealership.
00:26:34.490 --> 00:26:35.022
Uh, huh.
00:26:35.022 --> 00:26:42.589
Um, there was one person that had access to the YouTube channel and he forgot the password.
00:26:42.589 --> 00:26:43.490
Yep.
00:26:43.490 --> 00:26:44.990
I'm like, what are you doing?
00:26:44.990 --> 00:26:45.755
Like, how did you.
00:26:45.755 --> 00:26:48.955
And he's like, well, I don't have that email address anymore.
00:26:48.955 --> 00:26:50.690
Oh my God.
00:26:50.690 --> 00:26:53.690
So yeah, there's like have multiple.
00:26:53.690 --> 00:26:57.190
You don't everyone doesn't need ownership, access to everything.
00:26:57.190 --> 00:26:59.490
No, but two or three people should have that.
00:26:59.490 --> 00:26:59.690
Yeah.
00:26:59.690 --> 00:27:01.490
Your website, your social media.
00:27:01.490 --> 00:27:02.155
Correct.
00:27:02.155 --> 00:27:02.423
Yeah.
00:27:02.423 --> 00:27:04.423
Two or three people need to have that.
00:27:04.423 --> 00:27:08.022
Um, or there should be a master admin account, something like that.
00:27:08.022 --> 00:27:11.355
That happens before you start getting rid of something like this.
00:27:11.355 --> 00:27:22.056
The other thing is too is if like with so many things going with two factor authentication anymore, you like, you have to realize that if it goes to their personal phone, you still may be locked out.
00:27:22.056 --> 00:27:26.623
So you need to realize what's tethered to a personal device of theirs.
00:27:26.623 --> 00:27:27.123
Yes.
00:27:27.123 --> 00:27:30.522
And make sure you migrate that to a shared authentication tool.
00:27:30.522 --> 00:27:31.289
Mhm.
00:27:31.289 --> 00:27:39.222
Um, deactivating Slack, email and physical fobs must be a synchronized operational move if you are pushing someone out the door.
00:27:39.222 --> 00:27:42.056
Um, this isn't like, uh, we fired them today.
00:27:42.056 --> 00:27:43.490
We'll take care of this tomorrow.
00:27:43.490 --> 00:27:44.423
No, immediately.
00:27:44.423 --> 00:27:49.722
By the time they leave the parking lot, you have wiped them from your from your corporate map?
00:27:49.722 --> 00:27:50.789
Yes.
00:27:50.789 --> 00:27:51.490
Like their.
00:27:51.490 --> 00:27:56.389
Like their car should not start and they no longer exist in your company.
00:27:56.389 --> 00:27:58.389
Now you lock it down as quickly as possible.
00:27:58.389 --> 00:28:01.655
And the reason why I say this is, this is the big thing.
00:28:01.655 --> 00:28:07.155
You should have this plan for every employee in your company before it gets to this point.
00:28:07.155 --> 00:28:08.522
Yeah, this is a standard thing.
00:28:08.522 --> 00:28:09.690
This is a standard thing.
00:28:09.690 --> 00:28:12.322
This isn't a hey, we're getting rid of Bob next week.
00:28:12.322 --> 00:28:15.190
No, this is something that you need to have this plan.
00:28:15.190 --> 00:28:15.589
Yep.
00:28:15.589 --> 00:28:18.289
Um, the other thing is relationship mapping.
00:28:18.289 --> 00:28:27.990
Who owns the client relationship in the client's eyes, the brand or the the person?
00:28:27.990 --> 00:28:30.455
If it's the person, you got a problem.
00:28:30.455 --> 00:28:30.690
Yeah.
00:28:30.690 --> 00:28:35.123
If it's a brand, you've, you've, you're, you're, you're probably okay.
00:28:35.123 --> 00:28:38.155
Are the like, do the clients only talk to this person?
00:28:38.155 --> 00:28:38.722
Yep.
00:28:38.722 --> 00:28:47.955
I've seen this in so many cases where, where they're like the, the billing person is like, hey, I need to call him about this check and I'll do it.
00:28:47.955 --> 00:28:48.522
Yeah, I'll do it.
00:28:48.522 --> 00:28:49.255
I'll take care of it.
00:28:49.255 --> 00:28:50.889
I wanted to talk to them anyways.
00:28:50.889 --> 00:28:54.722
No no no no no. Let let the billing person call them.
00:28:54.722 --> 00:29:02.056
Um, and to me, like if I've got a, someone else is willing to call my clients for me about something and let them know something great.
00:29:02.056 --> 00:29:02.423
Yeah.
00:29:02.423 --> 00:29:03.322
Wonderful.
00:29:03.322 --> 00:29:04.923
As long as someone that I trust.
00:29:04.923 --> 00:29:05.522
Awesome.
00:29:05.522 --> 00:29:06.789
Love that.
00:29:06.789 --> 00:29:19.190
The other thing is, is what internal departments departments are tethered to this person who relies on them for approvals, data, or unwritten permissions like baseball has all sorts of unwritten rules.
00:29:19.190 --> 00:29:21.255
What are the unwritten rules of this?
00:29:21.255 --> 00:29:27.690
Um, because the problem is, is there's, there's always that potential churn or stagnation that's going to happen the moment they're removed.
00:29:27.690 --> 00:29:28.123
Yes.
00:29:28.123 --> 00:29:33.556
So you need to take a damage assessment of what's going to happen and what you need to do to move forward.
00:29:33.556 --> 00:29:34.190
I like that.
00:29:34.190 --> 00:29:39.623
If you've got this thought of they have forty percent of our clients.
00:29:39.623 --> 00:29:44.190
You have to realize what like it's not just, hey, we fired them.
00:29:44.190 --> 00:29:46.222
What do we do now?
00:29:46.222 --> 00:29:48.289
It's hey, okay.
00:29:48.289 --> 00:29:54.822
Their their car may be on the entrance ramp to the freeway, but now you're calling the clients to let them know what's going on.
00:29:54.822 --> 00:29:55.355
Absolutely.
00:29:55.355 --> 00:29:57.955
And you have to be you have to have that in there.
00:29:57.955 --> 00:30:00.589
Um, like I said, the shadow workflow search, that's step four.
00:30:00.589 --> 00:30:05.423
Look for spreadsheets or personal apps, not in the central SOP.
00:30:05.423 --> 00:30:13.056
We've all seen the trackers, the logs, the lists, um, the unauthorized tooling.
00:30:13.056 --> 00:30:18.889
You're looking for Zapier stuff, Trello, Slack channels that they're like, right.
00:30:18.889 --> 00:30:30.222
Um, physical notebook, sticky notes, local word docs that contain the nuance and logic that if then scenarios that may not be like in your library.
00:30:30.222 --> 00:30:47.455
The other thing that I have seen is email redirection, where people have, like, they've got some auto forwards from specific clients, they've got, you need to have your IT people go in and look and say, hey, are there any auto forwarding on this?
00:30:47.455 --> 00:30:48.355
Yeah.
00:30:48.355 --> 00:30:51.190
Um, because that once again.
00:30:51.190 --> 00:30:52.423
Now here's the problem.
00:30:52.423 --> 00:30:56.522
We, we all talk about what happens when we get rid of the brilliant jerk.
00:30:56.522 --> 00:31:02.056
There are forty percent or they're, they're the guy, they're the person out in the warehouse that that moves the most stuff.
00:31:02.056 --> 00:31:02.955
Yeah.
00:31:02.955 --> 00:31:09.589
Um, you have to be ready to once again, I'm going to call this capacity triage.
00:31:09.589 --> 00:31:12.623
We talked in the last episode about stopping the bleeding.
00:31:12.623 --> 00:31:13.690
Yeah.
00:31:13.690 --> 00:31:15.222
Like high performance.
00:31:15.222 --> 00:31:17.022
They often do three things.
00:31:17.022 --> 00:31:21.589
They distribute the mastery audit findings across the team.
00:31:21.589 --> 00:31:24.155
So you're going to look at the must do problems.
00:31:24.155 --> 00:31:27.222
You're going to look at the can wait problems.
00:31:27.222 --> 00:31:31.423
Twenty percent of the work typically generates eighty percent of the value.
00:31:31.423 --> 00:31:33.855
Let the ego things go by the wayside.
00:31:33.855 --> 00:31:34.056
Yeah.
00:31:34.056 --> 00:31:35.490
You don't need them new, right?
00:31:35.490 --> 00:31:39.822
Like if let's talk warehouse, it's someone that's super productive in the warehouse.
00:31:39.822 --> 00:31:43.056
If the warehouse doesn't get swept up for a week.
00:31:43.056 --> 00:31:44.022
Okay.
00:31:44.022 --> 00:31:44.423
Yeah.
00:31:44.423 --> 00:31:55.389
Um, you you have to realize that you are taking a large burden from someone and you're putting it on the remaining people there.
00:31:55.389 --> 00:31:58.789
There's an interim load that these people are going to have to bear.
00:31:59.889 --> 00:32:05.923
You have to be honest with them about it, and you have to be like, look, you're working harder short term.
00:32:05.923 --> 00:32:08.522
So we have a healthy environment.
00:32:08.522 --> 00:32:13.089
Long term, we got rid of this giant pain in your ass.
00:32:13.089 --> 00:32:15.722
We got rid of, let's say it's a warehouse environment.
00:32:15.722 --> 00:32:17.322
This guy did.
00:32:17.322 --> 00:32:20.955
If there's ten people in there, this guy does thirty percent of the work.
00:32:20.955 --> 00:32:22.389
But he was the bully.
00:32:22.389 --> 00:32:24.855
Yeah, he's the one that would stuff people in lockers.
00:32:24.855 --> 00:32:27.955
He would happily share the workload one hundred percent.
00:32:27.955 --> 00:32:29.855
And they're gonna thank you for it.
00:32:29.855 --> 00:32:31.955
Usually they they will.
00:32:31.955 --> 00:32:33.990
But you have to address that with them.
00:32:33.990 --> 00:32:37.889
And you have to say, look, I know you're going to have to work harder for this.
00:32:37.889 --> 00:32:40.955
Like I want to find the person that's going to be the right fit for this.
00:32:40.955 --> 00:32:44.289
And some people may say, no, we're actually happy to be able to do our job.
00:32:44.289 --> 00:32:44.522
Yeah.
00:32:44.522 --> 00:32:45.889
Because they weren't letting us.
00:32:45.889 --> 00:32:48.022
Oh, I've seen that before too.
00:32:48.022 --> 00:32:49.722
The last piece of this is.
00:32:49.722 --> 00:32:52.089
I hate the rebound hire.
00:32:52.089 --> 00:32:54.190
Oh, do I hate the rebound hire?
00:32:54.190 --> 00:33:02.222
Um, because once again, it it's it's like, I love the, the parables between work and like dating or relationships.
00:33:02.222 --> 00:33:05.089
Yeah, this is a really good one because there's so many of them.
00:33:05.089 --> 00:33:07.222
Like everyone's gonna do the rebound hire.
00:33:07.222 --> 00:33:07.722
Yeah.
00:33:07.722 --> 00:33:11.355
Um, and so their resume looks cute.
00:33:11.355 --> 00:33:13.490
Um, their resume has a nice smile.
00:33:13.490 --> 00:33:15.655
Their resume held the door open for you.
00:33:15.655 --> 00:33:16.722
You hired a marshmallow?
00:33:16.722 --> 00:33:18.089
Yes.
00:33:18.089 --> 00:33:18.855
Good job.
00:33:20.722 --> 00:33:21.722
You hired Pollyanna.
00:33:21.722 --> 00:33:23.623
You hired a marshmallow.
00:33:23.623 --> 00:33:25.923
This person's never gonna tell you if something's wrong.
00:33:25.923 --> 00:33:28.355
They may not know what they're doing, but you're like.
00:33:28.355 --> 00:33:29.855
I just need someone with a pulse.
00:33:29.855 --> 00:33:30.923
No, you do not.
00:33:30.923 --> 00:33:33.289
No, you do not let your team.
00:33:33.289 --> 00:33:41.623
Sometimes it's really important to have your team help you figure out what that next hire is going to be one hundred percent, because I'm a big proponent of.
00:33:41.623 --> 00:33:47.123
And it's interesting, like it's a tough tightrope to walk.
00:33:47.123 --> 00:33:51.722
When you talked earlier about like you're creating SOPs around someone.
00:33:51.722 --> 00:34:00.190
Yeah, it's a tough tightrope to walk to, creating SOPs around someone, but also making sure you've got the right people doing the right jobs.
00:34:00.190 --> 00:34:00.822
Yeah.
00:34:00.822 --> 00:34:07.056
Um, because there's so many cases where I'm like, hey, you're a little bit more geared towards this and you're a little bit geared more towards that.
00:34:07.056 --> 00:34:11.623
I want to make sure you guys are geared a little bit more towards those things.
00:34:11.623 --> 00:34:23.023
There is a difference between that, though, and working around the brilliant jerk, because none of the things that you should be working around should be cultural or structural.
00:34:23.023 --> 00:34:24.190
They just shouldn't.
00:34:24.190 --> 00:34:24.423
Yeah.
00:34:24.423 --> 00:34:33.090
And I think it's okay to give yourself a little bit of time to stabilize and figure out what do you really need before you just go hire the next person?
00:34:33.090 --> 00:34:33.923
One hundred percent.
00:34:33.923 --> 00:34:34.322
Yeah.
00:34:34.322 --> 00:34:36.822
Don't like because everyone's going to hire the next person.
00:34:36.822 --> 00:34:38.990
And what, what do they think they're going to hire?
00:34:38.990 --> 00:34:41.056
They're going to hire the person that they just fired.
00:34:41.056 --> 00:34:41.722
That's it.
00:34:41.722 --> 00:34:43.289
I need a brilliant non jerk.
00:34:43.289 --> 00:34:45.289
And it's like, let's take a minute.
00:34:45.289 --> 00:34:50.422
Maybe you have that person in your organization already and you don't need you've got quiet superstars.
00:34:50.422 --> 00:34:53.955
Let's elevate them and let's hire some people at the lower level.
00:34:53.955 --> 00:34:57.690
You don't always need to hire in at the same level that you that you let go.
00:34:57.690 --> 00:34:59.056
No, you got to think about that.
00:34:59.056 --> 00:35:05.755
This is where you're truly strategic and you're not just, you know, it's not last call at the bar and you need someone.
00:35:05.755 --> 00:35:07.022
And so many people hire like that.
00:35:07.022 --> 00:35:07.422
They do.
00:35:07.422 --> 00:35:08.989
Almost everyone hires like that.
00:35:08.989 --> 00:35:09.355
Yeah.
00:35:09.355 --> 00:35:10.255
No one hundred percent.
00:35:10.255 --> 00:35:11.489
You pulse warm.
00:35:11.489 --> 00:35:12.222
Yes.
00:35:12.222 --> 00:35:15.822
And the other problem is too, is they hire someone that they get along with.
00:35:15.822 --> 00:35:18.822
So they essentially hire themselves, which sometimes is great.
00:35:18.822 --> 00:35:20.455
And other times is not a good idea at the time.
00:35:20.455 --> 00:35:23.355
It's not a good idea for what I hire myself.
00:35:23.355 --> 00:35:26.089
No, no, no. Can you imagine?
00:35:26.089 --> 00:35:28.089
No. I am difficult to manage.
00:35:28.089 --> 00:35:29.655
Same, same.
00:35:29.655 --> 00:35:30.655
I'm just difficult.
00:35:30.655 --> 00:35:31.489
Not even to manage.
00:35:31.489 --> 00:35:31.955
Just.
00:35:31.955 --> 00:35:33.389
Just plain difficult.
00:35:33.389 --> 00:35:34.989
You spent a year locked in a room with me.
00:35:34.989 --> 00:35:36.556
You know, this, um.
00:35:36.556 --> 00:35:37.022
To me.
00:35:37.022 --> 00:35:43.322
So once again, once you get to that cut phase, the post, cut recovery, manage that tip, you're going to have the triage phase.
00:35:43.322 --> 00:35:47.055
Empower the quiet superstars, the no blame window.
00:35:47.055 --> 00:35:48.855
Things are going to get screwed up in that first week.
00:35:48.855 --> 00:35:49.322
Oh, gosh.
00:35:49.322 --> 00:35:49.855
Yeah.
00:35:49.855 --> 00:35:51.155
People are figuring stuff out.
00:35:51.155 --> 00:35:53.389
People are finding the shadow workflows.
00:35:53.389 --> 00:35:54.355
You have to make it.
00:35:54.355 --> 00:35:57.022
So once again, I hate to say it's a safe space.
00:35:57.022 --> 00:35:59.555
You have to make it so people can say, look, we've got a problem.
00:35:59.555 --> 00:35:59.755
Yeah.
00:35:59.755 --> 00:36:02.922
Because you may have Russian nesting dolls of crap that you got to deal with.
00:36:02.922 --> 00:36:04.155
Correct, correct.
00:36:04.155 --> 00:36:05.989
And that's just it's terrible.
00:36:05.989 --> 00:36:08.689
So you have to make sure that you work through that.
00:36:08.689 --> 00:36:12.389
Um, the piece that I like is the marketing integrity through this.
00:36:12.389 --> 00:36:13.689
Ah, yes.
00:36:13.689 --> 00:36:19.422
To your clients direct is kind blank is no longer with the company.
00:36:19.422 --> 00:36:25.622
We are taking this opportunity to restructure your account to a team based model for better support.
00:36:25.622 --> 00:36:27.622
As long as you're doing that, great.
00:36:27.622 --> 00:36:30.722
Yeah, they could have been best friends with whoever it is.
00:36:30.722 --> 00:36:31.722
And you know what?
00:36:31.722 --> 00:36:34.922
You may still lose their business, but what?
00:36:34.922 --> 00:36:42.755
From what I have found, the brilliant jerk companies aren't typically buying from just the person?
00:36:42.755 --> 00:36:44.955
No, they're buying from the company.
00:36:44.955 --> 00:36:52.955
You offer something that they like, as long as you address them quickly and say, hey, we're looking forward to this new chapter.
00:36:52.955 --> 00:36:54.322
They'll typically stay on board.
00:36:54.322 --> 00:37:05.855
Oh, and I will say too, when you are a business that does business with other business owners, they're really understanding of this issue because they're probably dealing with it or have dealt with it in the past too.
00:37:05.855 --> 00:37:06.722
And they're proud of you.
00:37:06.722 --> 00:37:10.189
They are like, I'm so glad you did that.
00:37:10.189 --> 00:37:13.455
I wish I could be like you someday when I grow up.
00:37:13.455 --> 00:37:17.689
The other thing that I want to cover real quick, too, is that when it comes time to that cut piece, yeah.
00:37:17.689 --> 00:37:20.989
Um, we're going to go back to the creepy, calm execution.
00:37:20.989 --> 00:37:22.322
Um, swift and deliberate.
00:37:22.322 --> 00:37:22.589
Yes.
00:37:22.589 --> 00:37:26.322
Most brilliant jerks work on escalation.
00:37:26.322 --> 00:37:33.355
They're going to the they escalate it and they escalate it and they escalate it until you're finally like, this is not a hill I'm dying on.
00:37:33.355 --> 00:37:41.722
If you allow them to escalate or if you, I guess I would say if you go along on that escalator ride, it's not going to end well for anyone.
00:37:41.722 --> 00:37:43.322
No. Stay grounded.
00:37:43.322 --> 00:37:45.489
Just swift fast.
00:37:45.489 --> 00:37:48.889
We've talked about how you fired people so fast they can't even get their stuff packed up.
00:37:48.889 --> 00:37:49.089
Yeah.
00:37:49.089 --> 00:37:50.289
Pretty much.
00:37:50.289 --> 00:37:51.022
I've learned.
00:37:51.022 --> 00:37:55.622
I've learned from doing it wrong how to do it really efficiently.
00:37:55.622 --> 00:37:57.922
So like, here's my question.
00:37:57.922 --> 00:38:02.689
Why do like why some managers like managing the unmanageable?
00:38:02.689 --> 00:38:04.355
Like, what do they see?
00:38:04.355 --> 00:38:05.822
Like, what do they see in that?
00:38:05.822 --> 00:38:07.922
Like, how do you look at that?
00:38:07.922 --> 00:38:09.522
They're like happy hostages.
00:38:09.522 --> 00:38:14.722
I mean, I. It's true.
00:38:14.722 --> 00:38:16.055
Um, yeah, no, I get it.
00:38:16.055 --> 00:38:20.322
I think that some leaders unconsciously they attach meaning to being needed in a crisis.
00:38:20.322 --> 00:38:21.955
So, you know.
00:38:21.955 --> 00:38:22.889
Oh yeah.
00:38:22.889 --> 00:38:23.422
Yeah.
00:38:23.422 --> 00:38:31.789
No, I see that it may be like I, I can, it may be a brilliant jerk, but it's my brilliant jerk and I know how to manage that person.
00:38:31.789 --> 00:38:34.722
So it's yeah, it's them just being needed.
00:38:34.722 --> 00:38:34.955
Yeah.
00:38:34.955 --> 00:38:35.222
It is.
00:38:35.222 --> 00:38:36.055
I need to feel needed.
00:38:36.055 --> 00:38:39.889
And I think that it's, it's easy to be like, well, since I'm needed, that means I'm important.
00:38:39.889 --> 00:38:41.089
That means that I'm a good leader.
00:38:41.089 --> 00:38:42.189
No, that's not true.
00:38:42.189 --> 00:38:45.455
Healthy leadership is not managing emotional volatility.
00:38:45.455 --> 00:38:48.289
It's not protecting that person's dysfunction.
00:38:48.289 --> 00:38:50.889
And it's not constantly cleaning up after one person.
00:38:50.889 --> 00:38:52.455
That's not healthy leadership.
00:38:52.455 --> 00:38:54.389
No, no. Yeah.
00:38:54.389 --> 00:39:00.489
So I mean, you healthy leadership builds a system that doesn't revolve around emotional exceptions.
00:39:00.489 --> 00:39:01.555
No it's funny.
00:39:01.555 --> 00:39:10.889
It's funny as you say that because I've seen it in so many cases where leaders are like, hey, I'm a manager, I'm managing these problems.
00:39:10.889 --> 00:39:12.955
So therefore I should have a job tomorrow.
00:39:12.955 --> 00:39:13.589
Yeah.
00:39:13.589 --> 00:39:18.989
Um, no. If the brilliant jerk goes away, what am I going to do all day?
00:39:18.989 --> 00:39:23.455
No no no no no no no no no no. I mean, I don't know about you personally.
00:39:23.455 --> 00:39:25.889
I like less of that type of work.
00:39:25.889 --> 00:39:27.055
I do too.
00:39:27.055 --> 00:39:28.989
I like to like let's work on client issues.
00:39:28.989 --> 00:39:29.989
Let's work on growth.
00:39:29.989 --> 00:39:39.189
Let's work on, you know, innovation and technology, not managing somebody's emotions around, you know, getting their feelings hurt.
00:39:39.189 --> 00:39:42.789
You know, everybody else doesn't understand how important they are, right?
00:39:42.789 --> 00:39:45.989
No, they're super important, especially to them.
00:39:45.989 --> 00:39:49.455
Um, cost of replacement versus cost of retention.
00:39:49.455 --> 00:39:50.689
So let's do the math.
00:39:50.689 --> 00:39:51.022
Yeah.
00:39:51.022 --> 00:39:57.389
Hiring a couple level two or three performers or versus the one level ten jerk.
00:39:57.389 --> 00:40:01.822
I mean, I will always take level two to three performers versus one brilliant jerk any day.
00:40:01.822 --> 00:40:08.455
And I will say, you know, once that brilliant jerk leaves healthy, people will often step up once that tension is gone.
00:40:08.455 --> 00:40:09.789
I was just going to say do that.
00:40:09.789 --> 00:40:12.555
Two or three is typically able like one.
00:40:12.555 --> 00:40:23.555
Once the shade of that overhang of the brilliant jerk, those those two to three performers typically blossom and you get a couple of five sixs pretty quickly.
00:40:23.555 --> 00:40:23.955
You do.
00:40:23.955 --> 00:40:27.922
And I think, you know, leaders overestimate the cost of firing that jerk.
00:40:27.922 --> 00:40:32.222
And they underestimate the cost of keeping them.
00:40:32.222 --> 00:40:36.222
It's hard because the I mean, the business usually survives the exit.
00:40:36.222 --> 00:40:39.289
The culture rarely survives the protection of the brilliant jerk.
00:40:39.289 --> 00:40:40.989
You want to kill your business culture?
00:40:40.989 --> 00:40:42.589
Keep that person employed.
00:40:43.922 --> 00:40:48.655
Um, like, do you have a no hero policy where you like?
00:40:50.289 --> 00:40:53.922
How do you keep from having the brilliant jerk?
00:40:53.922 --> 00:41:01.055
And I mean, like when I hear the no hero policy, all I picture is like Superman walking in the door and you hear the da da da da.
00:41:01.055 --> 00:41:04.589
And then you pull the cape away and suddenly Superman walks out like head in hand.
00:41:05.689 --> 00:41:08.489
So, I mean, the goal of leadership, again, it's not to create heroes.
00:41:08.489 --> 00:41:12.055
We want to create systems where success can be repeated.
00:41:12.055 --> 00:41:17.155
So yeah, you don't want a company that's fragile because if only one person knows how it works, your company is fragile.
00:41:17.155 --> 00:41:18.489
It's not going to survive.
00:41:18.489 --> 00:41:20.122
I don't want heroes.
00:41:20.122 --> 00:41:22.855
No, I want every day good stuff.
00:41:22.855 --> 00:41:23.389
Yeah.
00:41:23.389 --> 00:41:26.689
If you need a hero, like, typically, like, think of this.
00:41:26.689 --> 00:41:28.089
Think of, like, all the Marvel movies.
00:41:28.089 --> 00:41:31.489
Even though I haven't ever seen any of them, I still kind of know the premise.
00:41:31.489 --> 00:41:32.255
Something happens.
00:41:32.255 --> 00:41:33.722
We need a couple of superheroes.
00:41:33.722 --> 00:41:34.055
Yes.
00:41:34.055 --> 00:41:36.689
No, no, no. I don't want to need a couple of superheroes.
00:41:36.689 --> 00:41:39.855
I want a life that just gets as good every day.
00:41:39.855 --> 00:41:41.955
Yeah, we like consistency.
00:41:41.955 --> 00:41:44.889
Talk about the three C's of leadership, clarity, consistency, and care.
00:41:44.889 --> 00:41:46.189
Let's just have those three things.
00:41:46.189 --> 00:41:47.422
I don't need heroes.
00:41:50.922 --> 00:41:53.289
I like this, I like this.
00:41:53.289 --> 00:41:54.322
A couple of quick takeaways.
00:41:54.322 --> 00:42:00.189
Values versus results to me higher results plus low values.
00:42:00.189 --> 00:42:01.355
Get them the hell out of there.
00:42:01.355 --> 00:42:03.289
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:42:03.289 --> 00:42:04.955
We protect the standard, not the star.
00:42:04.955 --> 00:42:10.522
So if someone's behavior contradicts the values, the longer they stay, the weaker the culture gets.
00:42:10.522 --> 00:42:11.355
Yep.
00:42:11.355 --> 00:42:13.089
Audit the shadow SOPs.
00:42:13.089 --> 00:42:17.055
If only one person knows how to do x, x is your number one risk.
00:42:17.055 --> 00:42:19.422
Yeah, and document before you decide.
00:42:19.422 --> 00:42:23.855
So clear coaching and correction remove the emotion from that cut of that person.
00:42:23.855 --> 00:42:24.189
Yeah.
00:42:24.189 --> 00:42:28.122
Have have the paper we talked a couple episodes ago about that paperwork for it.
00:42:28.122 --> 00:42:29.322
Have you built that yet.
00:42:29.322 --> 00:42:31.222
Um, working on it.
00:42:31.222 --> 00:42:32.622
Directness is the only path.
00:42:32.622 --> 00:42:35.855
If your numbers are a level ten or your behaviors a level two?
00:42:35.855 --> 00:42:36.655
I can't scale that.
00:42:36.655 --> 00:42:36.955
Yeah.
00:42:36.955 --> 00:42:39.489
And I would say the last one I think is important.
00:42:39.489 --> 00:42:41.655
It's watch the room, not the results.
00:42:41.655 --> 00:42:42.689
Oh, you can see it.
00:42:42.689 --> 00:42:43.022
Yeah.
00:42:43.022 --> 00:42:55.355
So when the real performance metric, it is the reaction of the team when that person walks in, if that person walks into the room and all of the oxygen gets sucked out, you're like, mm, you might have a backdraft here.
00:42:55.355 --> 00:42:56.122
I've seen it.
00:42:56.122 --> 00:42:59.455
Where, where you have the best meetings where that person's not there.
00:42:59.455 --> 00:43:01.689
And you're like, oh, huh.
00:43:01.689 --> 00:43:06.222
Yeah, Bob hasn't been here for the two meetings and these have been really productive.
00:43:06.222 --> 00:43:07.789
Bob's the common denominator.
00:43:07.789 --> 00:43:09.789
Oh, why do we all feel sick to our stomach?
00:43:09.789 --> 00:43:11.222
Oh, Bob's coming to this meeting.
00:43:11.222 --> 00:43:12.189
Yeah.
00:43:12.189 --> 00:43:14.289
Can you ever coach a jerk into a team player?
00:43:14.289 --> 00:43:18.489
You can, but only if the issue is awareness and not arrogance.
00:43:18.489 --> 00:43:20.455
Yeah, because there are some people that are just not aware.
00:43:20.455 --> 00:43:23.689
And if you bring that to their attention, they're going to change.
00:43:23.689 --> 00:43:25.489
I have seen that happen.
00:43:25.489 --> 00:43:27.455
Yeah, I have too.
00:43:27.455 --> 00:43:31.122
Um, should you tell the rest of the team why they why the brilliant jerk was fired?
00:43:31.122 --> 00:43:33.455
You can be like, hey, fired the jerk.
00:43:34.689 --> 00:43:40.255
Yes, but professionally, you are not going to share the private details of how things went down.
00:43:40.255 --> 00:43:41.755
You're just going to reinforce the values.
00:43:41.755 --> 00:43:46.289
You know, Bob is no longer with us because he didn't align with the culture and the values that we have in our organization.
00:43:46.289 --> 00:43:50.855
And moving forward, this is what we're going to ensure to do to ensure that we have good culture.
00:43:50.855 --> 00:43:53.989
Yeah, no, I and that sounds like you've rehearsed that.
00:43:53.989 --> 00:44:00.555
I have a lot and I've coached other people on this is what we're gonna say, I feel.
00:44:00.555 --> 00:44:12.422
And then if they start, if they start going in a different direction, I usually put my hand like I've never put it on their face, but like, I may just like steady or I'll just step in front and continue like I am sometimes that rude.
00:44:12.422 --> 00:44:14.755
Or it's like, no, no, no, I'm here to protect you from a lawsuit.
00:44:14.755 --> 00:44:16.355
Don't, don't be dumb.
00:44:16.355 --> 00:44:21.955
Um, what's the one red flag during an interview for a future brilliant jerk?
00:44:21.955 --> 00:44:28.622
Oh, to me, it's like whenever someone talks about former employers, like incompetent, bad, something like that.
00:44:28.622 --> 00:44:30.889
I instantly are like, they couldn't keep up.
00:44:30.889 --> 00:44:31.689
Absolutely.
00:44:31.689 --> 00:44:33.122
Um, that right there.
00:44:33.122 --> 00:44:34.522
They didn't see my value.
00:44:34.522 --> 00:44:39.089
When someone says that about their former employer, I'm like, oh, right, right.
00:44:39.089 --> 00:44:41.289
They didn't see your value.
00:44:43.089 --> 00:44:43.389
Yeah.
00:44:43.389 --> 00:44:44.089
The other one.
00:44:44.089 --> 00:44:47.355
Sometimes you can just see like the ego walk through the door.
00:44:47.355 --> 00:44:47.955
Yeah.
00:44:47.955 --> 00:44:51.989
Um, and that to like the ego in so many cases is the brilliant jerk.
00:44:51.989 --> 00:44:52.455
Yeah.
00:44:52.455 --> 00:44:56.922
Um, it just truly is, but don't mistake that for, you know, that silent superstar.
00:44:56.922 --> 00:45:01.789
No. So like, there's a very different way of saying they didn't see my value versus they didn't see my value.
00:45:01.789 --> 00:45:04.622
Like you've got to be able to kind of tell the difference.
00:45:04.622 --> 00:45:15.122
And there is a most the silent superstar that they didn't see the value, um, will typically say it wasn't a fit or it wasn't something like that.
00:45:15.122 --> 00:45:16.822
They're not going to be like those idiots.
00:45:16.822 --> 00:45:17.922
No, they will not.
00:45:17.922 --> 00:45:20.789
I loved what I did, I just didn't like where I did it.
00:45:20.789 --> 00:45:20.989
Right?
00:45:20.989 --> 00:45:24.289
That's usually when someone says that you go, oh, yep.
00:45:24.289 --> 00:45:24.855
Okay.
00:45:24.855 --> 00:45:25.122
Yeah.
00:45:25.122 --> 00:45:26.789
Wonderful, wonderful.
00:45:26.789 --> 00:45:29.589
Um, next week.
00:45:29.589 --> 00:45:31.122
Yeah.
00:45:31.122 --> 00:45:34.389
Most of our podcasts right around forty, forty, forty five minutes.
00:45:34.389 --> 00:45:37.122
Some are thirty, thirty five minutes.
00:45:37.122 --> 00:45:40.289
We're going to talk about the sweaty ten minute conversation.
00:45:40.289 --> 00:45:42.589
We're going to talk for longer than ten minutes about that, aren't we?
00:45:42.589 --> 00:45:44.455
We are, we are.
00:45:44.455 --> 00:45:48.455
Um, I will make sure that next week the studio is nice and cool.
00:45:48.455 --> 00:45:48.789
Okay.
00:45:48.789 --> 00:45:51.322
So that way we don't walk out of here with pit stains.
00:45:51.322 --> 00:45:54.089
Um, so yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna try and avoid that.
00:45:54.089 --> 00:45:55.289
Do us a favor.
00:45:55.289 --> 00:45:57.322
Business fix podcast dot com.
00:45:57.322 --> 00:45:58.689
Make sure you stop by.
00:45:58.689 --> 00:46:02.389
We'd love to hear your suggestions for another episode.
00:46:02.389 --> 00:46:03.922
As always, do us a favor.
00:46:03.922 --> 00:46:06.489
Take care of yourself if you can take care of someone else too.
00:46:06.489 --> 00:46:09.789
We will see you very, very soon.