Trust Isn’t Blind Faith: How Leaders Build It Without Getting Burned

WEBVTT
00:00:46.373 --> 00:00:51.940
There is a certain amount of just trust you have to just fling out into the world.
00:00:51.940 --> 00:00:52.640
Yeah.
00:00:54.506 --> 00:00:59.972
The difficulty in your voice, they're like, oh yeah, there it is.
00:00:59.972 --> 00:01:03.606
You have to give trust to earn trust.
00:01:04.605 --> 00:01:06.840
Most of the time, yeah.
00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:09.105
But when does that become blind faith.
00:01:09.105 --> 00:01:12.173
And you're just playing a lottery when you're driving your car.
00:01:13.873 --> 00:01:15.305
Oh, there's got to be more to this.
00:01:15.305 --> 00:01:16.240
Stay tuned.
00:01:19.105 --> 00:01:20.840
She's the CEO.
00:01:20.840 --> 00:01:23.006
He's the marketing and operations guy.
00:01:23.006 --> 00:01:26.439
If it's broken, you need the business fix.
00:01:28.306 --> 00:01:31.772
Every day I get in my car, and I trust that everyone's going to do exactly what they're supposed to do.
00:01:31.772 --> 00:01:32.873
They don't.
00:01:32.873 --> 00:01:34.073
Most of the time.
00:01:34.073 --> 00:01:36.840
No. But see what's interesting about that?
00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:46.772
Ah, see, I this is a great way to start this out because to me as a motorcyclist, oh, you should have absolutely no trust of anyone.
00:01:46.772 --> 00:01:54.372
I don't, but what it is, is I am constantly looking at what people are doing.
00:01:54.372 --> 00:01:59.640
So. And I mean, I'm in milliseconds deciding if I can trust that car or not.
00:01:59.640 --> 00:01:59.872
Yeah.
00:01:59.872 --> 00:02:01.073
Continuous monitoring.
00:02:01.073 --> 00:02:02.073
Yes.
00:02:02.073 --> 00:02:05.573
Um, in milliseconds, I'm like, okay, are they weaving?
00:02:05.573 --> 00:02:10.939
Are they I'm looking for those telltale signs of texting, of watching videos.
00:02:10.939 --> 00:02:12.772
I'm like in my mirrors.
00:02:12.772 --> 00:02:15.039
You have to how close is the person behind me?
00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:18.640
Because I do not, I would not look good as the center of a sandwich.
00:02:18.640 --> 00:02:19.640
No it's not.
00:02:19.640 --> 00:02:20.506
That's not an option.
00:02:20.506 --> 00:02:21.605
Not a good look.
00:02:21.605 --> 00:02:24.740
So it's hard on the podcast too is, uh.
00:02:27.140 --> 00:02:32.439
There's some people that would probably be a bigger fan without me, but I think we've, we've, we've built this.
00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:39.506
But to me, so it is, it's that constant, like some people would say it's blind faith and other drivers.
00:02:39.506 --> 00:02:46.240
But really to me it is it is paying attention very intentionally.
00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:46.506
Yeah.
00:02:46.506 --> 00:02:47.740
It's good management.
00:02:47.740 --> 00:02:48.205
Yeah.
00:02:48.205 --> 00:02:51.105
It's management, it's management self-awareness.
00:02:51.105 --> 00:02:55.606
Um, and it's awareness of just the, the idiots around me.
00:02:55.606 --> 00:02:56.140
Yes.
00:02:56.140 --> 00:02:59.506
Um, because they, there are some of them.
00:02:59.506 --> 00:03:00.006
Yeah.
00:03:00.006 --> 00:03:03.840
Um, there's a large majority of the population that probably shouldn't be.
00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:07.272
I am, I am really looking forward towards autonomous vehicles.
00:03:07.272 --> 00:03:07.873
Mhm.
00:03:07.873 --> 00:03:11.439
Although autonomous vehicles typically can't recognize motorcycles either.
00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:12.706
That's a yes.
00:03:12.706 --> 00:03:18.240
I noticed that Tesla ran over two motorcyclists that way nonetheless.
00:03:20.439 --> 00:03:21.272
Just two.
00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:25.740
That's a hell of a way to introduce a topic.
00:03:25.740 --> 00:03:28.006
It's not it's not outside the standard deviation.
00:03:28.006 --> 00:03:31.040
So they don't no, no, no it's not.
00:03:31.040 --> 00:03:34.406
Um, but we, we know how it happened and why it happened.
00:03:34.406 --> 00:03:37.439
Um, trust is something we use a lot in business.
00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:39.873
Um, it's often misunderstood.
00:03:39.873 --> 00:03:42.106
There's different ways to look at it.
00:03:42.106 --> 00:03:52.206
I mean it was an act of trust for us to sit in the studio together, to be like, oh, what's this idiot gonna say on the microphone?
00:03:52.206 --> 00:04:05.573
Fifty six episodes later, fifty six episodes later, Chris has learned to trust her gut feeling more and not do the things it is to me.
00:04:05.573 --> 00:04:11.306
Like the simple up front is trust is based on evidence patterns and data patterns.
00:04:11.306 --> 00:04:11.706
Mhm.
00:04:11.706 --> 00:04:12.006
Yeah.
00:04:12.006 --> 00:04:12.939
Kind of my thing.
00:04:12.939 --> 00:04:13.573
Mhm.
00:04:13.573 --> 00:04:18.240
Verified blind faith is based on hope.
00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:18.439
Yeah.
00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:23.906
A good feeling or this is when it typically happens.
00:04:23.906 --> 00:04:27.339
A desire to avoid conflict.
00:04:27.339 --> 00:04:28.805
Yeah.
00:04:28.805 --> 00:04:29.372
Yeah.
00:04:29.372 --> 00:04:30.372
Skip the pain.
00:04:30.372 --> 00:04:31.372
We'll just avoid the pain.
00:04:31.372 --> 00:04:31.706
Right.
00:04:31.706 --> 00:04:32.740
We'll just trust him.
00:04:32.740 --> 00:04:33.173
Yep.
00:04:33.173 --> 00:04:34.505
We'll just trust him.
00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:36.605
It's.
00:04:36.605 --> 00:04:38.372
I'm curious about this.
00:04:38.372 --> 00:04:48.906
Like how how do you build trust with a new leader without falling into that blind faith trap or just where you're like, here's the keys.
00:04:48.906 --> 00:04:52.673
Good luck and hope for the best.
00:04:52.673 --> 00:04:53.906
Right?
00:04:53.906 --> 00:04:54.272
Right.
00:04:54.272 --> 00:04:55.540
Lock up on your way out.
00:04:55.540 --> 00:04:56.673
Yeah.
00:04:56.673 --> 00:04:58.939
No, I mean this.
00:04:58.939 --> 00:05:03.540
You sent me this topic and I was like, oh, I'm gonna have to, like, really dig into this.
00:05:03.540 --> 00:05:06.706
This is like a therapy session.
00:05:06.706 --> 00:05:17.673
Um, so first I would say I have to check my own instincts around it because as like the, the visionary as a CEO, I want to trust people fast because I want to move fast.
00:05:17.673 --> 00:05:21.240
Like I just, just do it, but fast.
00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:23.139
Trust without structure is blind faith.
00:05:23.139 --> 00:05:24.639
You've got to have that structure around it.
00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:28.506
So before you even start with that structure, you have to first be willing to invest the time.
00:05:28.506 --> 00:05:29.506
So you got to interview.
00:05:29.506 --> 00:05:30.406
You've got to develop.
00:05:30.406 --> 00:05:31.673
You've got to coach.
00:05:31.673 --> 00:05:33.340
That is not a fast thing.
00:05:33.340 --> 00:05:34.639
No, it takes time.
00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:35.673
You're taking time.
00:05:35.673 --> 00:05:42.840
A lot of time getting to know those people, especially when they're taking on critical things from you in a management role.
00:05:42.840 --> 00:05:47.105
So I anchor everything in, you know, proof pattern predictability, three P's.
00:05:47.105 --> 00:05:50.340
So proof trust starts with evidence.
00:05:50.340 --> 00:05:50.673
Yep.
00:05:50.673 --> 00:05:51.340
Yep.
00:05:51.340 --> 00:05:52.173
Not vibes.
00:05:52.173 --> 00:05:52.840
We talked about.
00:05:52.840 --> 00:05:53.906
We talk about vibes a lot.
00:05:53.906 --> 00:05:55.105
It's not a vibe.
00:05:55.105 --> 00:05:56.305
It's not energy.
00:05:56.305 --> 00:05:59.706
It's not I like them, I like them.
00:05:59.706 --> 00:06:00.406
They'd be great.
00:06:00.406 --> 00:06:01.872
They also have cats.
00:06:01.872 --> 00:06:03.706
Yeah, exactly.
00:06:03.706 --> 00:06:04.273
It's not.
00:06:04.273 --> 00:06:06.073
I don't really want to know if they can or not.
00:06:06.073 --> 00:06:07.273
I just really want to hope.
00:06:07.273 --> 00:06:08.506
Hope is not a strategy.
00:06:08.506 --> 00:06:10.706
We talk about that all the time.
00:06:10.706 --> 00:06:18.073
So in proof, I want to see how they think, how they communicate and how they make decisions under pressure.
00:06:18.073 --> 00:06:23.773
Because charm is easy to fake, competence is harder, especially over time.
00:06:23.773 --> 00:06:26.173
So if I can't see it, I can't scale it.
00:06:26.173 --> 00:06:28.840
So I want proof of their capabilities.
00:06:28.840 --> 00:06:29.573
All right.
00:06:29.573 --> 00:06:30.706
The second one is pattern.
00:06:30.706 --> 00:06:32.573
And that is really where that consistency is.
00:06:32.573 --> 00:06:37.973
It's consistency over time because consistency takes competence, right.
00:06:37.973 --> 00:06:39.773
One good week doesn't build trust.
00:06:39.773 --> 00:06:43.439
One good day doesn't build trust unless they saved you from a burning building.
00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:49.040
Maybe that's different, but five consistent weeks, you really start to build that trust.
00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:50.805
And this aligns with what we've talked about before.
00:06:50.805 --> 00:06:55.372
That trust is built on repeated behavior, not one time performance.
00:06:55.372 --> 00:06:56.105
Yes.
00:06:56.105 --> 00:06:57.906
Again, same thing with like leadership.
00:06:57.906 --> 00:06:59.805
We talk about clarity, consistency and care.
00:06:59.805 --> 00:07:03.206
Pattern is modeling consistency, seeing consistency in that person.
00:07:03.206 --> 00:07:07.805
I've seen it where an employee, they do something wrong ten times.
00:07:07.805 --> 00:07:10.872
They do it right once and suddenly they think it's better.
00:07:10.872 --> 00:07:14.740
No that is no that is that is yeah.
00:07:14.740 --> 00:07:16.673
That is an anomaly in the pattern.
00:07:16.673 --> 00:07:18.406
Correct?
00:07:18.406 --> 00:07:18.906
Right.
00:07:18.906 --> 00:07:20.372
So once is not a pattern.
00:07:20.372 --> 00:07:20.605
Yes.
00:07:20.605 --> 00:07:21.473
Once is not a pattern.
00:07:21.473 --> 00:07:23.540
So then the third is predictability.
00:07:23.540 --> 00:07:24.872
All right.
00:07:24.872 --> 00:07:28.439
So it's the and then this is the one that leaders miss often.
00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:31.540
I want to know how they're going to respond when things go wrong.
00:07:31.540 --> 00:07:33.105
How do I predict their behavior.
00:07:33.105 --> 00:07:36.006
Because leadership isn't tested when things are working.
00:07:36.006 --> 00:07:38.605
It's really tested when things are breaking.
00:07:38.605 --> 00:07:42.273
And if you are hiring someone to fill in those gaps.
00:07:42.273 --> 00:07:44.872
Predictability is really important.
00:07:44.872 --> 00:07:48.173
So when things go wrong, how is this person reacting?
00:07:48.173 --> 00:07:50.240
So I'm going to ask them like thinking about this.
00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:52.406
This is a self-reflection for you.
00:07:52.406 --> 00:07:54.139
How is this person reacting when things go wrong?
00:07:54.139 --> 00:07:55.605
Do they go to you?
00:07:55.605 --> 00:07:58.473
Do they hide or avoid a hard conversation?
00:07:58.473 --> 00:08:00.673
Do they snark and snap at others?
00:08:00.673 --> 00:08:02.773
Do they become that brilliant jerk?
00:08:02.773 --> 00:08:05.040
And then how fast can they rebound?
00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:06.305
How fast can they triage?
00:08:06.305 --> 00:08:07.406
How fast can they navigate?
00:08:07.406 --> 00:08:10.273
And then autopsy for improvement.
00:08:10.273 --> 00:08:14.240
It's about predictability and knowing that they can do that thing because trust isn't built.
00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:17.040
When things go right, it's really revealed when things go wrong.
00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:28.906
It's funny, I love the hide thing because as soon as you said that under their desk, I was just gonna say in the closet, six of one half dozen of another, you know, what are they laying on the floor in the middle of their office?
00:08:28.906 --> 00:08:31.139
Are they, like, avoiding anybody from talking to them?
00:08:31.139 --> 00:08:32.505
Like, yes.
00:08:32.505 --> 00:08:33.673
So that's why it's really important.
00:08:33.673 --> 00:08:35.472
You've got proof, pattern and predictability.
00:08:35.472 --> 00:08:36.706
It's all of those things.
00:08:36.706 --> 00:08:37.773
Show me.
00:08:37.773 --> 00:08:39.706
I want to make sure that it's something that's going.
00:08:39.706 --> 00:08:43.340
You're doing this over time and then what can I expect from you?
00:08:43.340 --> 00:08:47.939
It's it's not hard to say.
00:08:47.939 --> 00:08:55.505
It is difficult if you like to go fast, to maintain your patience, you have to be patient through this process.
00:08:55.505 --> 00:08:56.340
Yes.
00:08:56.340 --> 00:08:59.505
And especially too, as I know you're a fast learner.
00:08:59.505 --> 00:08:59.939
Yes.
00:08:59.939 --> 00:09:10.539
You expect people to learn at your pace, and that's tough because not everyone is going to do that, especially when you're teaching them how you learn now, which may not be how they learn.
00:09:10.539 --> 00:09:13.639
There's all sorts of ways to to test your patience with that.
00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:17.305
I mean, there's delegating and then there's dumping.
00:09:17.305 --> 00:09:17.972
Yep.
00:09:20.572 --> 00:09:26.740
Once again, the guilt was palpable in that I've been a dumper.
00:09:26.740 --> 00:09:28.039
Same, same.
00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:29.240
Just go ahead and take care of that.
00:09:29.240 --> 00:09:29.605
Okay.
00:09:29.605 --> 00:09:30.139
Thanks.
00:09:30.139 --> 00:09:31.639
Let me know when it's done.
00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:34.740
Um, how do you how do you put that in a trust based culture?
00:09:34.740 --> 00:09:36.639
Like how do you, how do you build that?
00:09:36.639 --> 00:09:41.206
Like in trust rather than how do you make it trust rather than just do it?
00:09:41.206 --> 00:09:41.605
Exactly.
00:09:41.605 --> 00:09:45.673
Because, I mean, dumping is where founders accidentally sabotage trust.
00:09:45.673 --> 00:09:47.639
They do it all the time.
00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:49.005
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:49.005 --> 00:09:55.005
So they may say they're delegating, but actually what they're doing is disappearing or they're faux delegating.
00:09:55.005 --> 00:09:59.105
So there's one of two things I'm so delegating, I'm giving this to you, but not really.
00:09:59.105 --> 00:10:00.240
Or here you go.
00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:05.605
And I am somewhere completely different because I don't even want to know what's going to happen because it's just better if I don't.
00:10:05.605 --> 00:10:06.740
That's either one of those.
00:10:06.740 --> 00:10:08.105
No, don't do either one of those.
00:10:08.105 --> 00:10:15.906
You are pulling the pin and handing them a grenade and walking and walking away here, and then you're in the next room.
00:10:15.906 --> 00:10:18.072
You're like, yeah, I thought that that sounds about right.
00:10:18.072 --> 00:10:18.940
And you keep walking.
00:10:18.940 --> 00:10:19.706
No, don't do that.
00:10:19.706 --> 00:10:25.105
So Founders Touch is really the ability to stay present without staying in control.
00:10:25.105 --> 00:10:32.072
So you got to think about, you know, it's, you're connected to the standard, but you're not necessarily connected to every task.
00:10:32.072 --> 00:10:36.505
You don't have to do the work as the founder, but you do need to reinforce expectations.
00:10:36.505 --> 00:10:38.039
You need to stay in communication.
00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:40.206
You need to keep the mission visible.
00:10:40.206 --> 00:10:44.906
And I would say when you're working on this, it truly becomes delegation.
00:10:44.906 --> 00:10:49.173
When you are the one that is holding your core values as the founder.
00:10:49.173 --> 00:10:55.373
So you need to make sure that you're holding your core values, your training to your core values, your hiring and firing based on your core values.
00:10:55.373 --> 00:10:58.773
You are the keeper of the flame around your core values.
00:10:58.773 --> 00:11:07.740
And then you have to let the other people do the work, which means you have to let them also make the mistakes and also let them get the credit.
00:11:07.740 --> 00:11:09.906
Did you hear me get the credit?
00:11:09.906 --> 00:11:12.373
You have to let them have credit.
00:11:12.373 --> 00:11:34.906
And I would say that as much as letting them make mistakes because you want to save them, I would argue the harder piece for a lot of managers and leaders is to allow other people to have the credit, because it's really easy to say, I built this and these people work for me, and so I am responsible for all the things I have done it.
00:11:34.906 --> 00:11:38.139
No. Do not take all the credit.
00:11:38.139 --> 00:11:39.406
That makes you a jerk.
00:11:39.406 --> 00:11:41.440
Sometimes brilliant, sometimes not so brilliant.
00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:42.806
So don't do that.
00:11:42.806 --> 00:11:48.306
And then the other thing that happens, if you are not seeking credit, you're not doing that.
00:11:48.306 --> 00:12:51.326
Let's let's talk about check ins, because I think there are some founders who are like, I'm gone.
00:12:51.326 --> 00:12:58.126
I just trust them to do it because I don't want to have to check in because if I check in, that means I may have to redirect and I may have to fix it and it may be broken.
00:12:58.126 --> 00:13:02.725
And it's just denial is a much easier place to be.
00:13:02.725 --> 00:13:04.460
All right.
00:13:04.460 --> 00:13:11.460
It also and then there are also people who are like, I'm not going to check in because I know I'm a control freak and I'm going to jump back in and I'm going to be problematic.
00:13:11.460 --> 00:13:12.692
So here's what I will say.
00:13:12.692 --> 00:13:13.860
Check ins are not control.
00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:14.759
They're protection.
00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:15.692
Yes, yes.
00:13:15.692 --> 00:13:23.225
They protect the employee from invisible failure, the business from silent drift and the relationship from misunderstanding.
00:13:23.225 --> 00:13:24.826
They are not micromanaging.
00:13:24.826 --> 00:13:28.225
If you do check ins the right way, you are not micromanaging.
00:13:28.225 --> 00:13:31.560
You are helping like micro move things where they need to go.
00:13:31.560 --> 00:13:34.192
So if I'm checking in, my response is, I'm not questioning you.
00:13:34.192 --> 00:13:35.460
I'm supporting you.
00:13:36.460 --> 00:13:42.360
To me, this is where, like, I'm going to make another sports analogy, coach.
00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:42.692
Yeah.
00:13:42.692 --> 00:13:43.526
Be the coach.
00:13:43.526 --> 00:13:44.060
Exactly.
00:13:44.060 --> 00:13:45.993
You cannot run out onto the field and kick the ball.
00:13:45.993 --> 00:13:47.192
No, you get in trouble when you do that.
00:13:47.192 --> 00:13:47.826
Right.
00:13:47.826 --> 00:13:53.725
Um, that also sounded like the voice of experience is, uh, at least metaphorically.
00:13:53.725 --> 00:13:55.293
Metaphorically.
00:13:55.293 --> 00:14:01.793
No, I mean, be the coach, stand on the sideline, offer suggestions, tell them what the end result needs to be.
00:14:01.793 --> 00:14:06.393
But yeah, be the coach when it.
00:14:06.393 --> 00:14:16.326
What's interesting with the trust thing is what's tough is sometimes you have to realize is this trust, is this a skill gap?
00:14:16.326 --> 00:14:17.993
Is this a betrayal?
00:14:17.993 --> 00:14:20.593
Like, how do you figure that out?
00:14:20.593 --> 00:14:20.993
Yeah.
00:14:20.993 --> 00:14:25.460
So where leaders get emotional, we need to get objective.
00:14:25.460 --> 00:14:28.225
So let's go back to proof pattern predictability.
00:14:28.225 --> 00:14:28.960
Those three P's.
00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:32.493
So skill gap is a break in proof.
00:14:32.493 --> 00:14:33.225
Okay.
00:14:33.225 --> 00:14:34.560
They didn't know how.
00:14:34.560 --> 00:14:35.725
They didn't have training.
00:14:35.725 --> 00:14:37.393
They didn't understand the expectation.
00:14:37.393 --> 00:14:39.993
In which case when there's a break in proof, you're going to coach.
00:14:39.993 --> 00:14:40.326
Yep.
00:14:40.326 --> 00:14:41.060
Right.
00:14:41.060 --> 00:14:44.259
Behavior gap is a break in pattern.
00:14:44.259 --> 00:14:46.793
They knew, but they didn't follow through consistently.
00:14:46.793 --> 00:14:48.093
That's a correct.
00:14:48.093 --> 00:14:49.093
Right.
00:14:49.093 --> 00:14:50.593
Betrayal.
00:14:50.593 --> 00:14:52.493
Break in predictability.
00:14:52.493 --> 00:14:53.093
Okay.
00:14:53.093 --> 00:14:54.326
They acted outside values.
00:14:54.326 --> 00:14:55.160
They broke trust.
00:14:55.160 --> 00:14:58.026
They chose themselves over the mission.
00:14:58.026 --> 00:15:00.593
Cut my sound effect.
00:15:01.593 --> 00:15:10.426
So there's, there's some responses that come to this because immediately, like I'm saying, like, we're going to coach, we're going to correct.
00:15:10.426 --> 00:15:11.026
We're going to cut.
00:15:11.026 --> 00:15:12.160
Okay.
00:15:12.160 --> 00:15:15.225
But Chrissy, you don't understand.
00:15:15.225 --> 00:15:18.225
I need this person to run my business.
00:15:19.692 --> 00:15:23.725
Yes, they're a jerk, but there are jerk and we have to keep them.
00:15:23.725 --> 00:15:25.593
No, you do not.
00:15:25.593 --> 00:15:26.393
Not today.
00:15:26.393 --> 00:15:27.860
There are jerk.
00:15:27.860 --> 00:15:28.725
There are jerk.
00:15:28.725 --> 00:15:30.026
There are special jerks.
00:15:30.026 --> 00:15:40.293
Trust me, I. Josh, I can't tell you how many times I've been in a conversation with a business owner around their personnel and they are saying, but we have to keep them because they're our.
00:15:40.293 --> 00:15:42.393
I'm like, you are getting sued.
00:15:42.393 --> 00:15:46.192
Your organization has lost how many customers at this point?
00:15:46.192 --> 00:15:48.526
You are hemorrhaging revenue.
00:15:48.526 --> 00:15:50.060
You are hemorrhaging employees.
00:15:50.060 --> 00:15:51.225
You are dealing with.
00:15:51.225 --> 00:15:52.360
But we have to keep them.
00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:53.493
No, you do not.
00:15:53.493 --> 00:15:54.060
You do not.
00:15:54.060 --> 00:15:55.759
I promise you, you don't.
00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:56.360
Yikes.
00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:56.692
Yeah.
00:15:56.692 --> 00:15:59.493
And so this is where that brilliant jerk hits the wall, right?
00:15:59.493 --> 00:16:03.926
So when someone refuses to align with their mission, it's no longer a development issue.
00:16:03.926 --> 00:16:04.993
It's a values issue.
00:16:04.993 --> 00:16:06.560
You don't cut for mistakes.
00:16:06.560 --> 00:16:08.160
You cut for misalignment.
00:16:08.160 --> 00:16:08.692
Yep.
00:16:08.692 --> 00:16:09.960
Yes.
00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:15.160
So and I would say this is where those feelings get really messy.
00:16:15.160 --> 00:16:20.293
And you have to dig in as a visionary, as a CEO, as the business owner and be honest with yourself.
00:16:20.293 --> 00:16:22.826
And we said at the beginning of this podcast, hope is not a strategy.
00:16:22.826 --> 00:16:24.493
Delusional is not a strategy either.
00:16:24.493 --> 00:16:25.593
It's a delay tactic.
00:16:25.593 --> 00:16:27.526
Delusional it is.
00:16:27.526 --> 00:16:29.660
We both know those business owners, too.
00:16:29.660 --> 00:16:30.460
We do.
00:16:30.460 --> 00:16:34.393
And I'm gonna be honest, I have been delusional and it is not a strategy.
00:16:34.393 --> 00:16:39.160
It is a delay tactic and it has cost me significantly.
00:16:39.160 --> 00:16:43.626
So again, we do this podcast so people like don't make the same mistakes we did.
00:16:43.626 --> 00:16:47.560
It's funny when you say the, the, the cut for misalignment.
00:16:47.560 --> 00:16:47.993
Yeah.
00:16:47.993 --> 00:16:50.626
The, the visual that comes into my head.
00:16:50.626 --> 00:16:52.626
You're the captain of the ship.
00:16:52.626 --> 00:17:00.126
If someone else tries to grab the wheel out of your hand, you're sending them to the brig or they're down in the if they're drilling holes in your boat.
00:17:00.126 --> 00:17:01.060
Right.
00:17:01.060 --> 00:17:03.326
You wouldn't you wouldn't tolerate that.
00:17:03.326 --> 00:17:07.359
No, no no, no you would they'd walk the plank.
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:08.460
Seriously.
00:17:08.460 --> 00:17:10.259
They're aiming the cannon at the hull.
00:17:10.259 --> 00:17:12.759
No, that's not gonna work.
00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:14.625
And they're like, yeah, we'll just coach them.
00:17:14.625 --> 00:17:15.792
No, you will not.
00:17:15.792 --> 00:17:17.792
They are literally trying to kill you.
00:17:17.792 --> 00:17:19.026
Stop it.
00:17:19.026 --> 00:17:23.192
They are trying to kill your business, which is your livelihood, which in essence is your we've talked about this.
00:17:23.192 --> 00:17:24.460
Your business is your baby.
00:17:24.460 --> 00:17:26.625
They are holding a knife to its throat.
00:17:26.625 --> 00:17:27.192
I'm sorry.
00:17:27.192 --> 00:17:28.625
This is not a hostage negotiation.
00:17:28.625 --> 00:17:30.425
We are going to eliminate the threat.
00:17:31.859 --> 00:17:33.359
Exactly.
00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:39.059
Don't tell me that they are absolutely integral when they are trying to kill the business you have built.
00:17:39.059 --> 00:17:40.960
No, no, they are not.
00:17:43.492 --> 00:17:45.526
We got Chrissy riled up with that one.
00:17:47.692 --> 00:17:48.125
I'm sorry.
00:17:48.125 --> 00:17:48.925
Yes you did.
00:17:48.925 --> 00:17:51.960
I love it, I love it, I love it.
00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:52.826
Poke the bear.
00:17:52.826 --> 00:17:55.759
Yeah, I know this is supposed to be a soft topic.
00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:56.692
It's not.
00:17:58.425 --> 00:18:01.093
So let's operationalize it.
00:18:01.093 --> 00:18:01.359
Yeah.
00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:04.826
How do you turn trust into a hard operational metric?
00:18:04.826 --> 00:18:08.125
I built the I see the data bridge.
00:18:08.125 --> 00:18:09.160
Um, yes.
00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:14.692
And and don't, don't, don't think of this as the this is not the Golden Gate bridge here.
00:18:14.692 --> 00:18:16.425
This is not some fancy thing.
00:18:16.425 --> 00:18:19.225
No, this is not something that you float across.
00:18:19.225 --> 00:18:22.026
Um, this is I told you to do the thing.
00:18:22.026 --> 00:18:26.059
Did the thing get done to the, to to how we how we say it's supposed to get done.
00:18:26.059 --> 00:18:33.759
I mean, to me, if I have to go to anyone in my organization and be like, is this done?
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:39.759
I'm either a missing something operationally or b just too lazy to look.
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:43.393
I'm okay sometimes with too lazy to look because I will say, oh, I am too.
00:18:43.393 --> 00:18:48.160
I'll send a message to to someone sometimes and be like, hey, do we have this done?
00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:53.360
Because I know it would take me four or five minutes to look and they either are working on it or they just finished it.
00:18:53.360 --> 00:18:59.026
So they are going to know, yeah, I don't want to have to open up the asana and go through a couple of different ones.
00:18:59.026 --> 00:19:00.259
I can just be like, hey, look.
00:19:00.259 --> 00:19:06.192
And it may be I'm in, I'm sitting someplace, I'm, I'm whatever it is, I'm on my phone.
00:19:06.192 --> 00:19:07.326
It's on my mind.
00:19:07.326 --> 00:19:14.393
So sure, if you're in consulting and you're training, a great way to ask that question is how did that go?
00:19:14.393 --> 00:19:14.925
Yes.
00:19:14.925 --> 00:19:15.925
You say, how did that go?
00:19:15.925 --> 00:19:17.460
You're not saying, did you get it done?
00:19:17.460 --> 00:19:20.326
But they will parrot what happened.
00:19:20.326 --> 00:19:23.925
And you may actually get some additional coachable, trainable moments to it too.
00:19:23.925 --> 00:19:24.726
Wonderful.
00:19:24.726 --> 00:19:29.425
It's the same way we talk about like when people ask us to be a guest on the podcast.
00:19:29.425 --> 00:19:29.893
Yes.
00:19:29.893 --> 00:19:30.625
And I respond.
00:19:30.625 --> 00:19:32.026
Tell us which is your favorite episode?
00:19:32.026 --> 00:19:33.093
Who's your favorite guest?
00:19:33.093 --> 00:19:35.160
Who's been your favorite guest thus far?
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:38.793
Uh, none of them because we don't have any.
00:19:38.793 --> 00:19:39.992
Stop sending us that email.
00:19:39.992 --> 00:19:43.192
There's that lack of trust there, obviously, right off the bat.
00:19:43.192 --> 00:19:47.960
To me, there's like, I know who's getting what done when.
00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:48.492
Yes.
00:19:48.492 --> 00:19:53.692
Now, am I going in and looking at the finished product to make sure it's still where we're at?
00:19:53.692 --> 00:19:55.160
Yes.
00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:57.293
Um, I'm spot checking stuff.
00:19:57.293 --> 00:19:58.625
Quality control is a thing.
00:19:58.625 --> 00:19:59.793
One hundred percent.
00:19:59.793 --> 00:20:00.625
We've got to do that.
00:20:00.625 --> 00:20:02.526
And we occasionally catch things.
00:20:02.526 --> 00:20:03.192
It happens.
00:20:03.192 --> 00:20:05.259
We are working with humans.
00:20:05.259 --> 00:20:05.425
Yeah.
00:20:05.425 --> 00:20:06.593
We're allowed to make mistakes.
00:20:06.593 --> 00:20:07.492
Correct.
00:20:07.492 --> 00:20:13.492
Nowhere in there has I seen someone that has been trying to do something specifically wrong.
00:20:13.492 --> 00:20:16.293
Um, that that is where it changes for that.
00:20:16.293 --> 00:20:17.992
Mhm.
00:20:17.992 --> 00:20:21.492
Me being a math guy and a logic guy.
00:20:21.492 --> 00:20:23.425
Trust is consistency.
00:20:23.425 --> 00:20:25.093
Times, time.
00:20:25.093 --> 00:20:26.226
That's it.
00:20:26.226 --> 00:20:31.526
Oh, I mean, if you're consistent over time, you have my trust.
00:20:31.526 --> 00:20:32.160
Yeah.
00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:33.593
That's it.
00:20:33.593 --> 00:20:36.726
If you're not consistent over time, guess what?
00:20:36.726 --> 00:20:38.226
We have questions.
00:20:38.226 --> 00:20:40.125
We have a lot of questions.
00:20:40.125 --> 00:20:46.226
Consistency is what transforms an employee from a personality into a known variable.
00:20:46.226 --> 00:20:52.460
If I give when I send a podcast to Lance three days later, it's coming back.
00:20:52.460 --> 00:20:52.992
Done.
00:20:52.992 --> 00:20:53.492
Yeah.
00:20:53.492 --> 00:20:54.093
That's it.
00:20:54.093 --> 00:20:58.293
It's just there's clear expectations, clear SOPs.
00:20:58.293 --> 00:20:59.026
Yes.
00:20:59.026 --> 00:21:01.226
There's there's not a flair to it.
00:21:01.226 --> 00:21:02.160
There's not any.
00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:05.326
It's just coming back exactly as I had hoped.
00:21:05.326 --> 00:21:05.726
Yes.
00:21:05.726 --> 00:21:06.660
Done.
00:21:06.660 --> 00:21:08.793
That's because there's the known variable.
00:21:08.793 --> 00:21:10.860
There is that consistency over time.
00:21:10.860 --> 00:21:15.125
We've done this hundreds if not thousands of times already.
00:21:15.125 --> 00:21:20.026
So when someone's consistent, I'm not managing their mood, their effort.
00:21:20.026 --> 00:21:23.559
I'm monitoring the process this way.
00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:25.992
I there's less for me to manage.
00:21:25.992 --> 00:21:26.526
Yeah.
00:21:26.526 --> 00:21:28.726
Imagine that.
00:21:28.726 --> 00:21:31.093
When you've got the right SOPs and everything like that.
00:21:31.093 --> 00:21:35.692
And if the SOP is followed a hundred times, I have one hundred percent trust her.
00:21:35.692 --> 00:21:36.226
Yeah.
00:21:36.226 --> 00:21:40.960
If I have to hope that something's getting done, that's not peace of mind.
00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:43.492
No, because it's panic.
00:21:43.492 --> 00:21:48.192
I've had those times two years ago, I had an editor where I'm like, hey, is this done?
00:21:48.192 --> 00:21:50.093
And she's like, what?
00:21:50.093 --> 00:21:54.526
No, no, no, this the project I sent five days ago.
00:21:54.526 --> 00:21:56.192
Oh, that project.
00:21:56.192 --> 00:21:56.893
What project?
00:21:56.893 --> 00:21:58.660
I forgot about it.
00:21:58.660 --> 00:22:00.293
Um, yeah.
00:22:00.293 --> 00:22:05.393
And the problem is, is it takes two or three times out of one hundred to totally kill that.
00:22:06.860 --> 00:22:13.425
Um, I also like to look at scheduled versus random verification.
00:22:13.425 --> 00:22:14.360
Yeah.
00:22:14.360 --> 00:22:19.692
Operational trust requires periodic verification.
00:22:19.692 --> 00:22:20.425
Yes.
00:22:20.425 --> 00:22:21.860
Like you said, quality control.
00:22:21.860 --> 00:22:22.692
Mhm.
00:22:22.692 --> 00:22:30.059
Trusting the system means that you trust that the audit will catch errors before they scale.
00:22:30.059 --> 00:22:33.692
You're looking for errors to catch before they scale.
00:22:33.692 --> 00:22:37.360
You're not looking for reasons to go down and yell at Bob.
00:22:37.360 --> 00:22:42.625
No. That would be targeting in retaliation.
00:22:42.625 --> 00:22:43.460
We don't do that.
00:22:43.460 --> 00:22:44.625
Correct.
00:22:44.625 --> 00:22:46.160
Talk to the HR company about that.
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:46.960
Yes.
00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:48.893
There's two that I that I look at with this.
00:22:48.893 --> 00:22:50.093
There's a scheduled audit.
00:22:50.093 --> 00:22:54.660
There is the hey every like everyone knows the standard.
00:22:54.660 --> 00:22:58.460
This is just validating that everyone knows where we are supposed to be.
00:22:58.460 --> 00:22:58.960
Yeah.
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:00.160
It's for training.
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:01.460
It's for an alignment.
00:23:01.460 --> 00:23:05.526
I expect you to be at this point, at this point in time.
00:23:05.526 --> 00:23:12.125
The random audit is the one that validates that the team lives the standard.
00:23:12.125 --> 00:23:17.625
Um, if they know an audits coming, in many cases they will go in and clean stuff up.
00:23:17.625 --> 00:23:21.125
Um, I know a number of organizations, some of them medically oriented.
00:23:21.125 --> 00:23:21.660
Oh gosh.
00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:21.960
Yeah.
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:25.860
Where they, when they know a state inspectors coming.
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:34.793
I know of one specifically where when a state inspector was there, they were calling the liaison like seven, eight times a day.
00:23:34.793 --> 00:23:36.559
How's it going?
00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:38.460
Is it going okay?
00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:39.526
How's it going?
00:23:39.526 --> 00:23:41.593
That's that's that's not trust.
00:23:41.593 --> 00:23:43.360
No, it's not trust at all.
00:23:43.360 --> 00:23:44.026
That's panic.
00:23:44.026 --> 00:23:45.425
The one that I like is.
00:23:45.425 --> 00:23:49.759
Is my sister's husband was a health inspector.
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:50.593
Okay.
00:23:50.593 --> 00:23:53.559
Um, think of restaurant inspections.
00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:54.259
Mhm.
00:23:54.259 --> 00:23:56.593
And I have seen this in action before.
00:23:56.593 --> 00:23:59.559
If they know the health inspector is coming.
00:23:59.559 --> 00:24:01.425
Oh, it's a very different restaurant.
00:24:01.425 --> 00:24:03.559
Oh, it it's.
00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:05.925
The parking lot is spotless.
00:24:05.925 --> 00:24:08.059
Yes, the kitchen is spotless.
00:24:08.059 --> 00:24:08.625
The dining.
00:24:08.625 --> 00:24:10.526
All the chairs are organized.
00:24:10.526 --> 00:24:14.226
It looks like their grand freaking opening.
00:24:14.226 --> 00:24:15.259
Yes.
00:24:15.259 --> 00:24:23.925
Um, if he shows up at random, um, let's just say there's some restaurants that I will not be visiting in the area.
00:24:23.925 --> 00:24:24.559
Yeah.
00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:28.759
Um, just because of the fact when he would go in, it was very different.
00:24:28.759 --> 00:24:33.726
So to me, like, you need to have both the scheduled audit and the random audit.
00:24:33.726 --> 00:24:41.860
And the problem is, is from an, a leadership standpoint, the random audit still kind of needs to be scheduled.
00:24:41.860 --> 00:24:42.625
Yeah.
00:24:42.625 --> 00:24:46.492
Because if you don't schedule it, you ain't never going to do it.
00:24:46.492 --> 00:24:51.326
No. If I don't put something out, like if it's not on my calendar, it's not going to not going to happen.
00:24:51.326 --> 00:24:51.660
Yeah.
00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:54.425
It's not gonna, not gonna, not gonna work here anymore.
00:24:54.425 --> 00:24:58.226
Uh, no. Yeah.
00:24:58.226 --> 00:25:00.660
I know you're like, our calendars are similar.
00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:04.660
Like, hey, I've got seven minutes while I'm in the car between here and there.
00:25:04.660 --> 00:25:05.460
Do you want to talk?
00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:05.726
Yeah.
00:25:05.726 --> 00:25:07.226
Right, right, right.
00:25:07.226 --> 00:25:08.326
Um, yeah.
00:25:08.326 --> 00:25:13.226
If if you are only if you only audit when it's scheduled, you're building a culture of cleaning up for the boss.
00:25:13.226 --> 00:25:13.726
Yeah.
00:25:13.726 --> 00:25:20.759
Um, if you audit at random, you are building a culture where the standard is the only way that work will ever get done.
00:25:58.089 --> 00:26:00.455
It's going to get done this way no matter what.
00:26:00.455 --> 00:26:09.923
And in that, once you have that through that auditing process, through that random audit process, that is where you build trust.
00:26:09.923 --> 00:26:10.322
Yeah.
00:26:10.322 --> 00:26:12.289
Not just blind faith that.
00:26:12.289 --> 00:26:13.056
Mhm.
00:26:13.056 --> 00:26:15.623
I think they did it maybe.
00:26:15.623 --> 00:26:16.690
Right.
00:26:16.690 --> 00:26:17.923
Right.
00:26:17.923 --> 00:26:19.123
Um, on the external side.
00:26:19.123 --> 00:26:25.855
Now, this is one that I find interesting because there's vendors and then there's the customer side of it.
00:26:25.855 --> 00:26:26.522
Yeah.
00:26:26.522 --> 00:26:31.822
Um, on the vendor process, there's the, I don't trust people or promises from a vendor.
00:26:31.822 --> 00:26:33.822
I trust a process.
00:26:33.822 --> 00:26:34.522
Yeah.
00:26:34.522 --> 00:26:36.722
Um, when we're vetting a new vendor.
00:26:36.722 --> 00:26:37.222
Yeah.
00:26:37.222 --> 00:26:42.889
I ask about their process for filling orders, shipping items, their payment terms.
00:26:42.889 --> 00:26:45.923
What is the process for this?
00:26:45.923 --> 00:26:53.022
And it's very quickly becomes obvious if they have a process for it or if they don't.
00:26:53.022 --> 00:26:57.722
Well, you know, we just we get the stuff and then like we ship it out to you.
00:26:57.722 --> 00:26:58.022
Right.
00:26:58.022 --> 00:26:58.923
We send it to you.
00:26:58.923 --> 00:27:05.556
If they say no, no. When the salesman gets the order, it's submitted into our system, which gives us a ticket down in the warehouse where we print the stuff off.
00:27:05.556 --> 00:27:05.822
Great.
00:27:05.822 --> 00:27:06.490
No problem.
00:27:06.490 --> 00:27:06.822
Shut up.
00:27:06.822 --> 00:27:07.423
We're good.
00:27:07.423 --> 00:27:08.190
Exactly.
00:27:08.190 --> 00:27:10.322
Um, that is that base trust.
00:27:10.322 --> 00:27:13.056
Because if they have a process, I can work with that.
00:27:13.056 --> 00:27:13.423
Yeah.
00:27:13.423 --> 00:27:14.623
Here's our standard contract.
00:27:14.623 --> 00:27:15.755
This is how it works.
00:27:15.755 --> 00:27:17.690
I don't know if I like your payment terms.
00:27:17.690 --> 00:27:19.155
I think I'd like more extensions.
00:27:19.155 --> 00:27:21.022
Like, I don't think we can work together.
00:27:22.623 --> 00:27:25.322
I had that I had that conversation with a prospect via email.
00:27:25.322 --> 00:27:28.322
They're like, I don't like that we have to pay this within fifteen days.
00:27:28.322 --> 00:27:29.155
This is a concern.
00:27:29.155 --> 00:27:34.522
I'm like, if you have a concern that you can't pay your bill in fifteen days, for hours that we're going to work, then maybe we shouldn't work together.
00:27:34.522 --> 00:27:37.355
Yeah, it's totally okay to do that one hundred percent.
00:27:37.355 --> 00:27:38.190
You have the right to ask.
00:27:38.190 --> 00:27:41.056
And they also have the right to say, no, I'm not going to do that.
00:27:41.056 --> 00:27:46.990
It's funny because we've done the same thing like on I always say trust, but be decisive with customers.
00:27:46.990 --> 00:27:47.822
Yes.
00:27:47.822 --> 00:27:49.623
Um, it is a two way street.
00:27:49.623 --> 00:27:53.056
If we set the deadline, we meet it.
00:27:53.056 --> 00:27:58.623
If there's an operational hurdle that makes that not possible, we're going to tell the customer before the deadline hits?
00:27:58.623 --> 00:27:59.722
Yes.
00:27:59.722 --> 00:28:01.190
Not surprise them?
00:28:01.190 --> 00:28:05.789
No. Hey, I know you needed this Thursday and it's Friday.
00:28:05.789 --> 00:28:11.923
So, um, in our business, we offer terms.
00:28:11.923 --> 00:28:13.623
Yes, we do that for most people.
00:28:13.623 --> 00:28:16.355
Um, it's something unique to what we do.
00:28:16.355 --> 00:28:19.789
Um, most podcast studios are like pay before you sign up.
00:28:19.789 --> 00:28:20.423
Yes.
00:28:20.423 --> 00:28:26.789
We're like, hey, we'll give you terms on stuff like that because once again, it makes it easier for the customer.
00:28:26.789 --> 00:28:27.722
It does.
00:28:27.722 --> 00:28:31.690
Now I, I have had a customer fall behind.
00:28:31.690 --> 00:28:31.990
Yeah.
00:28:31.990 --> 00:28:35.355
We granted a short extension of about a week.
00:28:35.355 --> 00:28:37.690
Um, that deadline passed.
00:28:37.690 --> 00:28:38.355
Mhm.
00:28:38.355 --> 00:28:49.089
I immediately pulled down all like a month's worth of scheduled social media posts that we had already done for them within an hour.
00:28:49.089 --> 00:28:50.190
He's calling me.
00:28:50.190 --> 00:28:51.490
Whoa whoa, whoa.
00:28:51.490 --> 00:28:53.190
Like what happened?
00:28:53.190 --> 00:28:54.990
I'm like, you didn't pay your bill.
00:28:54.990 --> 00:28:55.255
It's like.
00:28:55.255 --> 00:28:59.289
But you took down my entire social media, like all my social media for the next month.
00:28:59.289 --> 00:29:00.789
Which you haven't paid for.
00:29:00.789 --> 00:29:04.155
Yeah, that's how it works.
00:29:04.155 --> 00:29:06.923
And I mean, it came down at twelve oh one.
00:29:06.923 --> 00:29:07.589
Yeah.
00:29:07.589 --> 00:29:09.655
Um, we didn't have payment at twelve oh one.
00:29:09.655 --> 00:29:11.255
Guess what we're done.
00:29:11.255 --> 00:29:23.056
Um, and it was interesting because like, for me, it was the, I want to work with you, but you need to know where we stand and pulling the post sent that clear message like, hey, trust.
00:29:23.056 --> 00:29:23.490
Yeah.
00:29:23.490 --> 00:29:25.155
You trust us.
00:29:25.155 --> 00:29:27.089
We're having a tough time trusting you right now.
00:29:27.089 --> 00:29:28.556
What do you mean you won't run my payroll?
00:29:28.556 --> 00:29:31.722
You haven't paid us in a month, so we're not going to run your payroll anymore.
00:29:33.789 --> 00:29:36.722
That's not an awkward conversation for me to have.
00:29:36.722 --> 00:29:43.589
No, no. And it's it's funny because it's like it's a conversation none of us look forward to.
00:29:43.589 --> 00:29:44.589
No, not at all.
00:29:44.589 --> 00:29:48.690
Um, because you want the money and this is a it's a tenuous thing.
00:29:48.690 --> 00:29:49.155
Yes.
00:29:49.155 --> 00:29:52.455
But in the same sense, I only want to work with people that I trust.
00:29:52.455 --> 00:29:53.190
Yes.
00:29:53.190 --> 00:29:56.389
And set expectations at the very beginning, we have gotten much better.
00:29:56.389 --> 00:30:04.355
Again, that response about, well, if you have a problem with paying us within fifteen to forty five days, then maybe we have bigger concerns than whether or not you should be a customer.
00:30:04.355 --> 00:30:07.389
You get better at those conversations over time.
00:30:07.389 --> 00:30:11.822
So the first one, you want to throw up, the second one you still want to throw up.
00:30:11.822 --> 00:30:15.056
But by the time you get to like the tenth, you're like, oh, this is easy.
00:30:15.056 --> 00:30:16.190
I got it right.
00:30:16.190 --> 00:30:18.089
And it's just like, let me add it to me.
00:30:18.089 --> 00:30:22.690
The other thing is, is that I will tell people I like, I don't get emotional about stuff like this.
00:30:22.690 --> 00:30:23.355
Mhm.
00:30:23.355 --> 00:30:24.655
I know a lot of people do.
00:30:24.655 --> 00:30:24.955
Yeah.
00:30:24.955 --> 00:30:28.655
And what I always tell them is cry beforehand.
00:30:28.655 --> 00:30:29.190
Yes.
00:30:29.190 --> 00:30:30.355
Cry.
00:30:30.355 --> 00:30:33.255
Settle the hell down and then make the phone call.
00:30:33.255 --> 00:30:33.990
Yes.
00:30:33.990 --> 00:30:35.155
Cry first.
00:30:35.155 --> 00:30:35.655
Yes.
00:30:35.655 --> 00:30:36.222
Don't.
00:30:36.222 --> 00:30:37.355
Don't wait till you have.
00:30:37.355 --> 00:30:38.889
When they start crying or they start whining.
00:30:38.889 --> 00:30:39.455
Just you just.
00:30:39.455 --> 00:30:40.222
Or they get angry.
00:30:40.222 --> 00:30:42.655
You just know you have.
00:30:42.655 --> 00:30:45.556
You've got your answer one hundred percent right.
00:30:45.556 --> 00:30:48.755
It's not the answer you want, but it's the answer you need.
00:30:48.755 --> 00:30:49.022
It's.
00:30:49.022 --> 00:30:49.690
It's an answer.
00:30:49.690 --> 00:30:49.955
Yes.
00:30:49.955 --> 00:30:52.423
And it's the answer that lets you know how to move forward.
00:30:52.423 --> 00:30:57.056
The other thing that I found too is the like trusting their reaction.
00:30:57.056 --> 00:30:58.755
We talk about clarity as kind.
00:30:58.755 --> 00:31:00.089
Direct is kind.
00:31:00.089 --> 00:31:04.755
Um, if something goes wrong, employees should know like that.
00:31:04.755 --> 00:31:05.490
Trust.
00:31:05.490 --> 00:31:08.455
I should know how my employees are going to react and they should know how I'm going to react.
00:31:08.455 --> 00:31:09.955
Absolutely.
00:31:09.955 --> 00:31:16.789
Um, I've had so many people where you had no idea how they were going to react.
00:31:16.789 --> 00:31:29.089
Um, if you screwed up on, like I say, if someone screws up, like, let's say something that's got a seven or eight screw up out of ten, um, they should see a seven or eight level of, of consequences to that.
00:31:29.089 --> 00:31:32.522
Or I don't want to say yelling and screaming, but reaction to it.
00:31:32.522 --> 00:31:33.355
Yeah.
00:31:33.355 --> 00:31:40.123
Um, if they screw up small, like, let's say level two or three, it should not be between two and eight.
00:31:40.123 --> 00:31:41.289
It's what they receive.
00:31:41.289 --> 00:31:42.755
You have to be stable.
00:31:42.755 --> 00:31:43.355
Yes.
00:31:43.355 --> 00:31:46.190
And the problem is, is there's zero trust there.
00:31:46.190 --> 00:31:55.222
And the thing that I found is when I was at the truck dealership, the owner was wild with stuff like that one time there would be zero reaction.
00:31:55.222 --> 00:32:03.056
The next time it would be an eleven reaction, and you have no idea what you're getting into as an employee.
00:32:03.056 --> 00:32:05.289
Then you're on eggshells all the time, correct?
00:32:05.289 --> 00:32:09.490
So if the employees can't trust you, that's.
00:32:09.490 --> 00:32:14.855
This is one of those things where it has to be a two way street and you have to you have to give a little more first.
00:32:14.855 --> 00:32:15.490
Yeah.
00:32:15.490 --> 00:32:17.755
Um, you're the one in control.
00:32:17.755 --> 00:32:19.722
You you're the one with the power.
00:32:19.722 --> 00:32:22.222
You have to show a little bit of vulnerability with that.
00:32:22.222 --> 00:32:24.690
Otherwise that's never going to happen.
00:32:24.690 --> 00:32:30.022
Um, something else that completely breaks trust is the flip flop decision.
00:32:30.022 --> 00:32:30.556
Yeah.
00:32:31.623 --> 00:32:42.755
You could ask this like I dealt with this for a long time with a, with a boss, you could ask the same question the same way with the same data one one week apart and get two wildly different answers.
00:32:42.755 --> 00:32:43.789
Yeah.
00:32:43.789 --> 00:32:49.190
Um, it results in complete paralysis for your organization because they can't do anything.
00:32:49.190 --> 00:32:51.289
No, because everyone's hiding in the closet.
00:32:51.289 --> 00:32:51.789
Mhm.
00:32:51.789 --> 00:32:55.822
Um, if there's no trust there, everyone's hiding in the closet.
00:32:55.822 --> 00:32:57.322
This.
00:32:57.322 --> 00:32:58.623
Have I ever mentioned why?
00:32:58.623 --> 00:33:01.289
Like, people should have some SOPs for stuff?
00:33:01.289 --> 00:33:02.690
A couple times.
00:33:02.690 --> 00:33:08.923
It's kind of like the clarity thing for you, clarity for you as SOPs for me.
00:33:08.923 --> 00:33:12.855
If you have SOPs, you can.
00:33:12.855 --> 00:33:14.623
I mean, you know exactly how to react.
00:33:14.623 --> 00:33:19.355
You know, I mean, at least you have a very tight range on how to do things.
00:33:19.355 --> 00:33:21.690
It's not about stifling creativity.
00:33:21.690 --> 00:33:23.490
It's not about demanding perfection.
00:33:23.490 --> 00:33:26.190
It's about ensuring consistency.
00:33:26.190 --> 00:33:29.556
Consistency doesn't mean exactly the same every single time.
00:33:29.556 --> 00:33:32.490
It means results within a specific range.
00:33:32.490 --> 00:33:40.190
And that's what people need from you personally as well as professionally when it comes into the business.
00:33:40.190 --> 00:33:42.190
This comes down to that coach.
00:33:42.190 --> 00:33:43.089
Correct.
00:33:43.089 --> 00:33:44.089
Cut.
00:33:44.089 --> 00:33:48.423
Because if you have and I mean, once again, people are going to leave you.
00:33:48.423 --> 00:33:49.056
Yes.
00:33:49.056 --> 00:33:53.490
If they can't trust you, that is the number one reason why people leave.
00:33:53.490 --> 00:33:54.822
That's their them.
00:33:54.822 --> 00:33:57.123
That's them cutting you.
00:33:57.123 --> 00:33:59.423
That's every single time.
00:33:59.423 --> 00:34:05.522
Um, I still always like going back to the, the office example about this.
00:34:05.522 --> 00:34:06.322
Yes.
00:34:06.322 --> 00:34:11.590
When Michael Scott's like, I think I need to manage this on a more micro level.
00:34:11.590 --> 00:34:13.356
Um, like what's that called?
00:34:13.356 --> 00:34:19.990
So is it micro if or just good operations if you're verifying everything.
00:34:19.990 --> 00:34:23.222
So verification isn't micromanagement.
00:34:23.222 --> 00:34:26.423
It's maintenance because you know, trust doesn't remove visibility.
00:34:26.423 --> 00:34:27.856
It really requires it.
00:34:27.856 --> 00:34:29.789
So you've got to be able to pay attention.
00:34:29.789 --> 00:34:30.155
Yes.
00:34:30.155 --> 00:34:32.722
You audit systems, you don't audit people.
00:34:32.722 --> 00:34:37.155
I mean, but if you don't check the process, drift is inevitable.
00:34:37.155 --> 00:34:39.490
It it just is.
00:34:39.490 --> 00:34:44.423
You're gonna you're gonna go off course if nobody's paying like, and then you're like, why isn't anybody paying attention?
00:34:44.423 --> 00:34:47.155
Well, that was your job leader.
00:34:47.155 --> 00:34:48.389
That's your one job.
00:34:48.389 --> 00:34:49.789
It's pay attention.
00:34:49.789 --> 00:34:50.389
It's so funny.
00:34:50.389 --> 00:34:52.655
I talk with people about this in podcasting all the time.
00:34:52.655 --> 00:34:54.722
Yes, we talk about pod drift.
00:34:54.722 --> 00:34:55.022
Yes.
00:34:55.022 --> 00:35:02.922
Because you start talking about a subject and the next thing you know, fifteen, twenty episodes later, you're about twenty five degrees off and you're like, how the hell did I get over here?
00:35:02.922 --> 00:35:06.922
I can come back, right back to your, your thesis, right?
00:35:06.922 --> 00:35:07.222
Yeah.
00:35:07.222 --> 00:35:09.922
Trust the process or trust the person.
00:35:09.922 --> 00:35:15.455
Oh. She's like, I have to choose.
00:35:15.455 --> 00:35:17.889
No, no, no, no, they're not both standing on trapdoors.
00:35:17.889 --> 00:35:18.422
That's true.
00:35:18.422 --> 00:35:23.123
When you pull the lever, the one disappears into the the pit of despair.
00:35:23.123 --> 00:35:29.222
So I would say good people can get lost in a bad process very quickly.
00:35:29.222 --> 00:35:32.989
So if you have to fix it, you bring the team along.
00:35:32.989 --> 00:35:38.355
So if there's alignment, you fix the process first and then you fix the personal issue if you have both at the same time.
00:35:38.355 --> 00:35:44.222
But I would say oftentimes it's not bad people, it's good people and a bad process.
00:35:44.222 --> 00:35:49.489
I wholeheartedly agree with that because it's usually the process is broken somewhere.
00:35:49.489 --> 00:35:59.855
And like most people, if you tell them what the end result is and you tell them what we need to do to get there, they want to do that.
00:35:59.855 --> 00:36:01.389
They want to do things right.
00:36:01.389 --> 00:36:03.255
People want to do things right.
00:36:03.255 --> 00:36:03.955
Yeah.
00:36:03.955 --> 00:36:08.689
If they don't have a good guide for how to do it right, they're gonna.
00:36:08.689 --> 00:36:09.322
Yeah.
00:36:10.722 --> 00:36:24.655
How do you market trust without saying, hey, we're trustworthy because there's so many businesses I see that are like, as soon as I see like trust in the marketing, I'm like trusted advisor, right?
00:36:24.655 --> 00:36:26.589
Your most trusted resource, right?
00:36:26.589 --> 00:36:30.322
I'm like, yeah, building trust in nineteen eighty two, right?
00:36:30.322 --> 00:36:32.255
You're, you're selling used cars.
00:36:32.255 --> 00:36:32.755
Yeah.
00:36:32.755 --> 00:36:35.755
As soon as I pull this off the lot, the transmissions coming out the bottom.
00:36:35.755 --> 00:36:36.389
Yeah.
00:36:37.889 --> 00:36:40.122
How would you do that?
00:36:40.122 --> 00:36:43.522
I think it's showing up with clarity, consistency and care.
00:36:43.522 --> 00:36:49.089
It's really showing your values, showing your purpose, and it's the results.
00:36:49.089 --> 00:36:55.489
So I would say an easy way to market trust is in the responses of your clients and customers.
00:36:55.489 --> 00:36:57.222
They're usually your raving fans.
00:36:57.222 --> 00:36:58.855
So I mean, how would you do it?
00:36:58.855 --> 00:37:00.155
Marketing expert.
00:37:00.155 --> 00:37:09.755
Um, I want to make a great point to kind of exactly what you said is showing them that they can trust you.
00:37:09.755 --> 00:37:13.555
Um, you make a great example of that because community is part of your values.
00:37:13.555 --> 00:37:14.089
Mhm.
00:37:14.089 --> 00:37:25.089
Um, and you guys, you're seen all over the place doing things in various communities that like we say it and we do it, we say it and we do it.
00:37:25.089 --> 00:37:32.455
Um, the flip side of that is we care, like the whole message, we care about our customers.
00:37:32.455 --> 00:37:35.489
Please continue to hold for an hour and a half.
00:37:35.489 --> 00:37:35.822
Yeah.
00:37:35.822 --> 00:37:45.222
Um, like when I hear that your hold time is only forty six minutes, you're like, yeah, yeah, no, you don't care about me.
00:37:45.222 --> 00:37:47.589
You don't care about me at all.
00:37:47.589 --> 00:37:50.922
Um, that is the like, that is how that goes wrong.
00:37:52.789 --> 00:37:55.455
So some key takeaways from this.
00:37:55.455 --> 00:37:56.655
Yeah.
00:37:56.655 --> 00:38:00.655
Um, move the goalpost to a dashboard.
00:38:00.655 --> 00:38:04.855
Stop asking people how's it going and start looking at the shared data.
00:38:04.855 --> 00:38:06.155
The information's there.
00:38:06.155 --> 00:38:06.722
Yeah.
00:38:06.722 --> 00:38:12.855
When you use proof pattern predictability, that helps you go from blind faith to trust when you're delegating.
00:38:12.855 --> 00:38:14.789
So use those three P's.
00:38:14.789 --> 00:38:15.655
Love it.
00:38:15.655 --> 00:38:20.522
Um, to me, the audit is kind, meaning that I trust you.
00:38:20.522 --> 00:38:23.455
It's to make sure that the machine is still working correctly.
00:38:23.455 --> 00:38:24.255
Yeah.
00:38:24.255 --> 00:38:27.589
And model how you want this in your organization.
00:38:27.589 --> 00:38:29.255
So don't be an ostrich.
00:38:29.255 --> 00:38:35.155
Put your head in the sand unless that's how you want everyone else to behave to model what you mandate.
00:38:36.722 --> 00:38:38.322
Don't be an ostrich.
00:38:41.289 --> 00:38:42.255
Um.
00:38:42.255 --> 00:38:42.922
Kill.
00:38:42.922 --> 00:38:44.322
Kill vendors.
00:38:44.322 --> 00:38:45.489
Not literally.
00:38:45.489 --> 00:38:49.522
Um, let's go with cut vendors that, uh, if you just have to trust them.
00:38:49.522 --> 00:38:50.122
Yeah.
00:38:51.989 --> 00:38:53.955
You should feel the trust.
00:38:53.955 --> 00:38:54.855
It shouldn't.
00:38:54.855 --> 00:38:58.622
Don't don't feel like you have to trust.
00:38:58.622 --> 00:39:01.089
Don't feel like you're hostage to them.
00:39:01.089 --> 00:39:03.989
Um, go out and find someone that's a better relationship.
00:39:03.989 --> 00:39:05.589
Uh, gut feelings.
00:39:05.589 --> 00:39:06.189
Yeah.
00:39:07.289 --> 00:39:12.722
Intuition or just bias or laziness.
00:39:12.722 --> 00:39:13.189
Like.
00:39:13.189 --> 00:39:14.322
Ah, sure.
00:39:14.322 --> 00:39:17.522
Okay, so there is science and intuition and gut feelings.
00:39:17.522 --> 00:39:20.389
It's about like the millions of micro decisions that you've made over time.
00:39:20.389 --> 00:39:22.222
There is actual science around your gut.
00:39:22.222 --> 00:39:23.722
I believe in it.
00:39:23.722 --> 00:39:30.289
I just don't believe when people are being like, I think if you have really good self-awareness, then you probably have good gut instincts.
00:39:30.289 --> 00:39:33.722
If you do not have self-awareness, you don't.
00:39:33.722 --> 00:39:39.389
It's interesting to me because with that, I see and we've all been snowed.
00:39:39.389 --> 00:39:39.855
Yeah.
00:39:39.855 --> 00:39:43.789
Um, but it, it really is, is you're looking at patterns.
00:39:43.789 --> 00:39:48.889
You have built a library of patterns that you've watched, whether you're aware of it or not.
00:39:48.889 --> 00:39:50.889
You're relying on those for sure.
00:39:50.889 --> 00:39:51.455
Yeah.
00:39:52.822 --> 00:39:56.089
Can a remote hybrid team have the same level of trust as an in-person team?
00:39:56.089 --> 00:39:56.889
Hell yes.
00:39:56.889 --> 00:39:58.089
Duh.
00:39:58.089 --> 00:39:59.622
It's about the leader.
00:39:59.622 --> 00:40:01.455
It's not even just about the leader.
00:40:01.455 --> 00:40:05.322
I mean, to me, it's the simple question.
00:40:05.322 --> 00:40:06.722
Is the shit done?
00:40:08.022 --> 00:40:08.522
Is it.
00:40:08.522 --> 00:40:10.289
Is the shit done the way we want it to?
00:40:10.289 --> 00:40:10.789
Yeah.
00:40:10.789 --> 00:40:12.589
If the answer is yes, then you've got trust.
00:40:12.589 --> 00:40:16.655
Then you've got, you've got, uh, I don't need, I don't need a trust.
00:40:16.655 --> 00:40:17.455
Fall with people.
00:40:17.455 --> 00:40:18.822
No, trust me.
00:40:18.822 --> 00:40:19.655
As heavy as I am.
00:40:19.655 --> 00:40:21.322
No one wants to catch me anyways.
00:40:22.489 --> 00:40:23.922
So yeah, yeah.
00:40:23.922 --> 00:40:25.522
No, I don't need any of that.
00:40:25.522 --> 00:40:29.855
No. What's the fastest way for a loser?
00:40:29.855 --> 00:40:33.055
For a leader to turn into a loser of trust?
00:40:33.055 --> 00:40:35.689
Oh, you blame your team for something that you own?
00:40:35.689 --> 00:40:36.789
Oh gosh.
00:40:36.789 --> 00:40:39.522
Have I like you've talked about blame so many times.
00:40:39.522 --> 00:40:41.522
Yeah, it's that to me.
00:40:41.522 --> 00:40:46.789
The other piece to that is too is when you say, hey, I'll look at that for you and you don't.
00:40:46.789 --> 00:40:49.555
uh. Um, yeah, it sounds small.
00:40:49.555 --> 00:40:51.989
No, that is one of the biggest things you can do.
00:40:51.989 --> 00:40:53.155
I would say it's worse than blame.
00:40:53.155 --> 00:40:54.855
Yeah, it's ignoring them.
00:40:54.855 --> 00:40:56.022
It's so easy to do.
00:40:56.022 --> 00:40:57.689
It's so easy to do.
00:40:57.689 --> 00:41:00.155
Um, if you do it, apologize immediately.
00:41:00.155 --> 00:41:01.422
Yeah, I try.
00:41:01.422 --> 00:41:03.789
It's why I try and put deadlines on things.
00:41:03.789 --> 00:41:08.355
So that way they have a way to come at me and say, hey, it's Thursday.
00:41:08.355 --> 00:41:09.555
You said Wednesday I'd have this.
00:41:09.555 --> 00:41:11.722
And I'm like, oh gosh, I'm sorry.
00:41:11.722 --> 00:41:12.755
And that is fixable.
00:41:12.755 --> 00:41:15.922
I mean, because I know as business owners, we run in a lot of different directions.
00:41:15.922 --> 00:41:19.155
But that one, when you miss it, you say, look, I am so sorry.
00:41:19.155 --> 00:41:20.155
I know you're waiting on this.
00:41:20.155 --> 00:41:21.189
Let me do it right now.
00:41:21.189 --> 00:41:21.989
Yep, yep.
00:41:21.989 --> 00:41:23.722
And it's got to be priority number one.
00:41:24.755 --> 00:41:29.289
Um, what's interesting is what we have next week.
00:41:29.289 --> 00:41:30.822
Yeah.
00:41:30.822 --> 00:41:32.089
Um, what is it.
00:41:32.089 --> 00:41:38.455
Listening to the other side and I felt like this constructive dialogue.
00:41:38.455 --> 00:41:40.089
Imagine that.
00:41:40.089 --> 00:41:40.455
Wow.
00:41:40.455 --> 00:41:41.122
Okay.
00:41:41.122 --> 00:41:46.389
What triggered this for me is I listened to a lot of podcasts that I hate.
00:41:46.389 --> 00:41:46.989
Yeah.
00:41:46.989 --> 00:41:48.589
Same.
00:41:48.589 --> 00:41:50.455
It's difficult.
00:41:50.455 --> 00:41:52.589
I usually don't do it before I come into the studio.
00:41:52.589 --> 00:41:54.289
Oh thank goodness.
00:41:54.289 --> 00:41:57.989
That being said, thanks for coming along for the ride this week.
00:41:57.989 --> 00:42:04.289
Uh, hopefully you trust us to talk about something again next week and the week after and the week after.
00:42:04.289 --> 00:42:09.889
We trust that you well, we have blind faith that you will tell us what you would like to see.
00:42:10.989 --> 00:42:11.589
Please.
00:42:11.589 --> 00:42:13.989
We'd love to hear your comments about it.
00:42:13.989 --> 00:42:15.389
Um, do us a favor.
00:42:15.389 --> 00:42:17.589
Go to business podcast dot com.
00:42:17.589 --> 00:42:18.989
As always, take care of yourself.
00:42:18.989 --> 00:42:21.755
Take care of someone else if you can to.
00:42:21.755 --> 00:42:24.555
We will see you very, very soon.