When Crisis Hits: How Leaders Stop the Bleeding Without Making It Worse

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I have to wait until we're thirty forty five, probably 90s in to start making poop jokes because we are talking about what happens during a crisis.
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And, you know, I really want to talk about I know you do the fan and the storm umbrella, the umbrella, all the things that involve the.
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Yeah, but we can't do that because of the L. But yeah, for those of you out there that have experienced a crisis, like what I'm experiencing right now internally, because I, what I actually want to say, you maybe you've had a crisis in your business.
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We're going to talk about how you should handle that.
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Stay tuned.
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She's the CEO.
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He's the marketing and operations guy.
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If it's broken, you need the business fix.
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So so like we're almost summer now.
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Yeah.
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Graduation, graduation.
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Um, no crisis there.
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You mean like as a parent?
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Like the emotional.
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My child is graduating.
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She's leaving forever.
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She's never gonna come back.
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We're never gonna see her again.
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This is terrible.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I'm in.
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I'm in internal family crisis.
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I'm just of my own doing, right?
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No, I get it.
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No one else feels the way I do, right?
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No, I it's not actually a crisis, but it's like.
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Oh, yeah, it is.
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Uh oh, maybe I need some extra skills to work through.
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Yeah.
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Add some more skills.
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My resilient operating system.
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I was about to say to me, what I'm wondering about this too is like, are your employees dreading this?
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Because they're like, Chrissy's Chrissy's upset.
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She's going to want to change something.
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Oh, well, probably, probably.
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But we're doing so much right now on the innovation side, I think I'm keeping them as occupied as I need to be.
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But like, if if you get a random gift certificate from your employees for a spa day.
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Yeah, then I would.
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Right.
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Or they're like, when are you going on vacation?
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Like, when do you leave?
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End of June.
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Two more weeks.
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Hold on guys, I'll be fine.
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Right?
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They have it on their calendars also.
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They absolutely do.
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And do they have it labeled as vacation?
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Oh, they have it labeled as Chrissy's gone.
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We can all wear shorts, right?
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It's vacation time because Chrissy's gone.
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Oh, I love this.
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Absolutely love this.
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Yeah.
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How about you?
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Uh, I'm just trying to get out.
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Motorcycle stuff.
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Motorcycle stuff.
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Motorcycle stuff?
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Yeah.
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Um, with all the rain that has been happening, um, throughout the spring.
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Mhm.
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Um, I'm beginning to wonder if the motorcycle purchase I made in January should have been a jet ski.
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Yeah, I, I, I echo that.
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Um, I'm kind of like.
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the other motorcycle probably would have been better off as a jet ski, but we'll see.
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I mean, and there's but it is what it is.
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And I joked with my father the other day about, uh, uh, mowing the lawn because, uh, it could be the last time it happens until like August when the swamp finally dries up.
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Exactly.
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Yeah, well, just comb it, just comb it, comb it down.
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Just comb it.
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Just the grass you're gonna sink.
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So you might as well just comb it, right?
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Just comb the grass to the side.
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Oh my goodness.
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Wow.
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That being said, um, most crisis's for small businesses like a little while ago, like Spirit Airlines.
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Yeah.
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Um, a little bit of a crisis for that.
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But, and to me, like, that's, I, my quick opinion on that is let them die.
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Um, and the big reason being is, is that's capitalism.
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Yeah.
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Um, they made some bad decisions.
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They're three percent of the airline industry.
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Like if they go to bankruptcy, they will come back as a part of another company or they will come back stronger.
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Yeah.
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Um, it most people don't see that in their current small businesses.
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No, it's a little different.
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It's a lot different.
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Um, and there's so many things that can happen.
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And I mean, it could be a server going down.
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It could be a key like leader or a sales person or public facing person quitting.
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Um, it could be a public mistake.
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Um, all I can think of is the obscene thing that was on the paper that the they that Dunder Mifflin sold in the office, um, like this as, as we were going through and writing some of this episode, like I had that episode of The office in mind and like, how did, how did they handle this correctly?
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And how did they handle this poorly?
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Yeah.
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Um, I'm not going to bring someone by with a big check.
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Yeah.
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Um, I'm not a, I'm not a fan of the big checks.
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Um, really like we've got to look define internal.
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Um, there's an operational collapse, there's shadow workflows coming to light or massive drop in team morale.
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Yeah.
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Um, we've all seen those happen external.
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Those are the ones that the public sees right off the bat.
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The PR disasters, the legal threats.
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Um, those are always fun.
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Um, or a public failure of brand promise.
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Hey, we're gonna do the thing.
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Um, we work comes to mind here for some reason.
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Aha.
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Okay.
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That being said, we're hoping you're not WeWork.
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We're hoping you're not Enron.
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Um, we're going to talk about that systematic triage process to stop the bleeding, stabilize the patient, your business and like protect the brand because you can come out like contrary to popular belief, issues like this can be a blessing.
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They absolutely can be.
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Um, you have, they have to be very, very well done.
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And I'm going to go through an example of that, um, when the house is on fire and I believe you've experienced that I have.
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Literally, literally, figuratively, literally and figuratively.
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Um, that's why I made sure to stick that in there.
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Thanks.
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How does like the CEO maintain that long term vision without getting like sucked into the micro firefighting of like, okay, someone lit a match.
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We don't need to like throw a big wet blanket on it.
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We need to blow the match out.
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So like operation is going to take care of that.
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The, the, the match, the things like that.
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How do you take care of the long term things?
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How do you how do you say like, look, we need to look beyond tomorrow.
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Yeah.
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So I think a lot of times people think like CEO doesn't always need to jump into the fire, but I'm gonna be a little contrarian.
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I think that you should step into the fire, just not in the way that most CEOs usually do, because oftentimes they get really involved in the activity of operations.
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Most CEOs I see like when they really try and get involved in that, the only thing that they do is they light themselves on fire.
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Exactly.
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So we're going to talk about how not to light yourself on fire.
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You're going to jump into the fire.
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You're not going to light yourself on fire.
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And you do that.
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You really have to anchor in calm and clarity.
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And so I've got three R's for crisis leadership.
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So we regulate, we reveal and we rebuild.
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Ooh, yeah.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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So super.
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I mean, easy to say, probably a little harder to do.
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So I mean, the first one, especially, especially the first one, especially for every CEO on the planet is regulate.
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And the first job of a CEO in crisis is not fixing.
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It's regulating.
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So if I am frantic or reactive, the entire organization is going to amplify that.
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They amplify your mood as a CEO.
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If I'm calm and contained, the organization is going to stabilize a lot faster.
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Your goal as CEO or business owner in regulating is to get everyone to neutral as fast as you can.
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So in crisis, your tone is your team's temperature.
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So you drop that temperature as fast as you can.
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Now don't freeze it out.
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It's okay to have emotion.
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It's okay before all of your like Christie told me to be an automaton.
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I did not regulate yourself.
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Bring it down.
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This is a recorded message, right?
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No. Not that.
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Yeah.
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No, not at all.
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So regulate your emotions.
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So remember your tone becomes team's temperature.
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So the second is reveal.
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And that is to reveal what matters.
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All right.
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So not every detail or every data point but three primary things.
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What happened what we know and what we're doing next.
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All right.
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And this is where I think a lot of leaders do it wrong because they either overshare and create panic and I've been one of those or they under share and create speculation.
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I've been one of those two same.
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It's just because you just you do.
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Especially when you're, if you're new into that role, or even if you're a manager and you're new into that managerial role, it's really easy to either overshare or overshare.
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So you've got to kind of, you know, reveal what is important.
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So those three things are a big deal.
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Silence creates stories.
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Clarity really creates stability.
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And we've talked about, you know, to be clear is to be kind.
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It works in a crisis too.
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That seems like it's like a mantra.
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It is.
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It's universal.
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So we've got we've regulated ourselves.
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We reveal the information that is important.
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And then the third is to rebuild.
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And CEOs real job is not to fix the immediate issue.
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It's really to rebuild the system that allowed whatever it was to happen to happen.
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All right.
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Operation stops the bleeding.
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CEO makes sure that the organization doesn't deal with this type of issue next time.
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So leadership prevents that next injury.
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So in my opinion, Josh, a CEO really only has three things that they are responsible for.
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Um, everything else is noise.
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So they are supposed to hold standards, protect the organization and prepare for the future.
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Oh yeah, I like that.
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So reasonable job.
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It's a simple job.
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Hold your standards.
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So it's rules for thee and for me.
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Protect the organization.
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So you are helping it see around corners.
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You're hopefully preventing a lot of these crises from happening.
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And then you're preparing for the future again, making sure that you're doing that, that work.
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Rebuilding is protection and preparation.
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I know I totally see it that way too.
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It really is.
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And it's that it's funny.
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So many people want to make that CEO job tough.
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But really, these are your three primary responsibilities.
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That's it.
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They are.
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Yeah.
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It's not I would say it's hard.
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It's not hard if you stay focused.
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Yeah.
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So yeah.
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Interesting.
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Um. Psychological safety usually goes away.
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Um, when, when, when the going gets tough sometimes.
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And once again this is where regulate comes in.
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But like when the going gets tough, some people will get frantic.
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Um. Bob, you idiot, you screwed that up.
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Um, how, how do you keep the team and lead them through that panic?
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So they're not like, oh, I'm hunting for job tomorrow.
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We're out of business on Thursday.
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Or they don't start that meeting after the meeting like, hey, Chris Christie's losing her shit.
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We're gonna, we've gotta or our customer.
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We lost our biggest customer.
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We did this.
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We did like, this is okay, I'm going to send my resume like before.
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Yeah, before they all send it to indeed.
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Correct.
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Right.
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Right before you go in and like before you packed up their desks, I was about to say before you open LinkedIn and see every one of your employees has opened to work.
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What do you do to kind of ensure that psychological safety?
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Yeah.
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So, you know, in crisis, pressure goes up, safety usually goes down.
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So it's leaders can unintentionally destroy trust.
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A lot of the time I've seen it.
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So let's go back to regulate reveal and rebuild.
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Okay.
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So regulate.
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If I react out of bad news with frustration or blame, congratulations.
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I've just taught the team to hide the next problem.
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Yep.
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All right.
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If I freak out and start acting like Chicken Little, the sky is falling.
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I don't care if it is.
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No one really follows Chicken Little.
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So you've got to figure out what the middle is within your emotions.
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We're not going to blame people, and we're not going to run around like Chicken Little.
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There is a middle road.
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I know it's hard sometimes to find it, but as a CEO, as a business owner, that's your job.
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The sky could be falling.
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Don't say anything until it's on the ground.
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Well.
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And even if you can say it in a way that says, you know what?
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The sky may be falling, but we're going to figure it out.
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We've dealt with those types of situations in the past.
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Let's catch this.
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Let's catch this.
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We're going to take a minute.
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We're going to talk about it, or I'm going to take a minute.
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I'm going to go to my office.
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I'm going to regulate my own emotions, do whatever I need to do.
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The way you said that is I'm going to take a minute.
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I'm going to go to my own office and drink.
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No. They cry, they yell.
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I may need to, like, write some things down.
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I may scream into a pillow.
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I may lay on the floor for a few minutes and breathe.
00:14:50.560 --> 00:14:53.960
But I'm going to regulate my emotions because again, your tone is a temperature.
00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:55.192
So we regulate.
00:14:55.192 --> 00:14:56.560
Second is we reveal.
00:14:56.560 --> 00:15:02.826
So I have to tell the truth quickly enough so that people don't fill in the gaps, right?
00:15:02.826 --> 00:15:06.293
And at the same time, I have to hold the line as the leader not to overshare.
00:15:06.293 --> 00:15:14.192
So it's holding that space, regulating my emotions and revealing the amount of truth that everyone needs to keep moving forward.
00:15:14.192 --> 00:15:16.560
So we regulate, we reveal, and then rebuild.
00:15:16.560 --> 00:15:17.526
All right.
00:15:17.526 --> 00:15:21.759
If you've lost trust, you have to get it back as fast as possible.
00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:22.126
Yes.
00:15:22.126 --> 00:15:24.926
This isn't like, oh, well, we'll work on rebuilding trust.
00:15:24.926 --> 00:15:25.826
No crickets.
00:15:25.826 --> 00:15:27.692
No no no no. It happens now.
00:15:27.692 --> 00:15:29.926
And you have to do that, especially when things have gone wrong.
00:15:29.926 --> 00:15:32.093
So you know, psychological safety.
00:15:32.093 --> 00:15:32.860
We've talked about this.
00:15:32.860 --> 00:15:33.926
It doesn't mean being soft.
00:15:33.926 --> 00:15:35.759
It doesn't mean removing pressure.
00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:38.460
It means removing the punishment for honesty.
00:15:38.460 --> 00:15:48.426
And this is really where as an organization, if you're in crisis, you have to have everyone on the same page and being able to share the ugly truth with one another as quickly as possible.
00:15:48.426 --> 00:15:48.926
Mhm.
00:15:48.926 --> 00:15:59.526
Another thing I would say is as it as it relates to rebuilding, the same thing goes with as you rebuild psychological safety, you also rebuild your confidence as a business owner.
00:15:59.526 --> 00:16:06.026
So one of the most important things that we have to protect as business owners is our entrepreneurial confidence.
00:16:06.026 --> 00:16:07.860
So Dan Sullivan talks about this all the time.
00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:12.259
So you are going to deal with hard things as a business owner, as an entrepreneur.
00:16:12.259 --> 00:16:17.593
Not everybody wants to like make payroll every week and not pay themselves.
00:16:17.593 --> 00:16:19.426
I mean, these are things that happen.
00:16:19.426 --> 00:16:21.225
You can't let it completely destroy you.
00:16:21.225 --> 00:16:23.460
So you don't want to move forward or make another decision.
00:16:23.460 --> 00:16:26.026
You have got to make sure that you protect your confidence.
00:16:26.026 --> 00:16:28.560
Same thing also goes for your team.
00:16:28.560 --> 00:16:33.793
So if people feel safer staying quiet than speaking up, your crisis has just doubled in size.
00:16:33.793 --> 00:16:34.793
Yep.
00:16:34.793 --> 00:16:35.960
And that goes for your team.
00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:39.793
That also goes for the small entrepreneurial voice inside your business owner head.
00:16:39.793 --> 00:16:43.225
You have to make sure that you protect it and rebuild it.
00:16:43.225 --> 00:16:43.926
Yeah.
00:16:43.926 --> 00:16:47.160
When since we talked about trust.
00:16:47.160 --> 00:16:47.725
Yeah.
00:16:47.725 --> 00:16:50.426
When that's broken externally.
00:16:50.426 --> 00:16:51.225
Mhm.
00:16:51.225 --> 00:17:01.460
As the CEO, what's their role in owning the mistake versus protecting the company like personnel and like legal standings?
00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:04.326
Okay.
00:17:04.326 --> 00:17:04.960
Yeah.
00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:07.526
The look on your face and just the.
00:17:07.526 --> 00:17:10.725
You did a nice job of not doing it into the mic, but just the.
00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:14.593
Phrasing for a minute.
00:17:14.593 --> 00:17:15.559
Yeah.
00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:17.526
These are the things that we train for.
00:17:17.526 --> 00:17:24.725
Um, I almost feel like if the if the studio seats had a seatbelt, you would have buckled up already.
00:17:24.725 --> 00:17:28.893
Um, so owning the mistake is not the same as exposing the company.
00:17:28.893 --> 00:17:29.225
Agreed.
00:17:29.225 --> 00:17:29.526
Yeah.
00:17:29.526 --> 00:17:32.692
And that's where leadership maturity really shows up.
00:17:32.692 --> 00:17:35.660
So you talk about like how to handle this.
00:17:35.660 --> 00:17:41.225
This is I mean, yeah, it's buckle up because you got to have responsibility without being reckless in this situation.
00:17:41.225 --> 00:17:46.160
You may want to be like, it's this person's fault, this is what happened this, or you want to share the whole awful.
00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:50.359
No. So again, we go back to the three R's, which I think are really great.
00:17:50.359 --> 00:17:55.925
So we regulate, which means we don't respond emotionally.
00:17:55.925 --> 00:17:57.826
We respond intentionally.
00:17:57.826 --> 00:17:58.559
Yeah.
00:17:58.559 --> 00:17:59.960
So you've got to regulate yourself.
00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:03.160
And then revealing again, it's pretty simple.
00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:07.792
It's what happened, what you own and what you're fixing.
00:18:07.792 --> 00:18:10.225
And you answer those three questions succinctly.
00:18:10.225 --> 00:18:14.225
If you do not have the ability to do that, get coaching around it.
00:18:14.225 --> 00:18:28.160
This is when you do call your lawyer or your insurance company or someone who deals with crisis PR, because they will help you distill it down so that you don't create a bigger problem for yourself.
00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:28.725
Correct.
00:18:28.725 --> 00:18:34.460
So that's the big issue because we we do not want to overexplain and we do not want to blame.
00:18:34.460 --> 00:18:35.125
No.
00:18:35.125 --> 00:18:36.059
Mhm.
00:18:36.059 --> 00:18:37.625
And then the third is rebuild.
00:18:37.625 --> 00:18:41.259
Again, most important part because you show the system fixed.
00:18:41.259 --> 00:18:47.759
So because, you know, I love it when people apologize and don't do anything about it.
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:48.625
Sorry we messed up.
00:18:48.625 --> 00:18:49.893
We're going to continue to go forward.
00:18:49.893 --> 00:18:50.559
We continue.
00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:50.826
Yeah.
00:18:50.826 --> 00:18:52.559
You talked about Spirit Airlines before.
00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:54.759
Sorry, sorry we abandoned you.
00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:56.660
We're going to continue to abandon you.
00:18:59.125 --> 00:19:00.226
Phenomenal example.
00:19:00.226 --> 00:19:00.360
Yeah.
00:19:00.360 --> 00:19:02.625
So I mean apology without action is just PR noise.
00:19:02.625 --> 00:19:02.925
Okay.
00:19:02.925 --> 00:19:04.960
We we don't just say something.
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:06.559
We have an action plan attached to it.
00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:09.125
And this is what also rebuilds your team's confidence.
00:19:09.125 --> 00:19:14.460
It rebuilds your confidence and it rebuilds the confidence of customers and the public.
00:19:14.460 --> 00:19:18.992
So an apology without a process change is really just a performance.
00:19:18.992 --> 00:19:21.259
Oh, I like that one.
00:19:21.259 --> 00:19:22.726
You say that in parenting too?
00:19:22.726 --> 00:19:23.326
Yeah.
00:19:24.992 --> 00:19:27.660
Or in any relationship, an apology without a process.
00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:29.559
Change is just a performance.
00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:31.793
Wow, I don't know.
00:19:31.793 --> 00:19:33.759
I don't know if the missus wants to hear that.
00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:36.526
Yeah.
00:19:36.526 --> 00:19:39.759
So you know, here summary of all things.
00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:41.625
So we regulate.
00:19:41.625 --> 00:19:43.759
So in crisis, your tone becomes the team's temperature.
00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:46.160
We take the temperature down internally for yourself.
00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:49.593
You emotionally regulate so you can lead your team revealing.
00:19:49.593 --> 00:19:51.125
Then silence creates stories.
00:19:51.125 --> 00:19:52.160
Clarity creates stability.
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:55.326
And we know that crisis reveals what culture was already hiding.
00:19:55.326 --> 00:19:56.726
And that third is rebuild.
00:19:56.726 --> 00:19:59.793
So apology without action is just performance.
00:19:59.793 --> 00:20:03.326
What which is why we fix the system, not just the symptom.
00:20:03.326 --> 00:20:09.960
And so here's also a thing as it relates to speed, because I think A follow up question would be like, how fast should I respond?
00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:19.893
Because as a business owner, you probably want to respond like three seconds after the email happened or the news story hit or, oh my gosh, yes, I see it all the time.
00:20:19.893 --> 00:20:20.059
Yeah.
00:20:20.059 --> 00:20:25.360
And I think sometimes not sometimes most times leaders get too focused on speed in crisis.
00:20:25.360 --> 00:20:27.059
Now, now, now now now.
00:20:27.059 --> 00:20:29.526
Yes, you need to respond quickly.
00:20:29.526 --> 00:20:34.660
But if you respond fast and wrong, you are creating a second crisis.
00:20:34.660 --> 00:20:41.625
It is okay to walk to your office, close the door for a minute, gather yourself, and move forward.
00:20:41.625 --> 00:20:48.526
So I would much rather see calm, clear and correct than just fast because fast usually breaks things worse.
00:20:48.526 --> 00:20:49.726
Yes.
00:20:49.726 --> 00:20:50.226
Yeah.
00:20:50.226 --> 00:20:51.526
No. You don't like.
00:20:51.526 --> 00:20:51.893
Yeah.
00:20:51.893 --> 00:20:54.526
No. Be thoughtful about what you're fixing.
00:20:54.526 --> 00:20:55.425
Yeah.
00:20:55.425 --> 00:21:02.226
So we talked about from a CEO perspective how in crisis situations, I mean you.
00:21:05.360 --> 00:21:07.625
But let's try this again because I'm like, wait a second.
00:21:08.660 --> 00:21:13.093
Let's talk about you because my favorite subject.
00:21:13.093 --> 00:21:14.526
That's true.
00:21:14.526 --> 00:21:15.726
I don't disagree.
00:21:15.726 --> 00:21:20.259
Um, I, I have to emotionally regulate and move forward.
00:21:20.259 --> 00:21:22.992
I have gotten really good at staying calm.
00:21:22.992 --> 00:21:25.293
But I will say like, you are creepy calm.
00:21:25.293 --> 00:21:30.860
Yeah, like you're also direct and deliberate, but you are creepy calm in a crisis.
00:21:30.860 --> 00:21:34.960
Like there are times where I'm like, I might need to call Josh for this one, right?
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:36.893
He's just going to sit there and act like nothing happened.
00:21:36.893 --> 00:21:37.226
Yeah.
00:21:37.226 --> 00:21:41.860
So when you're in crisis mode, what are you looking at from an operations standpoint?
00:21:41.860 --> 00:21:44.526
First off, I mean, treat it like the E.R..
00:21:44.526 --> 00:21:45.793
Stop the bleeding.
00:21:45.793 --> 00:21:46.259
Yeah.
00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:49.826
Um, someone comes into the E.R., like, let's say it's a gunshot wound.
00:21:49.826 --> 00:21:50.393
Mhm.
00:21:50.393 --> 00:21:51.992
Um, what's the first thing they do?
00:21:51.992 --> 00:21:52.860
Stop the bleeding.
00:21:52.860 --> 00:21:53.059
Yeah.
00:21:53.059 --> 00:21:54.360
They're not digging the bullet out.
00:21:54.360 --> 00:21:55.893
They're not like, hey, what do we got to do?
00:21:55.893 --> 00:21:58.160
Like, like, let's stabilize.
00:21:58.160 --> 00:21:59.625
We stabilize the patient, right?
00:21:59.625 --> 00:22:05.192
Let's make it so this isn't this isn't spewing blood all over the room.
00:22:05.192 --> 00:22:09.793
To me, this is where I. And I'm going to go back to psychological safety on this.
00:22:09.793 --> 00:22:20.326
There's like any employee, regardless of where they're at, they should have the authority and the obligation to stop production, stop whatever the moment they see something going sideways.
00:22:20.326 --> 00:22:39.259
Um, and sometimes the machine may stop and you're not going to like it, but I would rather typically have it stop a little bit too often because it's better to face the production delay than it is to let the faulty or incorrect item make it out the door.
00:22:39.259 --> 00:22:48.793
Ask Ford, ask, ask, Dodge, and ask Toyota what they're all dealing with right now in terms of recalls.
00:22:48.793 --> 00:22:49.460
Oh yeah.
00:22:49.460 --> 00:22:54.559
It's because they let faulty items go out the door.
00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:58.759
It's a bad process as they've all rushed through and they said, we can.
00:22:58.759 --> 00:22:59.925
We can do this.
00:22:59.925 --> 00:23:00.826
There was plenty.
00:23:00.826 --> 00:23:05.960
I'm reading about plenty of red flags that were raised internally that are like, hmm, this isn't going to work.
00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:06.492
Yeah.
00:23:06.492 --> 00:23:12.259
Um, so that is, to me, it's the big thing having it so people can pull that cord to stop the line.
00:23:12.259 --> 00:23:14.625
Granted, I realize it's a little bit different for Ford.
00:23:14.625 --> 00:23:19.093
It's a little more difficult, but in most small businesses to be able to pull that.
00:23:19.093 --> 00:23:23.893
Now to me, I'm going to look at the systematic fix instead of the symptom fix.
00:23:23.893 --> 00:23:28.059
And what I always like to say about that is I have a headache.
00:23:28.059 --> 00:23:30.326
Is it a headache or a stroke?
00:23:30.326 --> 00:23:33.026
Because the treatment for that, it's very different.
00:23:33.026 --> 00:23:35.526
Very, very different.
00:23:35.526 --> 00:23:36.893
Um, yeah.
00:23:36.893 --> 00:23:41.293
And this is where I encourage people to ask, like act like a toddler.
00:23:41.293 --> 00:23:44.826
Um, you should ask at least five whys.
00:23:44.826 --> 00:23:45.259
Mhm.
00:23:45.259 --> 00:23:45.759
What?
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:46.425
Why?
00:23:46.425 --> 00:23:48.059
Like beyond the surface level.
00:23:48.059 --> 00:23:51.526
If like, let's say the customer served a wrong order, don't ask who did it.
00:23:51.526 --> 00:23:52.526
You ask why.
00:23:53.726 --> 00:23:57.559
And then when they say, oh, well, this like Bob screwed it up.
00:23:57.559 --> 00:23:59.526
Well, why did Bob screw it up?
00:23:59.526 --> 00:24:01.026
Not just Bob screwed it up.
00:24:01.026 --> 00:24:01.759
Why did Bob.
00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:03.059
Because you're taking away blame.
00:24:03.059 --> 00:24:03.759
Correct.
00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:04.992
You're taking away blame.
00:24:04.992 --> 00:24:09.925
So now you've finally hit the failure in the operating.
00:24:09.925 --> 00:24:13.759
Either the procedure or the process, or you're hitting that in there.
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:17.759
But you're you're you're taking it all the way down to that.
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:21.759
The, the problem is, is if you've got it.
00:24:21.759 --> 00:25:04.522
So like you should get it down to process instead of the people that are breaking it.
00:25:04.522 --> 00:25:11.789
Um, now if a person goes outside of the process, then that's still an operational problem, but it's just with the person.
00:25:11.789 --> 00:25:21.056
Um, the other thing that I want to, that I really want to say with this is if a person can break the machine, you, you've got a poorly designed machine.
00:25:21.056 --> 00:25:21.789
Yeah.
00:25:21.789 --> 00:25:29.289
Um, if, if one person being a little bit off breaks everything, you, you got to look at your processes again.
00:25:29.289 --> 00:25:35.289
So to me addressing that, why we had to pull the red cord immediately, that's the priority.
00:25:35.289 --> 00:25:41.355
Now, if it goes out beyond that, that becomes more of a marketing and an operations issue that we're going to dive into.
00:25:42.423 --> 00:25:47.889
The other thing is I'm going to play off of your regulate model, what you mandate.
00:25:47.889 --> 00:25:50.556
You said that multiple times.
00:25:50.556 --> 00:25:53.222
If you are creepy, calm and deliberate, deliberate.
00:25:53.222 --> 00:26:06.355
I have found your team typically mirrors that if I act even a little bit frantic, my team is like, oh, oh, this is this is bad, this is very bad.
00:26:06.355 --> 00:26:07.789
This is very bad.
00:26:07.789 --> 00:26:17.789
Um, because they're so used to seeing me as like the, this straight deliberate, like, so yeah, when they see a little bit of elevation, they're like, uh, oh, uh oh.
00:26:17.789 --> 00:26:20.889
So no. And that to me is why it's like, okay, look, this sucks.
00:26:20.889 --> 00:26:21.690
This is bad.
00:26:21.690 --> 00:26:40.589
And saying that out loud is okay, but making sure that you're, you're calm in how you're going about because like you said, I have seen so many people try and fix problems that they fixed the problems with all the strategy of a toddler, and they do it in a panic.
00:26:40.589 --> 00:26:44.955
So they fix the problem and create eight more breaks on down the line.
00:26:44.955 --> 00:26:53.155
Yeah, because crisis can be a really good teachable moment if you can navigate it correctly.
00:26:53.155 --> 00:26:54.923
It one hundred percent can be.
00:26:54.923 --> 00:27:08.123
And part of it is too is in that regulation is like if you go about it in a calm way, realizing like, if it's an angry Facebook post, so many people, I watch this all the time in marketing.
00:27:08.123 --> 00:27:14.522
So someone sees an angry Facebook post and they've got to respond to it the next three minutes.
00:27:14.522 --> 00:27:17.322
I'm like, no, no, no, no, you can respond to it in four hours.
00:27:17.322 --> 00:27:18.722
No one cares.
00:27:18.722 --> 00:27:27.289
Um, with this going back a little bit to me, the, the who and everything like that should the real stories in the data.
00:27:27.289 --> 00:27:27.990
Yeah.
00:27:27.990 --> 00:27:41.855
Um, look at hard numbers with word data is what I like to call it, because if there was a problem that Bob had, ask the five people around Bob as well as Bob to figure out what happened.
00:27:41.855 --> 00:27:42.722
Yeah.
00:27:42.722 --> 00:27:54.056
Um, there is a great story that, uh, Neil deGrasse Tyson has about being and look it up sometime about being in court as a juror.
00:27:54.056 --> 00:27:57.589
And he talked about how people don't remember things that just happened very well.
00:27:57.589 --> 00:27:58.289
Correct.
00:27:58.289 --> 00:28:05.089
And so if you take four or five different stories about this, you're probably going to be able to assemble the story.
00:28:05.089 --> 00:28:05.690
Yeah.
00:28:06.722 --> 00:28:07.556
So you made a point.
00:28:07.556 --> 00:28:17.089
You're talking about, you know, Ford and Toyota and different some different things that were operational issues creating operational crisis.
00:28:17.089 --> 00:28:25.522
And I was thinking, as you were talking about that, about Boeing and how Boeing wasn't an operational crisis.
00:28:25.522 --> 00:28:28.655
And I would say also Ford when they had the explorer.
00:28:28.655 --> 00:28:29.123
Yeah.
00:28:29.123 --> 00:28:29.789
Oh, yeah.
00:28:29.789 --> 00:28:36.655
Those were those were C-suite level of we have created an environment where no one is able to speak up.
00:28:36.655 --> 00:28:49.123
It's one thing when you speak up and you don't speak up fast enough, it's another when you speak up or it just gets absolutely buried because we, we cannot talk about the fact that we make mistakes and it's really perfect.
00:28:49.123 --> 00:28:50.655
We're all perfect.
00:28:50.655 --> 00:28:52.423
So it's the guy next to me.
00:28:52.423 --> 00:28:53.089
He's the screw up.
00:28:53.089 --> 00:28:54.089
Exactly.
00:28:54.089 --> 00:29:02.190
Having talked about, you know, Boeing, Ford, when they had those issues, they they got really stuck in some PR nightmares.
00:29:02.190 --> 00:29:02.655
Right.
00:29:02.655 --> 00:29:10.289
Oh my God, did they ever they it didn't matter how long they how how quickly they were able to stabilize their machine.
00:29:10.289 --> 00:29:11.623
They had ripples.
00:29:11.623 --> 00:29:15.022
So I want to talk about reputation.
00:29:15.022 --> 00:29:16.455
All right.
00:29:16.455 --> 00:29:17.623
See, look at me.
00:29:17.623 --> 00:29:18.322
Yeah.
00:29:18.322 --> 00:29:19.255
Really landing a plane.
00:29:19.255 --> 00:29:19.822
Okay.
00:29:19.822 --> 00:29:22.490
So machine stabilized with or without the door.
00:29:22.490 --> 00:29:26.855
Um, without the door, apparently you can do that and it's perfectly fine.
00:29:26.855 --> 00:29:27.322
All right.
00:29:27.322 --> 00:29:30.190
so we've stabilized the organization or the machine.
00:29:30.190 --> 00:29:30.822
Okay.
00:29:30.822 --> 00:29:32.722
We have to look at reputation.
00:29:32.722 --> 00:29:33.056
Yep.
00:29:33.056 --> 00:29:39.123
How should the marketing and PR piece be handled both internally for the team and externally for the public.
00:29:39.123 --> 00:29:42.755
And how do we prevent the brand from being permanently stained?
00:29:42.755 --> 00:29:50.123
It's funny, and I'm so glad you brought up the internal and external piece, because to me, you really need to address it internally, internally first.
00:29:50.123 --> 00:29:55.755
Yeah, I agree internally becomes externally very, very quickly.
00:29:55.755 --> 00:29:59.822
Uh, so to me, like the first thing is preventing sabotage.
00:29:59.822 --> 00:30:03.322
If you don't provide information, the team will fill it in their own.
00:30:03.322 --> 00:30:03.755
Yeah.
00:30:03.755 --> 00:30:08.423
Um, and then tell the team first, here's the problem.
00:30:08.423 --> 00:30:09.755
Here's the fix.
00:30:09.755 --> 00:30:11.490
Here's your role in this.
00:30:11.490 --> 00:30:15.322
Here's how we are going to make this better.
00:30:15.322 --> 00:30:17.589
Here's how we are going to fix this.
00:30:17.589 --> 00:30:20.322
And once again, this isn't a bob screwed up.
00:30:20.322 --> 00:30:22.623
So you're all gonna have to work overtime.
00:30:22.623 --> 00:30:23.722
That's not it.
00:30:23.722 --> 00:30:27.490
It's hey, we've got a problem here that we need to address.
00:30:27.490 --> 00:30:33.855
And once again, the story internally and externally needs to be somewhat the same.
00:30:33.855 --> 00:30:37.289
But really it's once again, it's got to be an honest.
00:30:37.289 --> 00:30:38.490
Here's the problem.
00:30:38.490 --> 00:30:40.990
Here's the fix and here's your role.
00:30:40.990 --> 00:30:50.322
Um, that's it when you put it that simply internally, it's something that people can latch on to and they're like, oh, here's how I can make sure that I have a job tomorrow.
00:30:50.322 --> 00:30:53.722
Um, and once again, it shows them that there's a way out of this.
00:30:53.722 --> 00:30:54.355
Yeah.
00:30:54.355 --> 00:30:56.990
Um, the trust over pizza principle.
00:30:56.990 --> 00:31:05.089
I love this because you need to include the team in both the communication about the solution and the development about the solution itself.
00:31:05.089 --> 00:31:08.556
It, it's going to demonstrate that operational trust.
00:31:08.556 --> 00:31:10.623
Hey, guys, we screwed this up.
00:31:10.623 --> 00:31:12.722
I need your help to fix it.
00:31:12.722 --> 00:31:14.889
Like there's all the we.
00:31:14.889 --> 00:31:17.255
And I need your help to fix it.
00:31:17.255 --> 00:31:20.889
Like, once again, it's it's I need your help.
00:31:20.889 --> 00:31:22.089
I trust you in this.
00:31:22.089 --> 00:31:27.755
I trust how you're going to fix this, I trust how you're going to help us fix this because you're the ones doing it.
00:31:27.755 --> 00:31:33.755
Um, if you'd like, you guys screwed this up and now I have to fix it, but.
00:31:33.755 --> 00:31:35.022
No, no. Gone.
00:31:35.022 --> 00:31:35.822
Done.
00:31:35.822 --> 00:31:36.190
That's.
00:31:36.190 --> 00:31:38.423
I mean, it's just, it just ends right there.
00:31:38.423 --> 00:31:43.455
And so this is the way to bring the team back in like, hey, this is screwed up.
00:31:44.822 --> 00:31:45.990
Like I need your help.
00:31:45.990 --> 00:31:46.455
Yeah.
00:31:46.455 --> 00:31:49.955
Um, whatever I can do to get your help, that's the big thing.
00:31:49.955 --> 00:31:59.289
Um, when it comes to external marketing, um, this is where so many of them screw it up because they're like, ah, the people don't know any better.
00:31:59.289 --> 00:32:02.455
Um, they assume the population is idiots.
00:32:02.455 --> 00:32:03.155
Mhm.
00:32:03.155 --> 00:32:09.423
Um. Just the uncomfortable look on your face.
00:32:11.955 --> 00:32:13.822
I have some thoughts.
00:32:13.822 --> 00:32:17.755
Let's hear, let's hear your thought about them assuming the population is idiots.
00:32:17.755 --> 00:32:18.855
Because I feel like.
00:32:18.855 --> 00:32:20.455
I feel like that's what people do.
00:32:20.455 --> 00:32:21.222
That's what they do.
00:32:21.222 --> 00:32:24.690
And I think that part of it too is you can visually see it.
00:32:24.690 --> 00:32:32.556
You can you can visually see when an organization has not addressed the internal communication in the external in part.
00:32:32.556 --> 00:32:42.789
So like when there's a sixty minutes and everyone's interviewing the engineers that screwed up and they are dark and you cannot see their faces, you know that they still don't admit that there's an issue, right?
00:32:42.789 --> 00:32:45.322
There's no, there's no acceptance of that issue.
00:32:45.322 --> 00:32:49.623
And so when when you see them all and they're like, yeah, we screwed up, but were people.
00:32:49.623 --> 00:32:55.623
And when we make mistakes and this is how we're going to rectify it, and you can visually see those people, then it's transparent.
00:32:55.623 --> 00:32:59.722
So I'm just, I'm thinking like, oh, when people have done it wrong versus when they haven't.
00:32:59.722 --> 00:33:01.855
I mean, it's, this isn't easy.
00:33:01.855 --> 00:33:03.056
No it's not.
00:33:03.056 --> 00:33:09.955
No. To me, the, the, once again, the regulate but strike fast with something.
00:33:09.955 --> 00:33:10.490
Yes.
00:33:10.490 --> 00:33:13.955
Um, if you don't speak quickly, the story is going to get written for you.
00:33:13.955 --> 00:33:17.623
Oh, so right or wrong and way faster now than it used to be.
00:33:17.623 --> 00:33:17.923
Correct.
00:33:17.923 --> 00:33:21.190
I mean, ten years ago, you maybe you had twenty four to forty eight hours.
00:33:21.190 --> 00:33:22.990
Like now you got like ten minutes.
00:33:22.990 --> 00:33:23.623
Yes.
00:33:23.623 --> 00:33:29.923
So but to me, the speaking quickly does not mean spilling your guts.
00:33:29.923 --> 00:33:31.022
Doesn't mean don't be stupid.
00:33:31.022 --> 00:33:31.255
Yes.
00:33:31.255 --> 00:33:31.722
Right.
00:33:31.722 --> 00:33:39.655
And to me, speaking quickly can be like, hey, there's an like, I'll take the Boeing issue, for example.
00:33:39.655 --> 00:33:42.190
There's an issue with doors flying off of planes.
00:33:42.190 --> 00:33:45.089
We are conducting a full investigation.
00:33:45.089 --> 00:33:49.822
We are looking I am I hope to have something for you in four days.
00:33:49.822 --> 00:33:51.690
Now you've put a timeline on it.
00:33:51.690 --> 00:33:54.690
Now you've said we're doing an internal investigation to this.
00:33:54.690 --> 00:34:03.022
You've addressed things in a way that once again puts a timeline to it, and we're corroborating with everyone.
00:34:03.022 --> 00:34:07.289
But you have to do that in earnest, and you have to do that pretty much instantly.
00:34:07.289 --> 00:34:07.690
Yes.
00:34:07.690 --> 00:34:12.056
Boeing, the first door that flew off there, like a happens, right.
00:34:12.056 --> 00:34:13.023
That's just once.
00:34:13.023 --> 00:34:15.289
Just once wasn't in the United States.
00:34:15.289 --> 00:34:16.222
We didn't deal with the FAA.
00:34:16.222 --> 00:34:17.722
It's no big deal, Right?
00:34:17.722 --> 00:34:19.056
No, it is a big deal, right?
00:34:19.056 --> 00:34:24.023
No. So to me, that is the thing where it's like, this has to be addressed right away.
00:34:24.023 --> 00:34:24.690
And the problem?
00:34:24.690 --> 00:34:26.322
I know exactly how that went.
00:34:26.322 --> 00:34:28.423
And you do too, is it just happened.
00:34:28.423 --> 00:34:35.590
Once we've got a problem, we know we asked for this design change that is going to cause a bunch of issues.
00:34:35.590 --> 00:34:37.956
What can we get away with here?
00:34:37.956 --> 00:34:43.155
And the once again, people can tell the attitude, what can we get away with here?
00:34:43.155 --> 00:34:45.690
Like they can smell it from a thousand miles away.
00:34:45.690 --> 00:34:47.422
They can smell it from thirty thousand feet.
00:34:47.422 --> 00:34:47.922
Mhm.
00:34:47.922 --> 00:34:50.789
Um nice job.
00:34:50.789 --> 00:34:59.623
Um, the, the other thing is too, is the I'm sorry you feel that way is is horrific.
00:34:59.623 --> 00:35:00.556
I hate that.
00:35:00.556 --> 00:35:04.822
So do I, because once again, it must be hard for you.
00:35:04.822 --> 00:35:08.190
You know, that's not something you say in consumer protection.
00:35:08.190 --> 00:35:10.123
No, it must be hard.
00:35:10.123 --> 00:35:12.322
No, you almost got sucked out of an airplane.
00:35:12.322 --> 00:35:12.690
Right.
00:35:12.690 --> 00:35:15.722
Because you're putting blame on them.
00:35:15.722 --> 00:35:19.655
Um, it's, it's very much the passive aggressive way for blaming them.
00:35:19.655 --> 00:35:22.155
You shouldn't have sat so close to the door.
00:35:22.155 --> 00:35:23.889
Uh, moron.
00:35:23.889 --> 00:35:25.855
You wanted to drive the car that had faulty airbags.
00:35:25.855 --> 00:35:27.322
All my fault, right?
00:35:27.322 --> 00:35:28.255
Right.
00:35:28.255 --> 00:35:34.922
You need to state what happened without corporate speak and the facts of what happened.
00:35:34.922 --> 00:35:37.389
The door flew off of the plane.
00:35:37.389 --> 00:35:39.589
Yeah, that is what we know.
00:35:39.589 --> 00:35:41.755
Not, um.
00:35:41.755 --> 00:35:43.855
There was there was a problem with the door, maybe.
00:35:43.855 --> 00:35:47.689
No, no no no. The the door exited literally on TikTok.
00:35:47.689 --> 00:35:49.089
We can see what happened.
00:35:49.089 --> 00:35:49.522
Right?
00:35:49.522 --> 00:35:50.055
No.
00:35:50.055 --> 00:35:51.322
Right.
00:35:51.322 --> 00:35:53.589
So sharing the why.
00:35:53.589 --> 00:35:58.155
And this has got to be like this, this systemic failure, not the list of excuses.
00:35:58.155 --> 00:36:00.289
And you can't be like, Bob screwed up.
00:36:00.289 --> 00:36:00.755
Mhm.
00:36:00.755 --> 00:36:06.855
Um, but you can say, look, we had a problem with this process or this process was changed.
00:36:06.855 --> 00:36:09.955
And we found that this is an issue and now we need to do this.
00:36:09.955 --> 00:36:14.022
You have to tell them what is being done to ensure that this never happens again.
00:36:14.022 --> 00:36:14.822
Um.
00:36:14.822 --> 00:36:15.422
Boing.
00:36:15.422 --> 00:36:16.055
Kind of like.
00:36:16.055 --> 00:36:20.522
Well, it may happen to some other planes, too.
00:36:23.189 --> 00:36:24.689
We might fix it.
00:36:24.689 --> 00:36:25.289
Maybe.
00:36:25.289 --> 00:36:26.089
Maybe not.
00:36:27.255 --> 00:36:28.222
Which planes?
00:36:28.222 --> 00:36:29.422
Some of them.
00:36:29.422 --> 00:36:33.355
Uh, I mean, it's that mushball response.
00:36:33.355 --> 00:36:33.955
Yeah.
00:36:33.955 --> 00:36:40.955
Of. And once again, if you say, hey, look, it's this plane between this cereal and this serial number, it sucks.
00:36:40.955 --> 00:36:43.322
But if you tell me what it is, I can believe it.
00:36:43.322 --> 00:36:44.622
And I can buy into it.
00:36:44.622 --> 00:36:47.922
And I can say, look, they're being honest about this.
00:36:47.922 --> 00:36:51.822
If you say it's a couple of airplanes, is it a couple?
00:36:51.822 --> 00:36:53.189
Is it a couple of hundred?
00:36:53.189 --> 00:36:55.222
Is it a couple of thousand?
00:36:55.222 --> 00:36:59.789
Um, like these general terms just don't work.
00:36:59.789 --> 00:37:04.289
No. And what you do is you create a ripple effect for your customers who also have customers.
00:37:04.289 --> 00:37:10.289
So you got to see the airlines that had those planes and how they responded.
00:37:10.289 --> 00:37:12.722
And they didn't all respond the same way.
00:37:12.722 --> 00:37:14.689
Some said, we are grounding our.
00:37:14.689 --> 00:37:20.455
All operations are ceasing until everything has been checked and we will slowly come back online.
00:37:20.455 --> 00:37:25.455
And then you had some that are like, yeah, we'll just keep checking them like, okay, right, right.
00:37:25.455 --> 00:37:26.789
Not not sitting.
00:37:26.789 --> 00:37:29.022
I'm not flying on your airline for at least six weeks.
00:37:29.022 --> 00:37:29.522
So.
00:37:29.522 --> 00:37:30.322
Correct.
00:37:30.322 --> 00:37:40.322
And this, I mean, I'm gonna get into the best known example of this here in a second is to me, it's that it's if it's a value failure, like if it's integrity, the CEO speaks.
00:37:40.322 --> 00:37:41.122
Yes.
00:37:41.122 --> 00:37:49.222
If it's a process failure, put the operations manager or someone like that, you should have someone picked in your company that presents well, yes.
00:37:49.222 --> 00:37:56.089
Um, I know a lot of CEOs that if you give them this microphone, like the dumb falls out of their face.
00:37:56.089 --> 00:37:56.689
Yes.
00:37:56.689 --> 00:37:59.989
Um, they then they sit next to the person who can do it.
00:37:59.989 --> 00:38:01.822
Well, just sit there and smile.
00:38:01.822 --> 00:38:02.189
Right.
00:38:02.189 --> 00:38:03.689
And that's, that's all you need.
00:38:03.689 --> 00:38:06.555
You need the CEO, but you need the person that presents.
00:38:06.555 --> 00:38:08.422
Well, yes, to do it.
00:38:08.422 --> 00:38:10.155
Uh, the, the CEO.
00:38:10.155 --> 00:38:14.755
That's kind of no, no, no. Kind of shifty.
00:38:14.755 --> 00:38:19.989
No. You need the person that can stand there confidently and pardon my pardon, my expression.
00:38:19.989 --> 00:38:27.722
With this, you need the person that can stand there confidently eat the shit sandwich and not necessarily smile, but look.
00:38:27.722 --> 00:38:34.355
Look at everyone and say, yes, I am eating the sandwich and I know I need to eat this sandwich.
00:38:34.355 --> 00:38:35.722
That's all that you need.
00:38:35.722 --> 00:38:37.489
That person that can do that.
00:38:37.489 --> 00:38:43.855
What I want to talk about is there's the, the, the most beautiful, brilliant example of this is Tylenol.
00:38:43.855 --> 00:38:44.789
Yes.
00:38:44.789 --> 00:38:45.555
Nineteen eighty two.
00:38:45.555 --> 00:38:49.922
There's the cyanide crisis that it is the gold standard of crisis management.
00:38:49.922 --> 00:38:52.189
If you've never looked it up, you need to look at it.
00:38:52.189 --> 00:39:00.955
Um, long story short, seven people in the Chicago area died from ingesting cyanide laced capsules in Tylenol bottles.
00:39:00.955 --> 00:39:01.922
Yes.
00:39:01.922 --> 00:39:13.422
Um, they, like you would think if our product kills people that this would be a disaster and no one would ever like you take Tylenol, right?
00:39:13.422 --> 00:39:14.222
No problem.
00:39:14.222 --> 00:39:16.022
Don't even think twice about it.
00:39:16.022 --> 00:39:17.222
Um, Tylenol.
00:39:17.222 --> 00:39:23.089
So first off, they ordered a nationwide recall of approximately thirty one million bottles, one hundred million dollars.
00:39:23.089 --> 00:39:30.022
Granted, your business may not be able to suck up one hundred million dollars, but keep in mind, this is this is this is Johnson and Johnson here.
00:39:30.022 --> 00:39:32.955
This is this there's scale scale involved here.
00:39:32.955 --> 00:39:33.422
Mhm.
00:39:33.422 --> 00:39:40.689
Um, despite and this is despite evidence occurred at the retail level rather than in the factories.
00:39:40.689 --> 00:39:41.755
Mhm.
00:39:41.755 --> 00:39:46.655
Um, so they once again, they overreacted for confidence.
00:39:46.655 --> 00:39:47.455
Yeah.
00:39:47.455 --> 00:39:53.422
Um, Chairman James Burke was candid with the media holding frequent press conferences and appearing on programs like sixty minutes.
00:39:53.422 --> 00:40:02.822
Like you said, I don't think you're going to get on if Joe's if Joe's Shake Shack has if you have to be on sixty minutes, I.
00:40:02.822 --> 00:40:03.489
Right.
00:40:03.489 --> 00:40:03.889
Call us.
00:40:03.889 --> 00:40:06.189
Right, right, right.
00:40:06.189 --> 00:40:08.589
Um, but they established an eight hundred number.
00:40:08.589 --> 00:40:10.722
I mean, they did take daily updates.
00:40:10.722 --> 00:40:15.922
So if you had an issue there, they had a public safety warnings before the full recall.
00:40:15.922 --> 00:40:16.922
They used mass media.
00:40:16.922 --> 00:40:21.722
They even have police loudspeakers to warn the public not to consume the Tylenol.
00:40:21.722 --> 00:40:31.022
I mean it once again, this is a little bit of an overreaction, but this is about trust in your brand and in public safety.
00:40:31.022 --> 00:40:35.622
I mean, they are a case study for how to handle something that impacts.
00:40:35.622 --> 00:40:36.155
Yep.
00:40:36.155 --> 00:40:42.822
Like, in essence, almost every person in the United States, they had to have this like one hundred percent.
00:40:42.822 --> 00:40:43.755
Um, question for you.
00:40:43.755 --> 00:40:46.789
Anytime you open a bottle of anything, it's a giant pain in the ass.
00:40:46.789 --> 00:40:48.022
It is now.
00:40:48.022 --> 00:40:48.355
Thanks.
00:40:48.355 --> 00:40:50.122
Johnson and Johnson one hundred percent.
00:40:50.122 --> 00:40:51.155
I'm not complaining about it.
00:40:51.155 --> 00:40:52.189
No. Thank you.
00:40:52.189 --> 00:40:57.789
It's it's triple sealed, glued box, plastic seal neck and a foil mouth seal.
00:40:57.789 --> 00:40:59.855
Within six weeks, they introduced all that?
00:40:59.855 --> 00:41:00.422
Yeah.
00:41:00.422 --> 00:41:02.222
They made a shift to caplets.
00:41:02.222 --> 00:41:05.889
I mean, the response was really.
00:41:05.889 --> 00:41:16.955
I mean, guided by their their moral credo and a corporate philosophy that was like stating the company's primary responsibility is to the people that use their products.
00:41:16.955 --> 00:41:22.889
And that is your primary responsibility as the business owner, as the manager.
00:41:22.889 --> 00:41:24.855
It is the people that use your products.
00:41:24.855 --> 00:41:31.055
If you take care of them, if you make them feel good.
00:41:31.055 --> 00:41:33.022
I people make mistakes all the time.
00:41:33.022 --> 00:41:33.589
Yeah.
00:41:33.589 --> 00:41:46.322
If you can make them feel like, hey, we've done something to make sure that this mistake won't happen again and honestly apologize to those people and they know that you're working to correct the issue.
00:41:46.322 --> 00:41:49.855
You've now strengthened the relationship you have.
00:41:49.855 --> 00:42:00.355
Um, you can cruise along and have no problems your entire time, but I guarantee one or two hiccups in a relationship with someone makes it that much stronger.
00:42:00.355 --> 00:42:06.555
Um, the interesting thing about it is Tylenol position themselves to is kind of the fellow victim of crime.
00:42:06.555 --> 00:42:06.822
Yeah.
00:42:06.822 --> 00:42:07.922
But they, they owned it.
00:42:07.922 --> 00:42:08.955
They're like, this is our product.
00:42:08.955 --> 00:42:15.122
We're going to make sure, um, they regained nearly all of its market share again within a year.
00:42:15.122 --> 00:42:15.455
Yeah.
00:42:15.455 --> 00:42:17.322
Which for them, that timeline is nothing.
00:42:17.322 --> 00:42:19.222
And it's, it was unprecedented.
00:42:19.222 --> 00:42:20.089
What they dealt with.
00:42:20.089 --> 00:42:27.422
It was also unprecedented how they responded, which is why they are the example for how to manage a crisis effectively and efficiently.
00:42:27.422 --> 00:42:38.355
It and I mean, the other thing that I see with this is you realize with this, this was not like they had this playbook somewhat outlined ahead of time.
00:42:38.355 --> 00:42:40.522
Yeah, you should do the same.
00:42:40.522 --> 00:42:44.155
Um, what happens if your product goes out the door?
00:42:44.155 --> 00:42:45.755
Let's say you sell food.
00:42:45.755 --> 00:42:46.822
Mhm.
00:42:46.822 --> 00:42:49.555
What happens if you get a bad batch of chicken?
00:42:49.555 --> 00:42:49.989
Yeah.
00:42:49.989 --> 00:42:51.289
How do you address that?
00:42:51.289 --> 00:42:52.755
How do you look at that?
00:42:52.755 --> 00:42:55.089
I know a lot of restaurants ignore it.
00:42:55.089 --> 00:42:55.522
Yeah.
00:42:55.522 --> 00:42:56.222
And you shouldn't.
00:42:56.222 --> 00:42:57.589
They're like, oh, I'm sorry.
00:42:57.589 --> 00:42:58.622
Right.
00:42:58.622 --> 00:42:59.989
I want more than I'm sorry.
00:42:59.989 --> 00:43:03.089
Right, right right right, right.
00:43:03.089 --> 00:43:04.255
We're not our chicken.
00:43:05.255 --> 00:43:06.322
Right.
00:43:07.755 --> 00:43:10.689
Um, here's, here's a question for you.
00:43:10.689 --> 00:43:14.855
So and I'm sure you've seen this, an innovative shortcut.
00:43:14.855 --> 00:43:17.555
Have you ever seen those lead to those crisis?
00:43:17.555 --> 00:43:22.122
And then like, once again, it may lead to the crisis, but then.
00:43:22.122 --> 00:43:23.955
Hey, boss, I got a band aid.
00:43:23.955 --> 00:43:25.689
This is gonna fix it right now.
00:43:25.689 --> 00:43:26.489
Yeah.
00:43:26.489 --> 00:43:32.689
Leading to the secondary crisis, which is three to five times what the first crisis was.
00:43:32.689 --> 00:43:33.355
Mhm.
00:43:34.689 --> 00:43:39.122
I have here, let's dump gasoline on the fire.
00:43:39.122 --> 00:43:39.989
Let's just.
00:43:39.989 --> 00:43:41.389
Here, here's a blowtorch.
00:43:41.389 --> 00:43:44.855
I feel like as soon as this episode's over, Chrissy's gonna go out drinking.
00:43:44.855 --> 00:43:46.355
This is like I'm gonna have an ulcer.
00:43:46.355 --> 00:43:48.689
Um, I'm gonna resurrect.
00:43:48.689 --> 00:43:52.655
I would say, you know, crisis is not the time to experiment.
00:43:52.655 --> 00:43:54.089
It is the time to stabilize.
00:43:54.089 --> 00:43:54.489
Yes.
00:43:54.489 --> 00:44:04.055
So we don't we may have to respond in new ways, but we're not like brainstorming all the new things and the ways to be innovative in in navigating a crisis.
00:44:04.055 --> 00:44:05.955
Johnson and Johnson did it well.
00:44:05.955 --> 00:44:07.422
Follow their example.
00:44:07.422 --> 00:44:08.855
Yeah, one hundred percent.
00:44:08.855 --> 00:44:11.022
Boeing did not do it well in a situation.
00:44:11.022 --> 00:44:12.455
Don't follow their example.
00:44:12.455 --> 00:44:13.122
Yeah.
00:44:13.122 --> 00:44:13.455
Yeah.
00:44:13.455 --> 00:44:22.189
And I mean it's like there's tons of stories and articles about like how they've handled these things that are great articles about that.
00:44:22.189 --> 00:44:31.355
Um, my big thing that I have always find is even a temporary fix has to have, like, especially if it's a temporary fix, it has to have an expiration date.
00:44:31.355 --> 00:44:32.089
Yes.
00:44:32.089 --> 00:44:45.922
Um, otherwise, like before you know it, you, your company is, we've all seen that car going down the road that has the, the, the truck going down the road that has the tailgate, that has the tie down strap holding the tailgate on.
00:44:45.922 --> 00:44:49.855
There's like duct tape over a window that that's your business.
00:44:49.855 --> 00:44:50.822
Yes.
00:44:50.822 --> 00:44:53.322
Well, and go back to your, your medical example.
00:44:53.322 --> 00:45:01.755
I mean, we don't most of the time we stabilize the patient and then we figure out course of treatment action, and we talk about what that's going to be moving forward.
00:45:01.755 --> 00:45:06.722
We don't just leave the person stabilized on life support and walk away.
00:45:06.722 --> 00:45:08.589
We have to do things to maintain it.
00:45:08.589 --> 00:45:11.855
So you've got to go back and communicate in your work with clarity.
00:45:11.855 --> 00:45:12.322
HR.
00:45:12.322 --> 00:45:12.622
Yeah.
00:45:12.622 --> 00:45:13.722
Fractional HR.
00:45:13.722 --> 00:45:15.422
Mhm.
00:45:15.422 --> 00:45:23.022
How often do you see the owner's ego as the obstacle to resolving a PR disaster?
00:45:23.022 --> 00:45:25.422
Um, it happens a lot.
00:45:26.789 --> 00:45:30.089
I asked this, I mean, I've seen it all the time in PR.
00:45:30.089 --> 00:45:33.089
I mean, it's not just it's not just in clarity.
00:45:33.089 --> 00:45:39.789
I think it's it's as a business owner, if you work with other businesses, you can see that happen a fair amount all the time.
00:45:39.789 --> 00:45:42.989
And if a leader can't admit fault, the organization can't recover.
00:45:42.989 --> 00:45:49.022
No. So I would yeah, ego slows resolution way more than complexity does.
00:45:49.022 --> 00:45:49.522
Yeah.
00:45:49.522 --> 00:45:51.522
Because it'll grind to a halt.
00:45:51.522 --> 00:45:52.355
Nope.
00:45:52.355 --> 00:45:53.455
Instantly.
00:45:53.455 --> 00:46:01.722
And I mean to me too, like the thing that I see about it is like, I know so many people that can't make a mistake.
00:46:01.722 --> 00:46:02.155
Uh huh.
00:46:02.155 --> 00:46:06.322
Um, and when you see that, you're like, oh, how fragile are they?
00:46:06.322 --> 00:46:07.189
Yes.
00:46:07.189 --> 00:46:16.355
And like business ownership, even like any sort of leadership, um, any sort of leadership at all is not for the fragile.
00:46:16.355 --> 00:46:17.055
Yes.
00:46:17.055 --> 00:46:19.089
Um, you've got to have the durability.
00:46:19.089 --> 00:46:22.922
You've got to like, you have to take the hits for your people.
00:46:22.922 --> 00:46:23.189
Yes.
00:46:23.189 --> 00:46:25.255
You do not want your people to take the hits.
00:46:25.255 --> 00:46:26.155
No, you do not.
00:46:26.155 --> 00:46:30.789
And I would say to you, don't you don't bully your whistleblowers.
00:46:30.789 --> 00:46:35.955
So. Oh, gosh, if you have hears I am watching one right now.
00:46:35.955 --> 00:46:47.889
It's a situation where a business took investors and those investors, uh, eighteen months into an investment said, hey, the revenue doesn't seem to be going the way that we thought it was supposed to.
00:46:47.889 --> 00:46:53.622
And some of the things like we, we were like thirty payments, but we were supposed to have thirty one payments.
00:46:53.622 --> 00:46:55.389
And, you know, things seem a little bit off.
00:46:55.389 --> 00:46:57.355
And that CEO was like, everything is fine.
00:46:57.355 --> 00:46:59.489
And why are you even questioning me?
00:46:59.489 --> 00:47:11.022
We're going to fast forward twenty four months later, where now that organization is under investigation for fraud because the CEO was too arrogant to pay attention to what was going on underneath him.
00:47:11.022 --> 00:47:17.489
And he's dealing with a massive fraud investigation that lost probably fifty percent of that organization's revenue.
00:47:17.489 --> 00:47:19.155
And they don't know if they're going to survive.
00:47:19.155 --> 00:47:19.889
Ouch.
00:47:19.889 --> 00:47:20.655
Yeah.
00:47:20.655 --> 00:47:22.989
You talk about egos being expensive.
00:47:22.989 --> 00:47:23.655
Yeah.
00:47:23.655 --> 00:47:27.422
And this is one where I just watched and I'm like, oh, I don't like this.
00:47:27.422 --> 00:47:28.655
I don't like how he's responding.
00:47:28.655 --> 00:47:30.789
But all could have been prevented.
00:47:30.789 --> 00:47:31.289
Mhm.
00:47:31.289 --> 00:47:35.355
I mean, you can like, you can face the music now.
00:47:35.355 --> 00:47:35.822
Mhm.
00:47:35.822 --> 00:47:37.755
Or you can face the music later.
00:47:37.755 --> 00:47:39.189
Um, later.
00:47:39.189 --> 00:47:41.622
That music is louder and as old as I am.
00:47:41.622 --> 00:47:44.889
It does not take too much for the music to get too loud.
00:47:44.889 --> 00:47:52.789
No. And if your ego is that fragile that you cannot handle that criticism or looking at something, you know, I don't think you should be a business owner or a business leader.
00:47:52.789 --> 00:48:01.055
No, no. Um, something else that I have found too is like, you can see there's two ways to look at this.
00:48:01.055 --> 00:48:04.389
You can see when you've got your team on board with you.
00:48:04.389 --> 00:48:05.189
Mhm.
00:48:05.189 --> 00:48:11.322
And you can see when managers like when you look at a department and you can see when managers have their team on board with them.
00:48:11.322 --> 00:48:11.855
Yeah.
00:48:11.855 --> 00:48:16.289
Um, you look at who's going to get focused, who's going to get frantic.
00:48:16.289 --> 00:48:23.689
Um, to me it's that it's when that coach correct or cut becomes real time.
00:48:23.689 --> 00:48:24.155
Yeah.
00:48:24.155 --> 00:48:29.122
Because you can see who can handle this and who can, who can move with a crisis.
00:48:29.122 --> 00:48:33.889
Well, and you can really see it in team dynamics between different teams.
00:48:33.889 --> 00:48:42.055
Who is managed by someone who has some emotional resilience and some capability around how they regulate and those that do not.
00:48:42.055 --> 00:48:42.889
Ooh.
00:48:42.889 --> 00:48:43.855
Yeah.
00:48:43.855 --> 00:48:44.455
Yeah.
00:48:46.255 --> 00:48:49.222
I've been around some yellers, which is always interesting.
00:48:52.222 --> 00:48:53.822
A couple of takeaways from today.
00:48:53.822 --> 00:48:56.722
Um, first sixty minutes war room.
00:48:56.722 --> 00:48:57.522
Okay.
00:48:57.522 --> 00:49:00.522
May make like buckle down.
00:49:00.522 --> 00:49:05.455
Um, and like the, the clear communication process.
00:49:05.455 --> 00:49:07.889
How are we going to communicate this?
00:49:07.889 --> 00:49:13.222
Don't just walk out into the streets and be like, guys, guys, guys, guys, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen.
00:49:13.222 --> 00:49:15.322
On this post-it, right?
00:49:17.122 --> 00:49:18.355
Yikes.
00:49:18.355 --> 00:49:21.289
So I would say you control the communication cadence.
00:49:21.289 --> 00:49:28.022
So you don't just communicate, you structure how often you're going to communicate and how clearly communication happens.
00:49:28.022 --> 00:49:28.622
Yeah.
00:49:28.622 --> 00:49:28.922
Yeah.
00:49:28.922 --> 00:49:30.189
No, that's a big one.
00:49:30.189 --> 00:49:33.789
The other thing that I like is like variable isolations.
00:49:33.789 --> 00:49:35.789
Um, you can like math problems.
00:49:35.789 --> 00:49:37.855
It's tough to solve for two variables.
00:49:37.855 --> 00:49:39.522
Um, fix one lever.
00:49:39.522 --> 00:49:41.255
Look, look at what changed.
00:49:41.255 --> 00:49:42.322
Move to the next thing.
00:49:42.322 --> 00:49:42.689
Yeah.
00:49:42.689 --> 00:49:47.422
Um, if you pull ten different levers, um, you have no idea what fixed it?
00:49:47.422 --> 00:49:54.622
No. And I would say we're separating signal from noise because in crisis, not everything matters equally.
00:49:54.622 --> 00:50:00.355
And so leaders have to divide what gets attention, which is why we regulate, we reveal and we rebuild.
00:50:00.355 --> 00:50:01.322
Yep.
00:50:01.322 --> 00:50:07.422
Uh, my other last one I like is like, success is a shared thing is our core value as a company.
00:50:07.422 --> 00:50:10.122
Um, an apology without an operational fix.
00:50:10.122 --> 00:50:10.989
I'm going to steal your line.
00:50:10.989 --> 00:50:12.955
It's just shitty wall art.
00:50:12.955 --> 00:50:14.589
It really is.
00:50:14.589 --> 00:50:16.455
We're sorry that happened.
00:50:16.455 --> 00:50:18.455
We're going to continue to do it that way.
00:50:18.455 --> 00:50:19.922
But we're sorry it happened.
00:50:19.922 --> 00:50:21.189
No you're not, you're not.
00:50:21.189 --> 00:50:28.589
Um, that once again goes back to your relationship advice from earlier with that, uh, should you ever fire a customer during a crisis?
00:50:28.589 --> 00:50:30.122
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:50:30.122 --> 00:50:32.789
If they violate values or destabilize the team.
00:50:32.789 --> 00:50:33.922
Absolutely.
00:50:33.922 --> 00:50:36.955
Revenue that destroys culture is not worth keeping.
00:50:36.955 --> 00:50:37.855
Ever.
00:50:37.855 --> 00:50:39.189
No it's not.
00:50:39.189 --> 00:50:40.389
It's really not.
00:50:40.389 --> 00:50:43.989
Um, if they start the yelling and screaming, I can understand someone being excited.
00:50:43.989 --> 00:50:50.289
I can understand someone being upset, but as long as you approach them with, hey, here's the solution, here's what we're going to try and do to make this right.
00:50:50.289 --> 00:50:52.789
Yeah, you should be good if they don't like that.
00:50:52.789 --> 00:50:54.522
Well, the next one.
00:50:54.522 --> 00:50:58.289
And as a video company, I love asking this one.
00:50:58.289 --> 00:51:00.589
The apology video.
00:51:00.589 --> 00:51:01.755
Yes.
00:51:01.755 --> 00:51:06.789
Um, are you asking me like, what should you or not do it?
00:51:06.789 --> 00:51:08.355
What are you or are you or shouldn't you do?
00:51:08.355 --> 00:51:11.455
Is this is this are these meaningful?
00:51:11.455 --> 00:51:13.189
Are these cringey as hell?
00:51:13.189 --> 00:51:14.322
I think it depends.
00:51:14.322 --> 00:51:20.122
I mean, if it's authentic, if it's specific, accountable and shows change, then they can be great.
00:51:20.122 --> 00:51:22.855
Especially like replaying for a lot of people.
00:51:22.855 --> 00:51:27.255
If it's like if you're Johnson and Johnson, an apology video made a lot of sense.
00:51:27.255 --> 00:51:31.455
Um, it's cringe if it's vague or defensive, you're like, we don't have a problem.
00:51:31.455 --> 00:51:33.322
People have been saying this, we're fine.
00:51:33.322 --> 00:51:36.289
We're just as strong as we've ever been as doors fly off your airplanes.
00:51:36.289 --> 00:51:37.489
I mean, you just don't do it.
00:51:37.489 --> 00:51:47.622
No, no. I found that some people are just so disconnected from the from their customers and from the people that are aware of things that like you have to.
00:51:47.622 --> 00:51:52.489
One of my favorite sayings is, before you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, you have to take off your own.
00:51:52.489 --> 00:51:53.122
Yes.
00:51:53.122 --> 00:51:58.322
And I see it in so many cases where the CEO steps up and is like, this isn't a problem.
00:51:58.322 --> 00:51:59.589
No, right?
00:51:59.589 --> 00:52:05.789
It's like, it may not be for you on a day to day basis, but for the person sitting in row F, that's a problem.
00:52:05.789 --> 00:52:08.222
It's a problem right now, especially if they can't.
00:52:08.222 --> 00:52:14.355
If you cannot show authenticity or any type of emotion, you should never do a video.
00:52:14.355 --> 00:52:19.022
No. And if you have to read your apology like a hostage video, you shouldn't do it either.
00:52:19.022 --> 00:52:24.355
No, I, I, whenever I see those, I'm like, oh, this looks like the most inauthentic thing.
00:52:24.355 --> 00:52:26.855
My lawyer is making me read this right now.
00:52:26.855 --> 00:52:28.022
Yeah, no, it's so funny.
00:52:28.022 --> 00:52:33.889
And we both know people that on camera, as soon as they get on camera, they're like, yeah, hire someone.
00:52:33.889 --> 00:52:35.822
All right, what's the emergency SOP?
00:52:35.822 --> 00:52:38.822
Every ten person company needs to have in a drawer.
00:52:38.822 --> 00:52:40.355
Uh, there's two.
00:52:40.355 --> 00:52:40.922
Okay.
00:52:40.922 --> 00:52:44.189
Um. Supplier issue is one.
00:52:44.189 --> 00:52:47.222
Like what happens if supply just gets cut off?
00:52:47.222 --> 00:52:48.189
Three.
00:52:48.189 --> 00:52:56.922
The other thing is, is just this triage plan for if things just start to come off the rails and you've got, you're going to keep it very general.
00:52:56.922 --> 00:53:03.455
But if you don't have at least a base outline, this all goes out the window.
00:53:03.455 --> 00:53:05.289
What about for you?
00:53:05.289 --> 00:53:07.522
Um, similar.
00:53:07.522 --> 00:53:09.589
It's the it's the disaster part.
00:53:09.589 --> 00:53:10.689
Just the disaster.
00:53:10.689 --> 00:53:12.089
I mean, it's like it's also two pages.
00:53:12.089 --> 00:53:17.155
If something happens to Christie tomorrow, what are the ten things that we need to make sure that we make payroll next week?
00:53:17.155 --> 00:53:17.589
Yep.
00:53:17.589 --> 00:53:17.855
Yeah.
00:53:17.855 --> 00:53:18.455
Yeah.
00:53:18.455 --> 00:53:19.022
Yeah.
00:53:19.022 --> 00:53:22.289
Christie just loses her shit and doesn't come in or she doesn't.
00:53:22.289 --> 00:53:23.689
She's like, she's not coming in.
00:53:23.689 --> 00:53:24.022
Right.
00:53:24.022 --> 00:53:25.622
She goes missing for three weeks.
00:53:28.589 --> 00:53:31.722
Her Instagram is suddenly filled with beaches.
00:53:31.722 --> 00:53:33.689
You have no idea what's going on.
00:53:33.689 --> 00:53:37.089
That being said, thank you, everyone for coming along for the ride.
00:53:37.089 --> 00:53:41.355
Uh, we're always glad to have everyone go to business fix podcast dot com.
00:53:41.355 --> 00:53:45.955
Give us topics, let us know what you want to hear.
00:53:45.955 --> 00:54:02.989
Um, the next is we are going to talk about how to manage or fire your most toxic high performer because this sounds once again, like I love some of the topics we're covering right now because this is just scary as hell.
00:54:02.989 --> 00:54:04.789
Oh, great.
00:54:04.789 --> 00:54:08.522
So I woke up screaming, screaming, thinking about this.
00:54:08.522 --> 00:54:10.689
Uh, so yeah, we'll be in good shape.
00:54:10.689 --> 00:54:11.355
Do us a favor.
00:54:11.355 --> 00:54:12.055
Take care of yourself.
00:54:12.055 --> 00:54:13.689
If you can take care of someone else too.
00:54:13.689 --> 00:54:16.322
We will see you very, very soon.