I Hired a Field Tech To be My Head of Sales

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Hey everyone, it's Mike Andes, and today I'm honored to have Lee Park.
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He is our VP of sales here at the franchise, and he spends a lot of his time talking to owners, talking to prospective franchisees, but he has also kind of risen the ranks from field technician, professional,
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as estimator, general manager, and regional manager, and now is in the VP of sales side of things.
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But he really has seen all aspects of sales inside of Augusta at the technician level, as the estimator, as the general manager.
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And so today I wanted to pick his brain specifically about sales.
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And so everything to do with follow-up, everything to do with getting more estimates, talking with customers, communication that you're having with customers on their property, and really just dive into some aspects and hopefully have some takeaways for you, we will implement your sales process.
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So Lee, maybe give us the quick kernel of your background in Augusta, and then we'll get started.
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Yeah, you summed up really well.
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Thanks for having me on the channel.
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So basically, you hired me eight and a half years ago to push a mower.
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And now we're here.
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So started pushing a mower, worked my way up to more of a project management position.
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So that was back when we were doing retaining walls, patios, excavation, things of that nature.
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So learned how to use like heavy equipment and manage multi-day projects.
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Then when you launched the franchise, you needed someone to take over the local sales.
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That was then me.
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And then from there, moved into a general manager's position and now have worked directly under you and with Liz and Nick at the franchise for the last four years now.
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So four years, really four years in like operations, home services day to day, and then four years in kind of scaling the franchise.
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So I think when you took over sales, we were at 50 locations.
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Sales of the franchise.
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Yes, correct.
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Yes, we just hit 50 locations.
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And then that's when I took over the franchise sales.
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The past, what, 165 have been yours?
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Yes.
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Let's go.
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Yeah, I'll take it.
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Yeah.
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I've 3X'd your outfit.
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So I want to go back to, for those listening, walk me through some of the differences you might see in a sales process for a company that's, say, 200,000 versus 2 million.
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200,000, likely the owner being out in the field doing estimates while they're doing work as a solo operator.
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2 million, much more sophisticated.
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That's more where Bellingham's shop was when you were the estimator.
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And so walk me through the differences in those and maybe give me some of the high-level areas of weakness you see in both of those.
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Yeah, it's a great question.
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I would say, kind of summarizing it, I would say there's really two words I would use to define each.
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So the $200,000 a year company is going to be reactive and very personalized.
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Okay, so that's what the solo operator is doing, right?
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They're reactive to when the customer calls, when the customer emails me, when there's a problem, when an estimate pops up, I need to react to that.
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I need to go and attack that lead, which is a good philosophy, right?
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Speed to lead is important, but it's very reactive in terms of the process because it's usually solo operator.
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And it's very personal, right?
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They're establishing a relationship with the customer.
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They're building rapport with the customer.
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The customer knows that the person selling me the job is the person that's going to come do the job, is the person that's going to bill me for the job.
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It's a very personal sales process.
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When I look at a $2 million company, it's going to be systematized and it's going to be predictable.
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And so when you build a $2 million company, a sales system like when you put me in charge of sales of your original location, you didn't say, okay, Lee, go do sales and you hoped that the revenue stayed at the same level.
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You taught me how we meet the customer, how we type up estimates, what our pricing structure looks like on the back end, what target margins we had, what target close ratio we had.
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All of those things were explained to me via the systems you created, and it made it for you as the owner, a predictable process.
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No.
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Knowing that if I can teach someone these systems, the revenue is then going to be a predictable output from the systems I created.
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And so that would be the distinction that I would make between the two is you have this reactivity, this personalization versus this predictable system that just churns out sales.
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So I think that kind of answered the first question.
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I'm sorry, there was a second question there, too.
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No, that's fine.
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That's perfect.
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And I think for a lot of people listening, they're in that phase of, you know, maybe crossing 800,000, a million in revenue.
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They're starting to think about, I need to find someone to take sales off my plate.
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And I think for a lot of people, it's easy to delegate admin because we hate doing it.
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We delegate operations because we're tired.
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We're like, get it off.
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I want to get off the truck.
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When it comes to sales, it's sometimes very risky because we know that everything downstream of the sale is governed by whether or not that job was accurate budget hours, accurate materials, accurate pricing.
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Right.
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And it's very hard to let go of.
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And so I remember that fear.
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I was kind of forced to at the franchise, which was good because I had something else to go do.
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And it forced me to hand it off to you.
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From your perspective, you had to learn sales from me, but then you also had to train it to Marcus and hand off that whole role down the road.
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What did you learn from learning from me?
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But then you added and made it better by teaching Marcus.
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Like what was the gaps that when I taught you, you're like, hey, I got to make sure this is better.
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When I give this to Marcus, is this smoother?
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Because those are probably the same things that existing owners handing off sales for the first time will mess up as well.
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Mm-hmm.
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Yeah, it's a great question.
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I think I would almost zoom out, right?
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Because you're asking a question about, okay, how are the day-to-day operations impacted by the sales process as a whole?
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And I think you need to zoom out to the business as a whole and decide what are the goals of the business?
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Because the goals of the business should determine what the sales system looks like, in my opinion.
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And that would be, is the business optimizing for growth?
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If it's optimizing for growth, we're going to tweak what metrics are most important from a sales perspective.
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If the business is optimizing for profit, we're going to heavily focus on the pricing model and the margin side of sales, not necessarily the volume or the amount of sales, if you will, from a numbering perspective, not necessarily revenue.
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And so I would first say for those owners who are scaling and like getting to that point where like, hey, I want to hand off sales.
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When you hand off sales to your first salesperson, your first estimator, you make sure very clearly what their goals are.
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What is the goal of the business?
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When I hand this person sales, is it growth or is it profit?
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Because those are two very different ways that you are going to sell your products, as well as a different way for you to track and measure success inside of that sales system.
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And so if I am like, hey, I don't need necessarily to grow the business a bunch, but I do require you to sell quite a bit of projects.
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Because that's always a scary thing.
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Recurring, it's going to keep going.
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But especially when I hand it off to you, I would say probably 50% to 70% of our revenue.
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50%, 60%.
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Yeah, it was probably close to 50-50 when I stepped in.
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Revenue was project-based.
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Yes.
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We were still doing walls.
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We were still retaining walls and patios and drainage and grading.
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Yeah, yeah.
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That was our team.
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And so when that comes into play, it's like the business could pay theoretically half in revenue if this person does not know how to sell.
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Correct.
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Correct.
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And so when you train Marcus, for example, what were some of the things that you did to make sure, hey, yes, we have to have good pricing and good budget hours for our crew.
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And that kind of keeps the estimator honest on pay for performance as the crew hit your guts if you don't give them enough budget hours or if you underbid a job.
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But what were some of the things you were working with Marcus on when you handed off sales to say, hey, yes, we got to make sure we're accurate.
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We also need to close enough jobs here.
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And where is that balance?
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Because as much as you say, hey, the goal is like, I don't just revenue.
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I don't just want profit.
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I need you to fill the schedule.
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Yes, yes.
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And I also want to make some money at the end of the day.
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Yeah.
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And that's the fine line that a lot of estimators have to walk, that you have to realize that, like, hey, there must be work on the schedule.
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And if you're a project-based heavy company, sales is going to be ultimately the driver of a lot of your revenue, right?
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And to your example, yes, when you handed sales to me, we were about 50-50.
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So the business was doing around like 1.7 million in annual revenue.
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We had about 800-ish thousand in recurring work and then about 800,000 plus in projects on an annualized basis.
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And we're also selling those projects in like an eight-month time window, right?
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So there was four months of the year where we just weren't even really selling.
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Yeah.
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And so to your point about like, how did I, you know, train Marcus on what he should do and how he should optimize his sales system?
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It was really around understanding that predictability and that seasonality in the business.
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And that was something that we really teach to our owners inside of Augusta is there's very clear seasonitis.
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And you wrote about this, obviously, in the offseason book that there are times where lead flows heavier.
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And so we need to capitalize on time sensitive and recurring jobs.
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And then there's times when there isn't as much as many leads coming in.
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And that's when we're selling in time sensitive and maybe one time jobs.
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And so planning for that predictability was something I had to really train Marcus, because when you handed to me, we didn't really have all these systems and you hadn't written all these books that have helped so many business owners.
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And so we were still trying to figure out, OK, what does seasonality look like?
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What does the predictability of our sales system look like?
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When do we prioritize those time sensitive occurring jobs that are about?
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of the revenue that we don't have to worry about.
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Like focus on when the window to sell those jobs is, worry about the projects later and fill the off season or times when recurring is at less of a high volume.
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Yeah, I think one of the things that worries an owner and something I saw, like you struggle with, Marcus struggled with, all the estimators that we used to have back in the Dillingham shop was before we systematized things and now we don't need an estimator, thank goodness.
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But when I saw the struggle was like, we would go from 40, 60 estimates a week.
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All of a sudden the next week there'd be 10.
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And so what can I do if I am looking for a full-time estimator?
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What can I do to make sure that, hey, yes, you got to get estimates out as they come in.
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But when it dives, when it drops, what are some other tasks that that estimator can do to still be profitable and drive revenue for the business?
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Because otherwise, if they're just waiting for inbound leads, there are times leads just don't show up.
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Like if it's raining outside and it's horrible weather, no one's thinking about getting their landscape project.
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Yeah, it's a great question.
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And that's something that, you know, I hand up, you know, and we'll say publicly, like I was probably not the most efficient estimator because there were times when, yeah, if I was incentivized to just go do the sales and I wasn't incentivized to necessarily do outbound or keep a healthy pipeline consistently churning, then I just kind of sat and twiddled my thumbs and waited for leads to come in.
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And that's the risk of handing sales off to an estimator is that they assume it's just all inbound.
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And so one of the things that we've seen across Augusta is that when our owners hand off estimating our sales to an estimator, they should either one, have that estimator go back into production.
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And this is obviously more of a sales conversation.
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So that's a simple answer.
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Put them back into production.
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OK, the more sales focused answer is going to be build out either incentives or strategies and systems around what to do inbound is down.
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What are we doing for outbound?
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What are we doing for strategy long term?
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So let's go hypothetically, right?
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We're in the heat of spring rush and we got bad weather.
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Leads are down.
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We're not getting a bunch of estimates on the board.
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OK, well, what should that estimator then be planning to do?
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They know that summer projects are coming.
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So what are their most common summer projects that they typically do year over year?
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I would then go to those customers and either resell them the same project that we sold them last year, or I would go and get door hangers or do outbound strategy to sell that same project to new customers.
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Right.
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And that's something that we work a lot with our owners inside of Augusta is being prepared for the season ahead.
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Like if you're planning for the season you're in during the season, you're already behind.
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And so we're looking at, OK, I know that fall is coming up in two months, whatever, right?
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If I'm in the middle of June and I know fall cleanup start in September and I have a down day in June, why wouldn't I just go start pre-selling jobs for September when I know it's going to happen and I know demand picks back up?
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Let me pre-sell that and focus on the outbound, go generate work versus just wait for work to come to me.
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It's time to lock in before the spring rush.
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And when it comes to locking in, you wanna be able to rely on something to hold your business strong, just like this chain.
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That's why at HomeWorks, we have the logo of the chain because it's the three links in every home service business, sales, operations, and admin.
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So before the spring rush gets super hot and you have leads coming in like crazy, make sure you're set up inside of a software like HomeWorks that can take your business to the next level and allow you to scale this spring.
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Go check out today, go to home.works.
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How could someone kind of gauge that?
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So for example, at the Bellingham shop, I think we've quickly identified that if it got slow enough, the estimator needed to be willing to be able to go back in the field.
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Yes.
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And that was the easiest way because otherwise we were spending money on marketing.
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Because at the time we were in a slow, demand is low, customer accuracy and cost is the highest.
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And so a lot of people will do if they have an estimator that is only used to doing inbound is I will go gas marketing in order to be able to fill their funnel to keep them busy.
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Right.
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Right.
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And then basically you're just like paying a bunch of money on ads to keep your estimator busy on low quality leads.
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And then they're low pricing to keep your crew busy out in the field.
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And you have this one like very unprofitable system.
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And so one of the biggest things I think we do is like, hey, in the job ad, we're making it clear you're going in the field if you're not getting enough leads.
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What do you think would be a good measure for someone that might not have all their systems yet?
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They're growing very quickly.
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They might not even know the seasonal aspects of lead flow yet.
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What would be some of the metrics they could use to make it clear to a salesperson as to when they go in the field?
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Is that like number of estimates, number of sold jobs?
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Because you could stay busy doing outbound, doing upsells and still fill up your pipeline.
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Right.
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So what might be, and this is something I know we didn't ever do back in the day, but like what could be a metric someone could use to say your sales, but when this number hits here, you're back in the field.
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Yeah, I think it's a great question.
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I would say it really comes down to number of estimates sent and then also tying that to close ratio.
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So they can't be junk estimates.
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So they have to balance each other.
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Any estimator worth their salt can go type up 50 estimates today and just send it out.
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Right?
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Complementary estimates.
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But if one out of 50 closes, like, was that worth the owner's spend to pay that estimator for the day to sit behind a computer and type up 50 junk complimentary estimates?
202
00:13:34.705 --> 00:13:36.968
So almost maybe like, hey, you have to have this amount of volume.
203
00:13:37.008 --> 00:13:40.974
But if your close ratio drops below this point, say 30%, you're back in the field.
204
00:13:41.114 --> 00:13:41.275
Right.
205
00:13:41.555 --> 00:13:41.875
Correct.
206
00:13:41.935 --> 00:13:42.336
Exactly.
207
00:13:42.356 --> 00:13:43.017
And that's what I'm thinking.
208
00:13:43.037 --> 00:13:44.478
You have to kind of tie those two together.
209
00:13:44.498 --> 00:13:46.360
Like sales is a volume game, right?
210
00:13:46.380 --> 00:13:46.961
It's just numbers.
211
00:13:46.981 --> 00:13:48.422
Like we need to get estimates out.
212
00:13:48.462 --> 00:13:52.406
We know we will get more sales if we put up more estimates, like directly correlative.
213
00:13:52.726 --> 00:13:54.008
However, they can't be garbage.
214
00:13:54.028 --> 00:13:55.569
They can't just be sent out just to be sent out.
215
00:13:55.609 --> 00:13:58.092
So I need to anchor that to close ratio.
216
00:13:58.332 --> 00:14:00.614
Hey, we still need to hit our target close ratio.
217
00:14:00.955 --> 00:14:03.317
Let's just say we're in profit mode somewhere between 30 to 50 percent.
218
00:14:04.178 --> 00:14:12.703
If we're closing 30 to 50% of these jobs you're sending out and you're sending out an average of X per day, X per week, whatever we define as that metric, then you're good.
219
00:14:12.763 --> 00:14:14.024
You can stay full-time sales.
220
00:14:14.645 --> 00:14:25.912
If we aren't hitting that X, the volume, the number we need to get out, and we are missing our target close ratio, then we might need to go back into production because we can't afford to just send out estimates for the sake of sending out estimates.
221
00:14:26.535 --> 00:14:28.496
I want to talk about compensation for a minute.
222
00:14:28.516 --> 00:14:32.918
And like one of the biggest flaws I see in home services is salespeople getting a commission.
223
00:14:33.658 --> 00:14:35.779
So they're basically incentivized on closing the job.
224
00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:37.359
They don't really care about profitability.
225
00:14:37.479 --> 00:14:38.560
They don't care about budget hours.
226
00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:41.021
They don't care about anything besides getting the job on the schedule.
227
00:14:41.441 --> 00:14:42.501
So commission-based.
228
00:14:42.882 --> 00:14:45.883
And then the crew not having any incentive around getting it done efficiently.
229
00:14:46.143 --> 00:14:47.944
This is like the worst scenario.
230
00:14:48.164 --> 00:14:50.104
He has as many jobs accepted as possible.
231
00:14:50.305 --> 00:14:51.065
He cares about the profit.
232
00:14:51.385 --> 00:14:53.766
And then the people doing the work don't also care about the profit.
233
00:14:54.006 --> 00:14:56.227
And then people wonder why the business makes no money.
234
00:14:56.347 --> 00:14:57.067
Yes.
235
00:14:57.507 --> 00:15:00.168
From a sales perspective, because I think from a production perspective, we're aligned.
236
00:15:00.868 --> 00:15:01.728
Pay for performance.
237
00:15:01.828 --> 00:15:02.028
Yes.
238
00:15:02.248 --> 00:15:06.489
Keeps the estimator somewhat honest on budget hours and makes sure that there's enough budget hours.
239
00:15:06.509 --> 00:15:14.090
Because if I'm giving this person commission, but they're cutting budget hours, they're cutting supplies, and the crew is mad, it kind of keeps the estimator honest.
240
00:15:14.451 --> 00:15:21.712
What other incentives or things you think of could keep an estimator honest to making sure the jobs are not only sold, but they're done efficiently and profitably?
241
00:15:21.732 --> 00:15:21.972
Mm-hmm.
242
00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:23.661
Yeah, it's a great question.
243
00:15:23.681 --> 00:15:26.242
And I would say I don't mind sharing like my personal experience.
244
00:15:26.322 --> 00:15:29.183
You gave me a piece of the pie and that's profit sharing at Augusta.
245
00:15:29.544 --> 00:15:35.987
And so that means that I am not only, yes, incentivized to keep the schedule full, but I'm incentivized to keep the schedule full of profitable jobs.
246
00:15:36.327 --> 00:15:47.973
So actually now as an estimator, I might work a little bit harder to close a job that I know is higher margin than one that's lower margin, lower ticket and an easier sell because I know I'm also getting a piece of the profit that I'm selling for the business.
247
00:15:48.253 --> 00:15:55.335
And that was a balance that we struck is that, yes, there should be some commission elements of like, hey, the volume that you do, the close ratio that you're hitting.
248
00:15:55.535 --> 00:15:57.936
Like, yes, we want to incentivize that from a sales perspective.
249
00:15:58.336 --> 00:16:00.917
But we also need the business to be successful long term.
250
00:16:00.937 --> 00:16:02.117
And that means bottom line profit.
251
00:16:02.397 --> 00:16:07.899
So I would recommend kind of based on the way you paid me is like give your estimator a piece of the bottom line profit.
252
00:16:08.079 --> 00:16:13.040
That way, you know that when they're offering discounts to customers, they are only doing that when they have to.
253
00:16:13.380 --> 00:16:19.985
That way, you know, when they're working the extra hours to close high margin jobs, they're doing it because they're incentivized to do it.
254
00:16:20.045 --> 00:16:22.406
And you should be happy that they're trying to close those jobs.
255
00:16:22.486 --> 00:16:25.148
And they understand the balance between like keeping the crew busy.
256
00:16:25.389 --> 00:16:25.569
Yes.
257
00:16:25.789 --> 00:16:31.793
And not letting the trucks sit idle, but also making sure it's high enough revenue and margin to where there's profit sharing at the end of the day.
258
00:16:31.893 --> 00:16:32.293
Exactly.
259
00:16:32.313 --> 00:16:36.897
Do you remember roughly like percentage wise, was it like 25, 30% of your pay was bonus?
260
00:16:37.377 --> 00:16:38.037
Or was it more?
261
00:16:38.057 --> 00:16:38.538
Was it 50% bonus?
262
00:16:39.038 --> 00:16:43.181
Uh, well, when I was in the sales role, it was, it just wasn't a structured, right?
263
00:16:43.241 --> 00:16:45.082
So it was still a decent base.
264
00:16:45.122 --> 00:16:48.684
A good chunk of it was still base, um, because we hadn't really built out the systems.
265
00:16:48.804 --> 00:16:57.869
But, uh, when I moved into more of like the manager's role, kind of managing the production and then working with Marcus on sales, cause we were, you know, when you have an office manager of a $2 million company.
266
00:16:58.129 --> 00:17:02.875
The office manager and the salesperson are kind of doing sales together in terms of how they handle that whole system.
267
00:17:03.355 --> 00:17:06.739
And so that was where I would say it was probably closer to 50-50.
268
00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:11.305
Like once I moved in like a full-time manager's position, sales was probably like 70-30.
269
00:17:11.846 --> 00:17:12.306
Okay.
270
00:17:12.326 --> 00:17:13.648
So like 30% of it was bonus.
271
00:17:13.688 --> 00:17:16.731
30% was like a commission bonus-y type structure.
272
00:17:16.831 --> 00:17:18.113
And then 70% was like my basement.
273
00:17:18.437 --> 00:17:30.849
When it comes to sales, from your perspective, if someone's looking to get an estimator, I think the natural progression is I get someone from my field that is really good at the work, can look at the jobs, know how many budget hours, how much material.
274
00:17:31.550 --> 00:17:34.833
Would you tend to have that person be your estimator?
275
00:17:35.033 --> 00:17:37.956
Again, I'm talking about someone that's going to build a business that has an estimator, full-time sales.
276
00:17:39.057 --> 00:17:58.099
Or would you go out and get someone that is done sales, maybe not in the same industry, but they have the skill of gifted gab, follow up, they don't mind knocking on someone's door, which is harder as a pros and cons to finding a salesperson that is either in-house and I'm training them and they might just be more or less a technician or bringing them from outside but having sales experience.
277
00:17:58.119 --> 00:17:58.280
Mm-hmm.
278
00:17:58.700 --> 00:18:00.161
Yeah, I think it's a really good question.
279
00:18:00.241 --> 00:18:03.864
And let's just assume we're eliminating all the intangibles of these two candidates.
280
00:18:04.284 --> 00:18:07.867
I personally like the in-house hire or the in-house promotion.
281
00:18:08.287 --> 00:18:10.348
One, because they already understand the culture of the company.
282
00:18:10.388 --> 00:18:11.969
They already understand how the culture operates.
283
00:18:11.989 --> 00:18:13.611
They might have already been paid on P4P.
284
00:18:13.891 --> 00:18:15.232
They understand how profit sharing works.
285
00:18:15.432 --> 00:18:19.135
So they're already bought into like core belief systems that you've built into your business.
286
00:18:19.195 --> 00:18:22.377
If you're running it the way that you advise and how most of our owners at Augusta do.
287
00:18:22.797 --> 00:18:28.324
So that person, I can then train on a lot of the sales techniques because sales is a learned skill.
288
00:18:28.404 --> 00:18:29.105
It is a technique.
289
00:18:29.405 --> 00:18:32.289
Yes, maybe there's an outside person that's got the gift of gab.
290
00:18:32.309 --> 00:18:33.991
They're great with customer rapport.
291
00:18:34.031 --> 00:18:35.973
They're a fantastic communicator, very professional.
292
00:18:36.313 --> 00:18:39.958
But learning the industry knowledge, one, is a pretty uphill battle if you're coming from
293
00:18:40.118 --> 00:18:40.899
outside the industry.
294
00:18:41.199 --> 00:18:45.903
And two, I think the culture of the business that you've built out is hard for some salespeople to understand.
295
00:18:45.923 --> 00:18:48.546
Like, why are these guys getting a portion of production?
296
00:18:48.726 --> 00:18:52.929
Like understanding P4P from a sales perspective is like wild, right?
297
00:18:53.090 --> 00:18:53.830
I have a sales coach.
298
00:18:54.090 --> 00:19:01.797
I've even kind of half explained it to him and he was like lost because it's just not common in most worlds to do like, wait, you give your guys a certain percentage of what they generate.
299
00:19:01.817 --> 00:19:02.658
That doesn't even make sense.
300
00:19:02.918 --> 00:19:03.919
How do I then sell that?
301
00:19:03.999 --> 00:19:04.139
Right.
302
00:19:04.159 --> 00:19:05.120
Because that's where salespeople go.
303
00:19:05.140 --> 00:19:06.862
It's like, how do I sell that to the customer?
304
00:19:06.882 --> 00:19:07.042
Right.
305
00:19:07.102 --> 00:19:09.465
And then how do I make sure that I'm getting a cut of whatever, right?
306
00:19:09.545 --> 00:19:11.267
Because salespeople, they want their commissions.
307
00:19:11.367 --> 00:19:12.888
Not a bad thing if they're money hungry.
308
00:19:13.129 --> 00:19:15.952
A money hungry salesperson usually is a good trait in a lot of ways.
309
00:19:16.332 --> 00:19:18.875
It can be bad, but I'm getting off topic.
310
00:19:19.095 --> 00:19:21.658
But the long and short of it is I think the in-house hire makes more sense.
311
00:19:21.698 --> 00:19:24.301
From a cultural perspective, I think that's number one.
312
00:19:24.641 --> 00:19:30.165
And then I think from an alignment of the industry, like they already have done the production.
313
00:19:30.265 --> 00:19:31.586
So they understand production rates.
314
00:19:31.886 --> 00:19:33.167
They understand labor hours.
315
00:19:33.187 --> 00:19:34.148
They understand supplies.
316
00:19:34.388 --> 00:19:39.031
They probably have a good understanding of the cost matrices that we use inside of Augusta or the business.
317
00:19:39.811 --> 00:19:44.995
If you do open book management, like all of these things stack on top of each other, which makes the in-house hire or promotion much easier.
318
00:19:45.215 --> 00:19:49.957
I think too, it's seeing some progression for the technicians that there is a place to move into.
319
00:19:49.977 --> 00:19:53.259
It might not be the general manager because like management different than sales.
320
00:19:53.499 --> 00:19:53.679
Yeah.
321
00:19:53.699 --> 00:19:53.859
Right.
322
00:19:53.879 --> 00:19:58.101
Like, so like there's sometimes great estimators don't become great general managers either.
323
00:19:58.141 --> 00:19:58.322
Yeah.
324
00:19:58.362 --> 00:19:58.522
Right.
325
00:19:58.782 --> 00:20:04.044
So, but there can be a stepping stone or a place for them to move into from production into a sales role.
326
00:20:04.385 --> 00:20:09.167
If they go out and get the talents, listen to audio books, gain skills, get taught how to do the sales side.
327
00:20:09.867 --> 00:20:15.672
I want to talk about if I've hired someone that is a salesperson and they're not doing some of the things I know they should be.
328
00:20:15.752 --> 00:20:16.973
For example, they don't follow up.
329
00:20:17.473 --> 00:20:20.195
They don't say things exactly right to the customers in person.
330
00:20:20.516 --> 00:20:34.427
How do I address or train an estimator as the owner as I'm now trying to let this thing go from seeing all these mistakes and flaws in their process that I am not comfortable really releasing sales to them fully?
331
00:20:34.547 --> 00:20:34.767
Mm-hmm.
332
00:20:35.118 --> 00:20:37.580
Yeah, so that's why I would first always try to look inwardly.
333
00:20:37.840 --> 00:20:40.501
And that is, okay, what did I do to prevent that from happening?
334
00:20:40.701 --> 00:20:41.582
So how did I train them?
335
00:20:41.602 --> 00:20:46.965
What resources did I give them to avoid these faux pas or these mistakes or whatever it may have been?
336
00:20:47.546 --> 00:20:51.788
And then secondarily to that, did I set up a structure to avoid that in the future?
337
00:20:52.208 --> 00:20:57.512
And so this is very common in the sales world, like stepping out of home services for a second just to bring it in.
338
00:20:57.932 --> 00:21:01.074
I think it wouldn't be a bad idea is in the sales world is call reviews.
339
00:21:01.574 --> 00:21:01.754
Right.
340
00:21:01.794 --> 00:21:09.779
Where a sales manager does a call review on a regular basis with any of their frontline reps. And that means, hey, we're going to pull up a recording of your call.
341
00:21:09.859 --> 00:21:10.839
We're going to listen to it together.
342
00:21:10.859 --> 00:21:12.800
And you're going to tell me all the good and bad stuff you did.
343
00:21:12.940 --> 00:21:17.343
And I'm going to tell you all the good and bad stuff you did because I want you to be a great rep and I want you to make more money.
344
00:21:17.803 --> 00:21:20.364
And I think we can apply that to the home services world.
345
00:21:20.685 --> 00:21:23.126
And that's where, you know, we did kind of one to one training.
346
00:21:23.166 --> 00:21:23.286
Right.
347
00:21:23.306 --> 00:21:25.547
You and I just drove around on the truck for like two, three days.
348
00:21:25.587 --> 00:21:27.448
And then you were like, all right, here's here's the keys.
349
00:21:27.488 --> 00:21:28.229
Start doing sales.
350
00:21:28.249 --> 00:21:28.509
Right.
351
00:21:29.329 --> 00:21:34.690
But in those two to three days we drove around together, we would get back in the truck and you'd be like, hey, maybe say this, don't say that.
352
00:21:34.770 --> 00:21:37.031
Hey, when we do our follow-up, we should do X, Y, and Z.
353
00:21:37.251 --> 00:21:38.431
And that's that live feedback.
354
00:21:38.571 --> 00:21:39.992
And you and I had the rapport to do that.
355
00:21:40.292 --> 00:21:51.654
You're scaling rapidly, or you already have an existing salesperson that's maybe outside of the lines, they're not following the script, they're making these faux pas, these mistakes, like set up a schedule to start doing reviews with them.
356
00:21:51.955 --> 00:21:57.636
Make it less about, hey, I need to come down on you, more about, hey, I want to align with you and make sure you're crushing it at your job.
357
00:21:58.216 --> 00:22:06.944
And that would be kind of my tool that I would use is set up a time to meet with this person, do call reviews with them, do email reviews, whatever sort of follow-up review you want to do.
358
00:22:07.564 --> 00:22:16.872
And then the last kind of piece of advice, I'm getting long-winded here, the last piece of advice, and I got this from my coach, literally anytime you want to give someone feedback, just prime them for feedback.
359
00:22:17.413 --> 00:22:20.075
Quite literally, just prime them first so they know it's coming.
360
00:22:20.415 --> 00:22:24.699
And then when you know you're doing it successfully is you will get it as a joke back to you.
361
00:22:25.099 --> 00:22:26.260
So this is all he says.
362
00:22:26.300 --> 00:22:28.261
He says, Mike, can I give you some feedback real quick?
363
00:22:29.061 --> 00:22:29.181
Right?
364
00:22:29.201 --> 00:22:33.263
And that's if you hear your estimator doing a follow-up call and they just say something just like way off the road.
365
00:22:33.283 --> 00:22:34.303
Like, why did they say that?
366
00:22:34.404 --> 00:22:34.524
Right?
367
00:22:34.544 --> 00:22:36.425
You're sitting there and we've all had that experience.
368
00:22:36.445 --> 00:22:39.426
If you've managed a salesperson before, you're like, why in the world did you say that?
369
00:22:39.946 --> 00:22:42.187
When they get off the call, you're like, hey, Mike, do you have a second?
370
00:22:42.207 --> 00:22:43.028
Can I give you some feedback?
371
00:22:43.388 --> 00:22:44.729
And then they're primed and ready for that.
372
00:22:45.009 --> 00:22:47.850
And sometimes you sprinkle in like, that was a great call.
373
00:22:47.910 --> 00:22:49.511
I loved that you said X, Y, and Z phrase.
374
00:22:49.831 --> 00:22:51.612
And they're like ecstatic you gave them that feedback.
375
00:22:52.032 --> 00:22:57.335
But you can also use it as a corrective way to be like, hey, when you said this, I think the customer might perceive it as unprofessional.
376
00:22:57.456 --> 00:22:59.457
And so we need to make sure we're saying that.
377
00:22:59.697 --> 00:23:00.397
Does that make sense?
378
00:23:00.898 --> 00:23:03.660
And so that would be the biggest thing is like it needs to be a culture of feedback.
379
00:23:03.800 --> 00:23:04.040
All right.
380
00:23:04.280 --> 00:23:08.723
Stepping back from more of a systems perspective, creating a sales process.
381
00:23:08.743 --> 00:23:08.923
Yeah.
382
00:23:09.183 --> 00:23:16.091
As in something that we did at the Bellingham shop, then it was like, how do we systematize this across the gust nation, even on the phone estimates, instant quotes.
383
00:23:16.512 --> 00:23:22.399
But if you were to walk into a shop, a million, two million in revenue, they do some projects and they have a salesperson.
384
00:23:22.959 --> 00:23:25.963
And they basically are like, hey, I do not have a sales process.
385
00:23:26.323 --> 00:23:30.005
How this works is someone calls in, they say, I have a job.
386
00:23:30.085 --> 00:23:30.725
I go out there.
387
00:23:30.785 --> 00:23:31.786
I put some numbers together.
388
00:23:31.826 --> 00:23:32.646
I talk about with them.
389
00:23:32.986 --> 00:23:33.767
They say yes, no.
390
00:23:33.787 --> 00:23:34.587
Like, I don't know.
391
00:23:34.847 --> 00:23:35.868
We don't really keep track of it.
392
00:23:35.908 --> 00:23:44.332
Like, what would be the first few things you'd be doing in like the first 90 days to actually correct or create a structure for their sales process?
393
00:23:44.492 --> 00:23:44.652
Mm-hmm.
394
00:23:45.080 --> 00:23:47.681
Yeah, so the first thing that I'm going to do is metrics.
395
00:23:48.602 --> 00:23:53.084
I need to understand what metrics they are, one, trying to achieve and are currently attaining to.
396
00:23:53.465 --> 00:23:55.806
So what are they doing right now in the business?
397
00:23:56.166 --> 00:23:57.567
What does their close ratio look like?
398
00:23:57.867 --> 00:23:59.328
What does their sales cycle look like?
399
00:23:59.368 --> 00:24:05.391
So the time period from lead to close or lead to answer from the customer, what does that look like?
400
00:24:05.731 --> 00:24:07.992
I need to understand what their follow-up sequence currently is.
401
00:24:08.052 --> 00:24:09.713
It sounds like it's non-existent, right?
402
00:24:10.093 --> 00:24:14.494
And so I need to understand all these metrics, the measurables, to then put a plan in place.
403
00:24:14.775 --> 00:24:17.175
So if the goals are volume, we want to make more sales.
404
00:24:17.256 --> 00:24:17.796
Okay, great.
405
00:24:17.816 --> 00:24:24.258
I need to know what their close ratio is to see, are we even going to achieve these volume goals, right?
406
00:24:24.338 --> 00:24:28.020
If the goal is more profit, then I need to understand their pricing structure, right?
407
00:24:28.100 --> 00:24:33.862
Another metric to understand what margin we're trying to hit to see if it even is even in the ballpark of the way in which we're selling.
408
00:24:34.182 --> 00:24:35.043
And so that's the first thing.
409
00:24:35.063 --> 00:24:35.963
I'm looking at the metrics.
410
00:24:36.204 --> 00:24:38.585
And that's going to be top of mind would be like close ratio.
411
00:24:38.786 --> 00:24:40.347
How many jobs are we closing on average?
412
00:24:40.667 --> 00:24:40.827
Right.
413
00:24:40.867 --> 00:24:43.309
I'm looking at are we what's the goal of the business?
414
00:24:43.349 --> 00:24:45.311
Are we optimizing for growth or profit?
415
00:24:45.451 --> 00:24:47.292
If growth, what does that growth look like?
416
00:24:47.332 --> 00:24:48.693
Year over year, month over month, whatever.
417
00:24:49.054 --> 00:24:49.714
If profit.
418
00:24:49.814 --> 00:24:50.294
OK, great.
419
00:24:50.635 --> 00:24:52.056
What margin are we looking for?
420
00:24:52.596 --> 00:24:56.059
And then the more granular metrics of the actual sales process.
421
00:24:56.539 --> 00:24:58.581
And that's going to be what does our follow-up process look like?
422
00:24:58.661 --> 00:25:00.502
How many times are we following up?
423
00:25:00.842 --> 00:25:04.625
What is our sales cycle look like in terms of timeline from lead to close?
424
00:25:05.006 --> 00:25:05.986
All these different metrics.
425
00:25:06.306 --> 00:25:08.108
I first need to understand all of that.
426
00:25:08.448 --> 00:25:10.490
So for me, if I'm stepping in, it's data collection.
427
00:25:10.970 --> 00:25:14.653
And you believe in this and you speak this to your audience all the time is data-driven decisions.
428
00:25:15.053 --> 00:25:16.954
I understand how the business operates currently.
429
00:25:17.435 --> 00:25:21.398
Once I understand that, then we're going to put a plan in place to help them achieve their goals.
430
00:25:22.017 --> 00:25:22.557
Okay.
431
00:25:22.577 --> 00:25:32.883
And in terms of doing that cross-functionally, so for example, especially at a larger business, impacting the sales role actually has an impact a lot on admin.
432
00:25:32.903 --> 00:25:34.924
It affects the operations.
433
00:25:35.264 --> 00:25:50.672
And if you now have multiple managers, as you do a GM plus model, having sales manager, operations manager, admin manager, when you want to make sales tweaks, you want to basically change the way that the sales process is operating, but it's affecting all these downstream impact, like impacting all these other people.
434
00:25:51.372 --> 00:25:55.616
What are some of the rules from more of a management side that you're going to have to talk to an office manager?
435
00:25:55.636 --> 00:25:56.157
Okay.
436
00:25:56.197 --> 00:25:58.819
Hey, we're doing scripts this way now.
437
00:25:59.079 --> 00:25:59.340
Yeah.
438
00:25:59.380 --> 00:26:01.682
Like the way the inbound forms need to look like this.
439
00:26:01.702 --> 00:26:13.953
From more of a management perspective, but putting more of a sales hat on, what kind of conversations are you having with operations and admin to make sure that we're all on the same page outside of just like, yes, we all want the business to do well and make more money?
440
00:26:13.993 --> 00:26:14.494
Mm-hmm.
441
00:26:14.897 --> 00:26:20.000
Yeah, it's aligning the goals of each individual role together to like the greater vision of the company.
442
00:26:20.380 --> 00:26:28.304
And that's something you've done really well at the speaking more from the franchise level is that you have your operations, your administrative and your salesperson.
443
00:26:28.344 --> 00:26:29.145
I'm the salesperson.
444
00:26:29.465 --> 00:26:36.529
And so they all do live in tension in some way, like as a business, they all have their own priorities, but they're all chasing one specific goal.
445
00:26:36.769 --> 00:26:39.430
And that is ultimately to make the business as profitable as possible.
446
00:26:39.631 --> 00:26:40.371
Typically, right.
447
00:26:40.391 --> 00:26:41.852
That's the goal or a certain rate of growth.
448
00:26:42.452 --> 00:26:47.814
And so it's understanding that changes in the sales process will impact operations and admin.
449
00:26:47.834 --> 00:26:48.674
Like discounts.
450
00:26:48.994 --> 00:26:50.555
Oh yeah, we're going to throw that in there.
451
00:26:50.815 --> 00:26:54.637
And those are required to get the sale, but it also creates downstream effects.
452
00:26:54.697 --> 00:26:55.037
Correct.
453
00:26:55.197 --> 00:27:04.580
And so it's understanding that like, hey, when we are making changes to a sales process via discount, via promotion, via whatever, you know, it's the new year, right?
454
00:27:04.600 --> 00:27:06.341
So corporate sales kickoff season, right?
455
00:27:06.361 --> 00:27:06.661
It's like,
456
00:27:06.841 --> 00:27:14.808
You know, whatever new promotion or thing you're doing is showing one, the admin and the operations, how that aligns with the overall goals of the business.
457
00:27:14.828 --> 00:27:19.713
Hey, we're doing this because it aligns with the overall goals of the business in X way.
458
00:27:20.033 --> 00:27:20.233
Right.
459
00:27:20.474 --> 00:27:27.300
And so making that very clear and then understanding from their perspective, like, what do you need to make this as smooth as possible?
460
00:27:27.320 --> 00:27:27.500
Right.
461
00:27:27.640 --> 00:27:32.581
I know that if we start doing sales like this, it's going to change operations slightly.
462
00:27:33.121 --> 00:27:38.142
So how can we better make that a smoother transition for you as my operations person?
463
00:27:38.422 --> 00:27:40.182
So it's just further working towards alignment.
464
00:27:40.542 --> 00:27:50.044
So in this podcast, Lee and I are talking a lot about salespeople and aligning their incentives with that of the business, would be commission or some form of profit sharing.
465
00:27:50.544 --> 00:27:55.825
But if you haven't yet done this for your technicians out in the field, I wouldn't worry about thinking about a salesperson.
466
00:27:56.265 --> 00:28:04.711
We've got to make sure that the team out in the field, the technicians are aligned with the incentives of the business, which is we want the jobs done as fast as possible and the customer satisfied.
467
00:28:05.051 --> 00:28:09.654
And that's what we call pay for performance, where the employees, the harder they work, the more money they make.
468
00:28:09.974 --> 00:28:12.576
They get a percentage of all the labor revenue that they earn for the business.
469
00:28:13.116 --> 00:28:24.624
And if you want to know how to implement this in your business, go check out p4psoftware.com, go to the training section, it's completely free and you can make your technicians out in the field 20 to 30% more efficient and pay them a lot more.
470
00:28:24.904 --> 00:28:25.625
So go check it out.
471
00:28:25.985 --> 00:28:36.959
Maybe talk to me a little bit about, you kind of saw us going at the Bellingham shop from very complex services and you understanding a lot about the project management and grading and degrees and all this other stuff when it comes to projects.
472
00:28:37.360 --> 00:28:44.169
And you kind of saw the evolution of, as you handed off to Marcus and then Marcus downwards, it was like simplification.
473
00:28:44.769 --> 00:28:48.854
And so when it comes to that, I think one of the things I think estimators is like it gets boring.
474
00:28:49.194 --> 00:28:50.916
It's like, look, I'm doing property cleanups.
475
00:28:51.216 --> 00:28:52.838
I'm doing maybe some molten stalls.
476
00:28:53.058 --> 00:28:54.219
This is very basic.
477
00:28:54.580 --> 00:29:01.948
How do you keep an estimator motivated to actually do those type of jobs when they're not actually strategically or like mechanically?
478
00:29:02.468 --> 00:29:04.529
But from a skill set, they're not being challenged.
479
00:29:04.769 --> 00:29:05.970
And it is much more of a game of numbers.
480
00:29:05.990 --> 00:29:09.191
And I say this also to give you a rose here.
481
00:29:09.211 --> 00:29:13.493
And that is like one thing when it comes to the franchise, like you have not ever been like, I need something new.
482
00:29:13.513 --> 00:29:15.274
It's like we do the exact same thing.
483
00:29:15.374 --> 00:29:18.116
It's the same numbers, the same questions being asked.
484
00:29:18.496 --> 00:29:21.237
People are joining Augusta and they have the same 52 questions.
485
00:29:21.597 --> 00:29:23.298
And you just got to know them like the back of your hand.
486
00:29:23.719 --> 00:29:30.582
And so I have seen a lot of diligence in your part to stay focused and just be honing the craft of the process of,
487
00:29:30.882 --> 00:29:34.805
For an estimator, it's like, I just bored with the numbers and the sales and the metrics.
488
00:29:35.085 --> 00:29:37.067
I just want more complicated things to work on.
489
00:29:37.507 --> 00:29:39.869
And I fell in this trap even before you came along.
490
00:29:39.889 --> 00:29:42.891
And that's when we started adding putting greens and artificial turf.
491
00:29:43.171 --> 00:29:46.874
I wanted to keep that person motivated and engaged and challenged.
492
00:29:46.934 --> 00:29:47.454
That was the word.
493
00:29:47.494 --> 00:29:49.096
I want to keep them challenged.
494
00:29:49.716 --> 00:29:51.918
Not knowing that that challenge becomes my challenge very soon.
495
00:29:52.058 --> 00:29:52.258
Yeah.
496
00:29:52.498 --> 00:29:55.561
And so what would you say to the person that is having an estimator?
497
00:29:55.581 --> 00:29:57.644
They have some of that role and they've been in it for a year.
498
00:29:57.704 --> 00:30:00.947
They've been in it for two years and they're pushing them for more complex projects.
499
00:30:01.187 --> 00:30:04.491
Most is so they can stay more challenged in that role.
500
00:30:05.352 --> 00:30:06.273
Yeah, I think it would.
501
00:30:06.513 --> 00:30:08.255
I would zoom out in that conversation.
502
00:30:08.315 --> 00:30:10.077
So let's just say I'm business owner.
503
00:30:10.097 --> 00:30:10.738
You're the estimator.
504
00:30:10.758 --> 00:30:12.660
That's that's bored, tired, wanting some challenge.
505
00:30:13.560 --> 00:30:17.221
The way I'm going to approach it with you is I'm going to see like, hey, what are your goals long term?
506
00:30:17.681 --> 00:30:21.121
Like, and does that align with the short term and long term goals of the business?
507
00:30:21.502 --> 00:30:27.223
And if it does, then hopefully I can explain how keeping this process the way that it is, is going to benefit you long term.
508
00:30:27.603 --> 00:30:27.763
Right.
509
00:30:27.803 --> 00:30:29.723
And so if the goal is like, hey, I want to be challenged.
510
00:30:29.843 --> 00:30:31.763
OK, what does challenge look like to you?
511
00:30:32.223 --> 00:30:35.804
Is that you just want to bid and sell more high ticket jobs, more complex jobs?
512
00:30:36.124 --> 00:30:40.885
Or does that mean challenging your career and maybe getting promoted to a management position from sales to manager?
513
00:30:41.465 --> 00:30:45.687
And if it is more so, hey, I just want to sell more complex jobs and hire a ticket.
514
00:30:45.967 --> 00:30:47.928
OK, well, then it might not be a long term fit.
515
00:30:48.048 --> 00:30:48.208
Right.
516
00:30:48.408 --> 00:30:49.629
And that's something that it's hard.
517
00:30:49.689 --> 00:30:51.030
It's easy to say on a podcast.
518
00:30:51.190 --> 00:30:53.151
It's harder to do in practice, obviously.
519
00:30:53.551 --> 00:30:54.632
But you did that.
520
00:30:54.792 --> 00:30:54.972
Right.
521
00:30:55.052 --> 00:31:01.355
As you just said, a real world example is like we were going to lose a very highly skilled team member who is an awesome guy, great to work with.
522
00:31:01.775 --> 00:31:03.856
And you were like, OK, he knows how to do turf.
523
00:31:04.016 --> 00:31:04.957
I don't want to lose this guy.
524
00:31:05.017 --> 00:31:07.658
Let's just start doing turf and he can sell it and he can install it.
525
00:31:08.118 --> 00:31:12.860
But then we lost him like six months after we started doing that, which you now realize was a bad business decision.
526
00:31:13.500 --> 00:31:16.881
And ultimately, it's easier to say on a podcast, harder to do in practice.
527
00:31:16.901 --> 00:31:28.486
But you probably would have now with hindsight being 2020, you would have rather that person just left and not had that six months of pain of figuring out turf installations and then refunding multiple customers.
528
00:31:28.666 --> 00:31:28.866
Right.
529
00:31:29.186 --> 00:31:31.347
And so that's the real world example.
530
00:31:31.367 --> 00:31:32.047
That's the proof.
531
00:31:32.367 --> 00:31:38.349
But ultimately, it's do their long term goals align with what my company is headed towards in terms of direction.
532
00:31:38.729 --> 00:31:45.571
And I think to come back to you talking about me personally, like my long term goals are like long term, I want to have an impact on this industry.
533
00:31:45.591 --> 00:31:46.751
I want to help small business owners.
534
00:31:47.111 --> 00:31:48.131
And I'm money motivated.
535
00:31:48.171 --> 00:31:50.472
Like, I'm not afraid to say that I am money motivated.
536
00:31:50.772 --> 00:31:58.516
And I know that there's money on the table in the future if I just put my head down and answer the same 52 questions every single day from people interested in joining Augusta.
537
00:31:58.917 --> 00:32:00.377
And for some salespeople, they would hate that.
538
00:32:00.718 --> 00:32:00.918
Right.
539
00:32:00.958 --> 00:32:01.858
And I don't mind it.
540
00:32:01.918 --> 00:32:03.539
Like, does it get boring at times?
541
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:04.740
Like, no, it never does.
542
00:32:04.820 --> 00:32:07.622
It never gets boring if you have questions about Augusta.
543
00:32:07.682 --> 00:32:08.062
Never.
544
00:32:08.402 --> 00:32:09.002
Does it get boring?
545
00:32:09.042 --> 00:32:09.823
No, no, no, no, no.
546
00:32:10.683 --> 00:32:11.304
Yeah, it gets boring.
547
00:32:11.504 --> 00:32:11.984
Like it does.
548
00:32:12.144 --> 00:32:12.944
It gets tiring.
549
00:32:12.964 --> 00:32:16.026
Like you're like, I'm doing the same thing over and over and over again.
550
00:32:16.426 --> 00:32:21.768
But my overall goals in life for me personally align with the overall mission of Augusta.
551
00:32:21.888 --> 00:32:25.290
And so I'm willing to put my head down and have that repetitive monotony.
552
00:32:25.630 --> 00:32:27.531
But I also have access to you and the rest of the team.
553
00:32:27.571 --> 00:32:29.072
And there's so much more at Augusta.
554
00:32:29.432 --> 00:32:31.873
And so that's the conversation you have to have with your estimator.
555
00:32:32.093 --> 00:32:37.337
For someone that might have an estimator or maybe even a general manager that might feel like they're doing the same thing all the time.
556
00:32:37.657 --> 00:32:43.102
Because as you simplify and you standardize services, especially on the sales side, it just does become monotonous.
557
00:32:43.762 --> 00:32:50.267
And for the person that's not money motivated, because it's always very like, well, we have targets for close ratio, we have targets for profit sharing.
558
00:32:50.287 --> 00:32:51.869
And this person's like, I don't really care.
559
00:32:51.889 --> 00:32:53.270
I'm making a decent wage.
560
00:32:53.370 --> 00:32:55.251
I just want to do different stuff.
561
00:32:55.271 --> 00:32:56.512
I want to be more complex.
562
00:32:56.532 --> 00:32:56.692
Like...
563
00:32:57.653 --> 00:32:59.595
speak to the estimator for a minute.
564
00:33:01.416 --> 00:33:02.237
What would you say to them?
565
00:33:02.297 --> 00:33:07.721
Because I think one of your greatest skills is your ability to take something that is monotonous, but still improve it.
566
00:33:08.162 --> 00:33:13.486
And so if you look at our sales process, like the franchise, for example, three or four years ago versus now, it's like worlds apart.
567
00:33:13.526 --> 00:33:13.806
Yeah, yeah.
568
00:33:13.866 --> 00:33:16.970
And like we would definitely cry over our sales process years ago.
569
00:33:17.491 --> 00:33:30.527
And so what have you done and speak to that estimator to stay focused on your craft and become leagues better in that department without needing new or different things coming along to pique your interest?
570
00:33:30.983 --> 00:33:41.612
Yeah, to the estimator out there, to the employee out there that is in a sales role, I think it is understanding, you know, and you don't have to be inside of Augusta, but our number one core value at Augusta is number one for a reason.
571
00:33:41.752 --> 00:33:43.093
That's embracing constant improvement.
572
00:33:43.433 --> 00:33:49.178
Constant improvement does not mean new or exciting or external challenges.
573
00:33:49.538 --> 00:33:53.441
Constant improvement is I can make the thing that I'm already doing better every single day.
574
00:33:54.002 --> 00:33:57.004
And to your point, that's what we've done over the last three, four years.
575
00:33:57.044 --> 00:34:02.869
You and I, with the Augusta sales process, we would look back and cry, laugh, mock, whatever we were doing three, four years ago.
576
00:34:03.290 --> 00:34:04.571
And now it's completely different.
577
00:34:04.891 --> 00:34:06.452
And that's, it's the same thing.
578
00:34:06.632 --> 00:34:10.135
Like my daily tasks are the same overall from a comparative perspective.
579
00:34:10.155 --> 00:34:13.078
It's like take calls, take notes, do follow up.
580
00:34:13.538 --> 00:34:17.399
But the system in which we've created over the last three to four years is night and day.
581
00:34:17.419 --> 00:34:21.360
And that's because I've really sunk my teeth into the constant improvement of that thing.
582
00:34:21.680 --> 00:34:23.301
And that's the challenge in and of itself.
583
00:34:23.781 --> 00:34:31.363
And so if you ever feel like speaking very directly to the estimator or the employee that might be listening to this, if you ever think like you've maxed out, like think again.
584
00:34:32.186 --> 00:34:35.972
Like just in all honesty, like I'm the best landscape salesperson out there.
585
00:34:36.012 --> 00:34:36.813
Like that's great.
586
00:34:36.973 --> 00:34:38.295
And you might have awesome skills.
587
00:34:38.315 --> 00:34:40.118
Like that's not me shouting you down.
588
00:34:40.398 --> 00:34:44.905
You might have great skills and fantastic customer rapport and you can sell, you know, ice to an Eskimo, if you will.
589
00:34:45.446 --> 00:34:46.968
But ultimately you can still get better.
590
00:34:47.188 --> 00:34:48.589
Like there's somebody out there better than you.
591
00:34:48.609 --> 00:34:57.495
And this is something that I realize that helps me with my monotony to get real personal is when I'm like, when I'm sitting there, like, man, this is boring.
592
00:34:57.515 --> 00:34:58.515
Like, I don't want to do this.
593
00:34:58.756 --> 00:35:02.478
I'm like, there is someone out there selling something else that wishes they were selling what I'm selling.
594
00:35:03.466 --> 00:35:03.966
Quite literally.
595
00:35:04.366 --> 00:35:08.949
And for the estimators in this industry, a lot of us get to drive around in cars or trucks.
596
00:35:09.069 --> 00:35:10.790
You get to go visit beautiful properties.
597
00:35:10.810 --> 00:35:17.073
You get to talk to awesome homeowners, affluent people, people you'd never meet in regular life because they asked for an appointment at your house.
598
00:35:17.333 --> 00:35:19.774
There are salespeople out there that dream of doing what you do.
599
00:35:20.394 --> 00:35:22.095
There are days where I'm sure you do too.
600
00:35:22.236 --> 00:35:26.699
You wish you could just get in the estimator car, crank the AC and go like walk multimillion dollar properties.
601
00:35:27.079 --> 00:35:28.980
Like and have awesome conversations with these people.
602
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:32.663
And so it's that perspective of like, there are people that wish they could have my job.
603
00:35:32.683 --> 00:35:32.863
Right.
604
00:35:33.183 --> 00:35:34.304
And sometimes I think about it too.
605
00:35:34.324 --> 00:35:37.046
Like there's probably some like guy who does massive high ticket sales.
606
00:35:37.066 --> 00:35:38.427
Like I'm talking millions in sales.
607
00:35:38.627 --> 00:35:43.290
He's like, man, if I could just sell a franchise license right now, my life would be so much easier.
608
00:35:43.690 --> 00:35:43.910
Right.
609
00:35:43.991 --> 00:35:45.171
And so it's the perspective of it.
610
00:35:45.191 --> 00:35:45.331
Yeah.
611
00:35:45.572 --> 00:35:45.932
Ultimately.
612
00:35:45.952 --> 00:35:46.072
Yeah.
613
00:35:46.172 --> 00:35:50.874
And I think, too, one thing I think about even is seeing what good looks like.
614
00:35:51.214 --> 00:35:55.315
And you then being able to get a coach to be like, oh, you have all these holes.
615
00:35:55.455 --> 00:35:57.536
And you think, hey, I'm good.
616
00:35:57.896 --> 00:36:01.038
Or someone that might be an estimator feeling like, hey, I'm doing the same thing.
617
00:36:01.458 --> 00:36:07.020
To go shadow or learn or get a coach or be able to see someone that's at a whole other level
618
00:36:07.640 --> 00:36:09.140
And then be able to bring it back to reality.
619
00:36:09.200 --> 00:36:11.841
Like, okay, there's a lot of areas for me to improve.
620
00:36:11.861 --> 00:36:21.343
One of the things I always think about is, like, the difference of, like, average and then, like, a master or a masterpiece is simply how long they stay in mode of improvement versus addition.
621
00:36:22.043 --> 00:36:25.943
And so, like, if you think about a masterpiece, like a painting, it takes years to, like, craft it and hone it.
622
00:36:25.963 --> 00:36:32.285
And, like, some of the things, like, the masterpieces we look up to, whether it be painting or sculptures, like, these are years.
623
00:36:32.645 --> 00:36:34.245
And, like, every other artist,
624
00:36:34.525 --> 00:36:57.722
architect or person like sculptor could have made that but they got distracted with four other sculptors that they built over the course of the five years whereas one person just constantly kept improving the one thing that they were good at and it took it from the average 50 percentile to the 99th percentile and so i think seeing you even like looking at coaching and getting someone else's perspective on your system and refining making better has also led to a lot of returns
625
00:36:58.205 --> 00:36:59.826
Yeah, I think you have to be open to that.
626
00:36:59.846 --> 00:37:05.209
And I appreciate the kind of compliment there is that you have to be open to realizing you can always improve it.
627
00:37:05.229 --> 00:37:09.111
You can get outside perspective and staying focused on the one thing like can be boring.
628
00:37:09.331 --> 00:37:10.252
It can be right.
629
00:37:10.272 --> 00:37:11.552
And that's kind of what we're talking about here.
630
00:37:12.053 --> 00:37:14.734
But ultimately, I don't even think it's passion driven.
631
00:37:14.774 --> 00:37:16.795
Like a lot of people are like, oh, are you passionate about sales?
632
00:37:16.815 --> 00:37:21.318
Like if you would have asked me five years ago, but I want a full time sales desk job.
633
00:37:21.338 --> 00:37:24.980
Like honestly, if you asked me that five years ago, I'd be like, I would do any other job in the world.
634
00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:25.981
Quite literally.
635
00:37:26.341 --> 00:37:28.483
And guess what I've done for four years in a row now?
636
00:37:28.703 --> 00:37:30.664
A full-time sales desk job.
637
00:37:30.704 --> 00:37:32.426
Now I have a standing desk and a walking pad.
638
00:37:32.606 --> 00:37:33.126
Very nice.
639
00:37:34.548 --> 00:37:36.469
But it's not necessarily passion.
640
00:37:36.489 --> 00:37:39.411
It's like, I am passionate about improving this thing.
641
00:37:39.592 --> 00:37:41.293
I am passionate about honing my skills.
642
00:37:41.573 --> 00:37:47.718
And I know, and I've said this with full confidence, and however this is going to get perceived is fine by me.
643
00:37:48.699 --> 00:37:53.363
I know that if Augusta blew up tomorrow, and there was a world where I could not exist at Augusta,
644
00:37:53.703 --> 00:37:59.185
I would be working somewhere tomorrow morning selling something because I've spent four years honing the craft of sales.
645
00:37:59.405 --> 00:38:03.847
Like I would go to the interview and sell them on why they're going to hire me.
646
00:38:04.207 --> 00:38:07.728
It's not even a question because I've built the skills over the last four years.
647
00:38:07.769 --> 00:38:09.909
And that's by no means my master salesperson.
648
00:38:10.229 --> 00:38:16.552
It's just the confidence I've built in myself as a salesperson will now give me the skill set to go and get whatever other job I want.
649
00:38:17.208 --> 00:38:23.535
Speaking of getting a job, so on target earnings, this is something I know you've gone all over with the owners instead of Augusta around general managers.
650
00:38:23.795 --> 00:38:28.059
So this can kind of be for general managers, overhead positions, salespeople, even office managers.
651
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:37.169
But give a kind of a rough overview of how this can be used to attract salespeople, managers, office people, et cetera, around salespeople.
652
00:38:37.369 --> 00:38:44.531
Hey, instead of being like, hey, here's your base and you're going to make bonuses and making it sound all great, but like actually having on target earnings, what does that mean?
653
00:38:44.751 --> 00:38:49.373
OTE and give a quick kind of summary for someone that might be looking for a salesperson.
654
00:38:49.653 --> 00:38:54.655
How do I actually express to them that their comp is 30, 40, 50% and additional bonus?
655
00:38:54.915 --> 00:38:55.115
Yeah.
656
00:38:55.395 --> 00:38:59.996
So it's one of the hardest things to explain to a salesperson in a non-sales world, right?
657
00:39:00.156 --> 00:39:01.417
Home services is sales.
658
00:39:01.477 --> 00:39:05.018
Like you are selling to homeowners your products and services, of course.
659
00:39:05.038 --> 00:39:05.238
Yeah.
660
00:39:05.458 --> 00:39:12.882
But the sales position in the sales world, like when I step out and I talk to other high ticket salespeople, like they're talking about OTE, on target earnings.
661
00:39:13.062 --> 00:39:18.205
And it's like the only way you attract high quality salespeople is you need to show them that, hey, there is a base pay.
662
00:39:18.445 --> 00:39:25.329
But if you hit your targets, if we hit a certain amount of lead volume, if we hit a certain close, if we hit a certain close ratio, you will make X.
663
00:39:25.770 --> 00:39:29.392
And it's that percentage that you're willing to pay them on commission or sales bonuses.
664
00:39:29.412 --> 00:39:29.532
Yeah.
665
00:39:29.992 --> 00:39:34.796
And so I took that theory of, okay, on-target earnings is very important in the sales world.
666
00:39:35.116 --> 00:39:39.179
Why can't we apply that to our owners in Augusta, how they pay general managers and salespeople?
667
00:39:39.640 --> 00:39:44.864
And so building out a framework of what you're comfortable paying a salesperson on base pay, very important.
668
00:39:44.904 --> 00:39:47.006
We need to understand that employees want security.
669
00:39:47.106 --> 00:39:48.507
That's why their employees are not entrepreneurs.
670
00:39:48.867 --> 00:39:49.588
They want a base pay.
671
00:39:50.048 --> 00:39:54.950
But we want the upside to be as high as humanly possible if they're willing to take the risk of not getting that payout.
672
00:39:55.550 --> 00:40:06.993
And so what you need to do is create a system that shows if we hit certain targets, certain amount of lead flow, certain amount or certain close ratio, certain amount of jobs sold, I can pay you X percentage of that.
673
00:40:07.053 --> 00:40:09.474
And this is what on target you will earn.
674
00:40:10.094 --> 00:40:11.294
here at this position.
675
00:40:11.755 --> 00:40:18.096
And so we found that as a really good tool for owners in Augusta to explain distributions to managers, distributions and bonuses to salespeople.
676
00:40:18.516 --> 00:40:30.260
And so I think that's a great tool for business owners if they're trying to do an outside sales hire or even promoting from within is not giving them the ethereal, hey, I'm going to promote you and there's more money on the table.
677
00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:30.520
Right.
678
00:40:30.620 --> 00:40:32.041
And that's what you did with me five years ago.
679
00:40:32.061 --> 00:40:33.081
And there's nothing wrong with that.
680
00:40:33.141 --> 00:40:34.222
We just didn't have the system in place.
681
00:40:34.642 --> 00:40:37.444
And that we had enough relationship capital where I believed you.
682
00:40:37.504 --> 00:40:39.785
I was like, yeah, if Mike says this is a promotion, I'm going to make more.
683
00:40:39.885 --> 00:40:40.165
I will.
684
00:40:41.306 --> 00:40:42.206
We didn't know what that looked like.
685
00:40:42.486 --> 00:40:44.287
Now we can say, hey, I'm going to promote you.
686
00:40:44.627 --> 00:40:45.528
You are going to make more.
687
00:40:46.048 --> 00:40:48.369
And if we hit these targets, here's what you're going to make.
688
00:40:48.409 --> 00:40:49.110
Does that look nice?
689
00:40:49.750 --> 00:40:50.270
Yeah, it does.
690
00:40:50.370 --> 00:40:51.031
I'd like that job.
691
00:40:51.051 --> 00:40:51.491
Okay, great.
692
00:40:51.731 --> 00:40:53.973
Now, here's what happens if those targets are 10% less.
693
00:40:54.413 --> 00:40:56.635
You have direct control of some of these metrics.
694
00:40:56.995 --> 00:40:58.536
So if it's 10% less, here's what you're going to make.
695
00:40:58.636 --> 00:40:58.876
Fair.
696
00:40:59.257 --> 00:41:00.678
If it's 10% more, here's what you're going to make.
697
00:41:00.878 --> 00:41:01.118
Fair.
698
00:41:01.518 --> 00:41:03.880
And so it shows them that risk reward balance of a sales.
699
00:41:04.347 --> 00:41:09.851
If you want to get more leads for your home service business, go check out homeservicewebdesign.com.
700
00:41:10.151 --> 00:41:15.014
The average business that joins home service web design doubles their leads within 12 months.
701
00:41:15.254 --> 00:41:24.661
I think especially when you're doing profit sharing or distributable cash, one of the biggest reasons I say, hey, take a year in profit mode before you go and find this general manager is now I can look at last year's P&L.
702
00:41:25.241 --> 00:41:27.423
Based upon last year's performance.
703
00:41:27.443 --> 00:41:27.583
Yes.
704
00:41:28.003 --> 00:41:31.306
I have really clear OTE if you just did what we did last year.
705
00:41:31.646 --> 00:41:35.569
Oh, and by the way, we're raising prices and we are getting our lead flow is going by 15%.
706
00:41:35.589 --> 00:41:37.070
Here's what we projected to be.
707
00:41:37.290 --> 00:41:40.913
But based upon last year, I have way more confidence in that OTE.
708
00:41:41.153 --> 00:41:44.816
And as an employee, it's not like, oh, you get 25% of profit sharing.
709
00:41:45.157 --> 00:41:45.837
It just boggles my mind.
710
00:41:45.857 --> 00:41:49.260
People are like, yeah, it's 60, 70 grand base, get 25% of profit sharing.
711
00:41:49.740 --> 00:41:52.021
as a team member coming in, they have no idea what that means.
712
00:41:52.041 --> 00:41:52.242
Yeah.
713
00:41:52.642 --> 00:41:57.665
And so if you can show them, hey, based upon last year, if you have your current percentage, here's what you would have made.
714
00:41:58.045 --> 00:42:00.046
Now, if we increase that by temperature, here's what you make.
715
00:42:00.086 --> 00:42:01.447
If you go down, here's what you make.
716
00:42:01.747 --> 00:42:07.831
And having an actual graph, a rubric by which I move the variables and I come up with, oh, I'll be making this amount.
717
00:42:08.111 --> 00:42:09.492
Instead of this completely
718
00:42:10.172 --> 00:42:12.933
like made up and no one has any clarity.
719
00:42:13.173 --> 00:42:25.277
And I think it leads to a lot of GMs quitting is just the lack of matching expectations versus reality as there's six months, 12 months into the job and realizing like, what's this profit sharing thing?
720
00:42:25.357 --> 00:42:26.498
Like there is no profit.
721
00:42:26.658 --> 00:42:29.719
They told me 25% of profit, but this thing is in growth mode and not making any money.
722
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:37.882
And so speak to me a little bit about like the importance of that and having the clear numbers to attract the type of person that's actually gonna stick around.
723
00:42:37.962 --> 00:42:38.182
Mm-hmm.
724
00:42:38.577 --> 00:42:45.222
Yeah, it's extremely important, primarily from a perspective, if you haven't built like trust with these people, like especially if it's a new hire.
725
00:42:45.362 --> 00:42:45.742
Right.
726
00:42:45.882 --> 00:42:46.523
They don't trust you.
727
00:42:46.543 --> 00:42:49.765
And that's what I said five years ago when you said, hey, Lee, I'm going to promote you and you're going to make more.
728
00:42:49.825 --> 00:42:51.326
I just trusted that that was going to happen.
729
00:42:51.926 --> 00:42:55.669
Nowadays, that just doesn't fly, especially if you haven't built a relationship with someone over time.
730
00:42:56.109 --> 00:43:01.390
And so to your point, it is the open book management side of here are the numbers we did last year.
731
00:43:01.610 --> 00:43:03.011
Here were our targets last year.
732
00:43:03.071 --> 00:43:06.492
And here's our actual production based on these numbers.
733
00:43:06.932 --> 00:43:09.332
Here's what you would have made last year.
734
00:43:09.352 --> 00:43:11.013
This year, these are our targets.
735
00:43:11.233 --> 00:43:13.433
If you hit these targets, you will then make this.
736
00:43:13.753 --> 00:43:17.294
So one, it builds trust very quickly from a transparency perspective.
737
00:43:17.634 --> 00:43:20.715
This person is willing to share all of the numbers of their business with me.
738
00:43:21.015 --> 00:43:23.496
That will automatically buy you trust from a salesperson.
739
00:43:23.856 --> 00:43:29.022
Because a lot of salespeople operate on a sell this product for X dollars, you get Y percentage.
740
00:43:29.303 --> 00:43:30.704
That is most salespeople, right?
741
00:43:31.085 --> 00:43:33.287
Product is worth X, you get Y percentage.
742
00:43:33.868 --> 00:43:36.491
Versus here's everything that the business did last year.
743
00:43:36.571 --> 00:43:38.413
Do you like and understand all of these numbers?
744
00:43:38.473 --> 00:43:38.694
Yes.
745
00:43:39.194 --> 00:43:41.335
If you perform at the same level, you will make this.
746
00:43:41.675 --> 00:43:42.656
There's no black box.
747
00:43:42.676 --> 00:43:49.240
There's no like, well, if I sell for X and I get Y, one day can I get Z?
748
00:43:49.640 --> 00:43:53.762
Like there's no like negotiation of like the percentage of commission or the percent of bonus.
749
00:43:54.002 --> 00:43:58.605
It's quite literally, you make this business produce more in terms of profit, you will make more.
750
00:43:58.765 --> 00:43:59.765
That's on target earnings.
751
00:43:59.785 --> 00:44:02.207
That is when we hit certain targets, you will make more money.
752
00:44:02.487 --> 00:44:07.670
And so what it does in a lot of ways, a further way of building trust is it removes a pay ceiling.
753
00:44:07.810 --> 00:44:08.070
Mm-hmm.
754
00:44:08.170 --> 00:44:08.310
Right.
755
00:44:08.330 --> 00:44:14.214
Because if you're willing to pay for a top performing salesperson, like you should not be worried about a ceiling.
756
00:44:15.474 --> 00:44:19.977
If it is tied directly to the targets of performance of the business, you should be willing to pay them whatever.
757
00:44:20.377 --> 00:44:28.342
And that's one of the things that I appreciate with you every kind of year we do our like my contract negotiation is ultimately like there's never been a cap or ceiling put on me.
758
00:44:28.682 --> 00:44:37.327
And that builds trust with with you and I, because I know that you trust if I perform amazingly, you will pay me handsomely for that performance.
759
00:44:37.347 --> 00:44:37.587
Right.
760
00:44:37.687 --> 00:44:42.014
Right now, the floor is there because I'm an employee and I can't take full risk.
761
00:44:42.034 --> 00:44:44.298
I'm not an entrepreneur, but ultimately there's no ceiling.
762
00:44:44.438 --> 00:44:46.922
And that builds trust for me to you as the manager.
763
00:44:47.423 --> 00:44:47.704
Awesome.
764
00:44:48.053 --> 00:44:48.233
Cool.
765
00:44:48.253 --> 00:44:50.615
Well, I want to make sure that we wrap this up.
766
00:44:50.715 --> 00:45:01.363
But if you have any questions down in the comments for Lee, definitely drop those, whether it be estimating, follow-up process, sales systems, high ticket stuff with projects, any questions you have, drop in the comments.
767
00:45:01.403 --> 00:45:02.424
I'm sure we'll get back to them.
768
00:45:02.765 --> 00:45:03.505
I appreciate you coming on.
769
00:45:03.565 --> 00:45:03.785
Yeah.
770
00:45:03.805 --> 00:45:04.966
Can I ask you a question?
771
00:45:04.986 --> 00:45:05.587
Yeah, sure.
772
00:45:05.607 --> 00:45:06.548
This wasn't scripted.
773
00:45:06.848 --> 00:45:08.929
I know you had your questions.
774
00:45:09.170 --> 00:45:12.192
So in terms of like the business owner out there that's listening to this.
775
00:45:13.746 --> 00:45:15.427
you know, they might be struggling with that handoff.
776
00:45:15.728 --> 00:45:16.829
Who do I give sales to?
777
00:45:17.329 --> 00:45:18.410
And I know you struggled with it.
778
00:45:18.711 --> 00:45:28.780
And this isn't a personal question about me, but what traits or what qualities did you see in me or that they should be looking for in order to feel more comfortable with handing that sales position off?
779
00:45:28.995 --> 00:45:31.317
Yeah, like we definitely, you had risen through the ranks.
780
00:45:31.337 --> 00:45:37.122
So like to your point, you had already been in the business and you had built up trust at like mowing grass and then doing projects.
781
00:45:37.162 --> 00:45:39.424
And then like you had done all these things in the business.
782
00:45:39.444 --> 00:45:42.066
And so a track record of trust is super valuable.
783
00:45:42.827 --> 00:45:46.910
Also the ability to see the salesperson be able to learn.
784
00:45:47.290 --> 00:45:54.937
Because the reason we have constant improvement as the number one value of Augusta is because if you can constantly improve, regardless of where you're at in the pecking order to start, you'll eventually get to the top.
785
00:45:55.337 --> 00:45:56.118
It's just a matter of time.
786
00:45:56.639 --> 00:46:08.335
And so you watching videos, podcasts, reading books, and being engaged in the Audible program and stuff like that when we had it, coming to meetings and learning about the numbers of the business, that's a huge indication to me that someone can improve.
787
00:46:08.615 --> 00:46:09.797
If someone can improve, they can win.
788
00:46:09.817 --> 00:46:10.758
It's just a matter of time.
789
00:46:11.278 --> 00:46:19.780
And so having the fact that someone can improve and then they also have this base level of skill that I have to teach because they've been in the business and they know operations and they know admin.
790
00:46:20.160 --> 00:46:21.340
That was super valuable.
791
00:46:21.620 --> 00:46:23.241
And so I think the number one thing is trust.
792
00:46:23.361 --> 00:46:27.522
And I need to trust, number one, that this person looks out for the team and for the business.
793
00:46:27.802 --> 00:46:32.643
And then two, trust that they're going to improve their skills over the course of time and not stay stagnant or decrease.
794
00:46:33.003 --> 00:46:34.123
Because that's like the worst thing ever.
795
00:46:34.583 --> 00:47:00.902
you ever want is like you have to demote or fire someone because they simply lost the passion to get better and you had the fire like i knew you want to make more money i knew you like once you once i knew you're like you're gonna have a kid or be married i was like great he's gonna be all in on money and so it's very easy to be like metrics benchmarks and so i think this is like alex talks about this sometimes like uh when he looked at people that are married they make more money when they have kids they have more money he's like it's increasing deprivation
796
00:47:01.422 --> 00:47:17.070
and so I think every time you got more money it wasn't like oh look I can settle it was okay what can I do make more and I think for a lot of people it's like well they're greedy it's like no that is what you can build on it's so much easier to build on top of versus like we've had other managers where it's like they don't care about money it's like
797
00:47:17.490 --> 00:47:20.471
Well, I guess it's really hard to make your comp plan.
798
00:47:20.971 --> 00:47:21.731
It's like, what do you want me to do?
799
00:47:21.771 --> 00:47:22.411
Pat you on the back?
800
00:47:22.431 --> 00:47:23.271
Well, no, I'm not there.
801
00:47:23.291 --> 00:47:28.612
So like you had very clear metrics for success in your own life.
802
00:47:28.832 --> 00:47:32.633
And especially like once you got married, like you wanted Sarah not to have to work and things like this.
803
00:47:32.993 --> 00:47:37.814
And so I was like, okay, I know that we can align the business's goals with his because he has goals.
804
00:47:38.134 --> 00:47:39.114
It's like, do they have goals?
805
00:47:39.274 --> 00:47:41.294
Are they working towards them and constantly improving?
806
00:47:41.314 --> 00:47:42.595
And then do I have a built level of trust?
807
00:47:42.615 --> 00:47:44.815
If you have those three things, you have a lot to work with.
808
00:47:45.021 --> 00:47:45.181
Yeah.
809
00:47:45.642 --> 00:47:48.024
Can I ask another question?
810
00:47:48.044 --> 00:47:49.365
You booked me for an hour.
811
00:47:50.186 --> 00:47:54.010
So we can cut all of this, by the way, but I'm here.
812
00:47:54.030 --> 00:47:57.013
You put a mic in front of me, you click record, you're getting the full hour.
813
00:47:57.113 --> 00:47:58.314
Okay.
814
00:47:58.755 --> 00:48:05.221
So what are your thoughts on the integrity of someone in their personal life versus in their business life?
815
00:48:05.582 --> 00:48:06.543
Specific to sales.
816
00:48:07.003 --> 00:48:12.089
Because sales, there's a lot of animosity towards salespeople, sales breath, right?
817
00:48:12.109 --> 00:48:14.872
There's so many negative connotations about salespeople out there.
818
00:48:15.313 --> 00:48:20.479
And people like Alex Ramosi and my coach and a bunch of other people, and shout out my coach, Mike Manzi, awesome guy.
819
00:48:22.401 --> 00:48:24.684
They're making a better name for salespeople, for sure.
820
00:48:25.484 --> 00:48:26.645
But how do you take that one?
821
00:48:26.666 --> 00:48:29.728
Like, okay, hypothetically, you brought up a lot of the personal aspects of my life.
822
00:48:29.748 --> 00:48:31.149
You're like, this guy's getting married.
823
00:48:31.189 --> 00:48:31.950
He's motivated.
824
00:48:32.130 --> 00:48:35.954
You know, he and his wife have planned that hopefully she can be a stay at home mom one day.
825
00:48:35.994 --> 00:48:39.657
So like you saw these personal aspects and that's not me saying like those are good traits.
826
00:48:39.717 --> 00:48:41.298
Those are the personal decisions that I have made.
827
00:48:41.458 --> 00:48:42.339
Not saying they're good or bad.
828
00:48:42.519 --> 00:48:43.380
That's how I live my life.
829
00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:43.640
Okay.
830
00:48:43.660 --> 00:48:43.841
Yeah.
831
00:48:44.660 --> 00:48:45.801
You saw those personal traits.
832
00:48:46.041 --> 00:48:48.402
And then you also were like, well, that'll tie to performance.
833
00:48:48.742 --> 00:48:56.086
How do you walk that balance beam of like, maybe personally, this person is on one side of the tracks, but professionally, they're fantastic.
834
00:48:56.446 --> 00:48:56.646
Mm-hmm.
835
00:48:59.322 --> 00:49:00.663
Not trying to put you in hot water.
836
00:49:00.844 --> 00:49:05.188
I think it's mostly a matter of do they want me to win?
837
00:49:05.748 --> 00:49:10.493
So like this is like the gauge that has made it very easy for me is like, will they get me closer to my goals?
838
00:49:11.074 --> 00:49:16.259
And so if if they are willing to help me get closer to my goals, all I want is to be able to return the favor.
839
00:49:16.799 --> 00:49:25.322
And so, especially as someone who worked closer to me in terms of the leadership team, for example, I need to be very acutely aware of what their goals are.
840
00:49:25.342 --> 00:49:31.525
So that way, as they pour more into the business, I'm able to pour more into them on their level, their goals, what they want.
841
00:49:31.685 --> 00:49:34.486
Because they obviously don't want a big business.
842
00:49:34.726 --> 00:49:37.407
They have chosen not to do that when they likely have the skill to do that.
843
00:49:37.907 --> 00:49:41.148
And so I want to make sure that whatever their goals are, I am pouring into them.
844
00:49:41.428 --> 00:49:45.830
Now, if they have things outside of work that are non-integrous, is that what you're saying?
845
00:49:45.910 --> 00:49:46.370
Yeah, yeah.
846
00:49:46.390 --> 00:49:53.192
Like, I don't want to make it too, like, amorphous, but I also don't want it to feel like I'm, like, talking about a specific person or, like, specific types of people.
847
00:49:53.652 --> 00:49:57.253
But it's like, yeah, there is a lack of integrity in their personal life.
848
00:49:57.353 --> 00:49:58.494
That's a great way to describe it.
849
00:49:58.534 --> 00:50:04.395
Now, people can define integrity how they see fit, but, like, very clear history or track record of, like, lack of integrity.
850
00:50:05.155 --> 00:50:06.796
But sales, they're, like, phenomenal.
851
00:50:06.836 --> 00:50:07.816
They're a smooth talker.
852
00:50:07.836 --> 00:50:08.856
They're great with customers.
853
00:50:08.876 --> 00:50:09.697
They close the deal.
854
00:50:09.717 --> 00:50:13.018
Yeah, I think the easy answer is, like, obviously you want someone with integrity.
855
00:50:13.138 --> 00:50:14.178
I think, though, that...
856
00:50:16.483 --> 00:50:19.185
Words like integrity can be defined differently by different people.
857
00:50:19.745 --> 00:50:25.289
And so, and what my preferences are, I don't want that to overshadow someone's performance or them getting their own goals.
858
00:50:25.589 --> 00:50:31.493
Because like I have a different way of how they should live or preferred way that they should think or whatever.
859
00:50:31.953 --> 00:50:34.415
And so I've always been like very clear, here are the business goals.
860
00:50:35.315 --> 00:50:46.085
And if you are going to serve these and those align with things like our cultural values, treating the team correctly, me trusting you, all these things, I could really kind of care less what your goals are.
861
00:50:46.385 --> 00:50:47.126
I just want to support them.
862
00:50:47.246 --> 00:50:47.406
Yeah.
863
00:50:47.646 --> 00:50:53.931
And so there have been times when I have supported people's goals that I might not think are like the best thing for them or whatever.
864
00:50:53.951 --> 00:50:54.052
Yeah.
865
00:50:54.672 --> 00:50:55.113
Who cares?
866
00:50:55.493 --> 00:50:55.994
Yeah.
867
00:50:56.214 --> 00:50:57.035
This is their goals.
868
00:50:57.375 --> 00:50:58.857
And to them, these are big deals.
869
00:50:59.177 --> 00:51:12.573
And if I expect them to treat my business in a way that is a big deal to me, and I think about a lot, I should in turn return the favor regardless of whether I think it's integrous or righteous or the right thing or whatever, I should be supporting their goals.
870
00:51:12.833 --> 00:51:13.834
Now, if they're
871
00:51:14.735 --> 00:51:18.236
Lack of integrity comes in conflict with the values of the business.
872
00:51:18.696 --> 00:51:20.037
Now I have grounds to stand on.
873
00:51:20.577 --> 00:51:30.640
And so that's why I think core values and what you stand for as a team and as a company and as a culture is important because those are the defining factors as to when someone gets cut from the team.
874
00:51:30.680 --> 00:51:32.600
We've always said firing dictates culture.
875
00:51:32.941 --> 00:51:37.702
And so if you ever did something that violated the values of the team, then yes, I fire you.
876
00:51:37.982 --> 00:51:43.125
But whether or not someone's personal preferences, beliefs, thoughts, opinions, that's not really on the table.
877
00:51:43.145 --> 00:51:49.489
But integrity in the form of like lying and stuff like that, I have to know that you're going to treat customers and the team correctly.
878
00:51:49.509 --> 00:51:51.030
So that way I can back you up blindly.
879
00:51:51.430 --> 00:52:01.677
And that's the part where I've always had the line of when it comes to promoting people is I will not promote you unless I can blindly back you up because I know whenever I start digging, your intentions are correct.
880
00:52:02.497 --> 00:52:14.964
And so this is why with the leadership team, I can always, if someone says I'm bad about you guys, I just can always back you guys up blindly because I know when I go back to you, it'll always be supportive of the vision, supportive of the values, supporting the owners.
881
00:52:15.165 --> 00:52:16.746
I never question that.
882
00:52:16.806 --> 00:52:19.747
And because I don't have to question that, I don't have to question your integrity.
883
00:52:19.827 --> 00:52:21.828
It allows us to move faster.
884
00:52:22.329 --> 00:52:26.871
And so I think as long as the team is treated correctly, like integrity is, man, such a great word.
885
00:52:26.891 --> 00:52:29.313
I'm just trying to recycle what that word means in my mind.
886
00:52:29.913 --> 00:52:32.455
But I think overall, obviously we want integrity.
887
00:52:32.855 --> 00:52:36.337
I think if I can trust that you have integrity, I can move faster.
888
00:52:36.857 --> 00:52:39.298
I think when there's a lack of integrity, there becomes a lack of trust.
889
00:52:39.318 --> 00:52:40.819
And when there becomes a lack of trust, I move slower.
890
00:52:41.340 --> 00:52:44.021
And so I think, yes, obviously integrity is important.
891
00:52:44.041 --> 00:52:45.942
That's why we have the leadership team that we do.
892
00:52:46.583 --> 00:52:56.128
But the ability to be able to back up blindly people in your organization, both from the employee to the owner and the owner down, is like where you can actually make leaps and –
893
00:52:56.688 --> 00:53:14.112
balance forward and knowing that sometimes people will make mistakes but you still back back them up blindly because you know their intentions are correct and then intentions is a derivative of integrity yeah and so i think that's where i think as long as i know someone's intentions i can almost integrity is like very close i have to look at those words that's good i like that yeah no and i think
894
00:53:14.352 --> 00:53:16.834
Kind of the way I was looking at it from a sales perspective, I think it's really good.
895
00:53:16.854 --> 00:53:20.337
It's like intentions will show in level of integrity, I think in a way.
896
00:53:21.318 --> 00:53:25.702
Because when you look at sales, there's like the three things that a customer needs to have to buy from you.
897
00:53:25.842 --> 00:53:28.284
They need to like you, they need to know you, and they need to trust you.
898
00:53:28.564 --> 00:53:30.746
And I think trust directly relies to integrity.
899
00:53:31.106 --> 00:53:35.630
Like you will not trust someone that you do not think has integrity.
900
00:53:35.730 --> 00:53:35.950
Mm-hmm.
901
00:53:36.090 --> 00:53:41.752
If you think there's no integrity there, I don't trust them automatically because their intentions, to your point, are misaligned with mine.
902
00:53:42.313 --> 00:53:49.655
And so that's where, from a sales perspective, I think integrity is even of a higher importance in a lot of ways because customers need to trust you.
903
00:53:50.016 --> 00:53:50.196
Right.
904
00:53:50.256 --> 00:53:55.918
And that's where when salespeople have integrity, they can look a customer dead in the eye and say, this is the best decision for you.
905
00:53:56.540 --> 00:54:03.911
And once an owner is out of the daily operations, I think having that trust of your salesperson is important because you will get bad reviews.
906
00:54:04.011 --> 00:54:08.538
You'll meet someone in the supermarket and there was an old customer and they're like, I don't really like that Lee guy.
907
00:54:09.059 --> 00:54:11.262
And if you don't have that full confidence,
908
00:54:11.502 --> 00:54:13.143
you get questioned right away.
909
00:54:13.464 --> 00:54:19.948
And this is like, I have this massive gift that I've been blessed with that the leadership team, I can blindly back up every single time.
910
00:54:20.209 --> 00:54:22.911
And they might be wrong, but I know their intentions were correct.
911
00:54:23.291 --> 00:54:24.532
And I know that they weren't trying to be malicious.
912
00:54:24.552 --> 00:54:25.633
They weren't trying to hurt anyone.
913
00:54:25.873 --> 00:54:29.095
And when it comes to sales, I have to know that that salesperson cares about the customer.
914
00:54:29.255 --> 00:54:30.156
They care about humanity.
915
00:54:30.276 --> 00:54:31.337
They care about doing the right thing.
916
00:54:31.537 --> 00:54:34.339
They care about making sure that their track record is one of honesty.
917
00:54:34.660 --> 00:54:37.762
Because if I know that, I can back them up without even talking to them.
918
00:54:38.082 --> 00:54:39.282
And that's like a huge gift.
919
00:54:39.302 --> 00:54:43.984
And if you don't have that, it is very difficult to grow and not have that trust.
920
00:54:44.184 --> 00:54:45.264
Okay, last thing.
921
00:54:45.745 --> 00:54:46.165
Last thing.
922
00:54:46.265 --> 00:54:49.006
I promise I'll be done after this.
923
00:54:49.066 --> 00:54:52.047
Because there isn't enough of this on the internet.
924
00:54:52.107 --> 00:54:53.647
Let's each give one sales tip.
925
00:54:53.767 --> 00:54:54.608
Okay, sales tip.
926
00:54:54.628 --> 00:54:55.648
Let's give a sales tip.
927
00:54:55.668 --> 00:54:56.828
Okay, go ahead.
928
00:54:57.028 --> 00:54:57.489
I got mine.
929
00:54:57.509 --> 00:54:58.289
This is my default.
930
00:54:58.629 --> 00:55:00.350
Is that non-financial advice?
931
00:55:00.910 --> 00:55:02.650
If somebody's like, hey, I need a sales tip.
932
00:55:02.670 --> 00:55:03.891
This is like my default.
933
00:55:04.751 --> 00:55:07.472
If you're not sure, agree and ask.
934
00:55:08.969 --> 00:55:09.930
AA, agree and ask.
935
00:55:10.230 --> 00:55:14.014
So if you're not sure what a customer is saying, it's like, yep, totally, 100%.
936
00:55:14.074 --> 00:55:14.675
I agree with you.
937
00:55:14.755 --> 00:55:16.196
And then follow up with a question.
938
00:55:16.576 --> 00:55:18.358
If you do that, you'll get more information from them.
939
00:55:18.638 --> 00:55:25.725
And so if you're ever just like stuck in a bind, you're on a follow-up call, you're meeting with a customer in person, you're like, man, that's an intense objection they just gave me.
940
00:55:25.745 --> 00:55:27.166
Or man, I don't really understand what they said.
941
00:55:27.467 --> 00:55:28.508
Totally, 100%.
942
00:55:28.848 --> 00:55:31.751
So when you said that, and then you just ask a question.
943
00:55:31.851 --> 00:55:32.812
So that's like my default.
944
00:55:32.892 --> 00:55:33.753
Agree, ask.
945
00:55:34.273 --> 00:55:35.314
Yeah, my sales tip.
946
00:55:35.614 --> 00:55:37.056
Okay, I'll go more strategic.
947
00:55:37.076 --> 00:55:40.419
So I would say on follow-up phone calls, reserving their spot.
948
00:55:40.679 --> 00:55:44.703
Because once they have that taste of it in their hand, hey, we can solve this problem for you next Tuesday.
949
00:55:45.044 --> 00:55:47.826
I'll go ahead and reserve your spot and I'll call you back tomorrow to confirm.
950
00:55:48.147 --> 00:55:52.651
It always keeps the door open to you keeping in control of the sales process.
951
00:55:52.671 --> 00:55:53.952
Because the biggest thing that people do
952
00:55:54.813 --> 00:55:55.694
as they follow up.
953
00:55:56.054 --> 00:56:00.117
And then once the customer says, no, I appreciate it, but we'll contact you if we have questions.
954
00:56:00.377 --> 00:56:01.678
As soon as they say that, it's done.
955
00:56:01.838 --> 00:56:03.759
I want us to in control of the sales process.
956
00:56:04.179 --> 00:56:06.841
And to do that, I can just say, hey, I know you're thinking about it.
957
00:56:06.861 --> 00:56:09.503
I know you're talking to your spouse and I got to get three other estimates, whatever.
958
00:56:10.630 --> 00:56:15.696
I'm going to go ahead and reserve your spot for next Thursday because we're booking out really far, and I'll call you back tomorrow and we can confirm it.
959
00:56:15.736 --> 00:56:19.340
So keeping the door open and staying in control of the sales process.
960
00:56:19.821 --> 00:56:23.105
One step more aggressive than reserving the spot is the A, B close.
961
00:56:23.405 --> 00:56:24.787
Hey, does Tuesday or Thursday work?
962
00:56:24.827 --> 00:56:25.207
Yeah, exactly.
963
00:56:25.228 --> 00:56:25.508
Exactly.
964
00:56:25.768 --> 00:56:26.428
I also like that one.
965
00:56:26.448 --> 00:56:30.209
If you're like, this person is 99% there, it's like, does Tuesday or Thursday work?
966
00:56:30.609 --> 00:56:36.571
And to anyone out there that may be interested in joining Augusta, it's like, hey, does the February training work or does the March training work?
967
00:56:37.111 --> 00:56:38.932
It's just like, which one are you coming to at that point?
968
00:56:38.952 --> 00:56:40.812
But anyways, I appreciate you having me on.
969
00:56:40.832 --> 00:56:41.412
Thanks for letting me share.
970
00:56:41.432 --> 00:56:43.253
Hopefully it was valuable for everyone out there.
971
00:56:43.313 --> 00:56:43.893
Thanks, dude.