A Deep Dive On Ski Bindings - Phil Pugliese and Tom Gellie

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[SPEAKER_01]: Today we are going to be talking about ski bindings.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So these things that we all trust hold our boots to our skis and release at the right time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So we put a whole lot of faith in them and I realized I really don't know that much about binding.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to learn a whole lot more.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I went and had a chat with Phil from Skitalk.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now Phil is a great authority on this because he has reviewed skis back from when they were this sort of straight shape to the modern ones now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He's unbiased, doesn't work for one of the brands.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He just tests the whole variety of the whole range.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He's actually helped give feedback on findings over the years to keep him evolving and moving forward.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So Phil gives us some great insights around design of findings, changes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The effects that they have on performance and the feel you get from the snow, because they're a big part of how we connect to the ski through the boots next to the next part.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I learned a bunch of cool things about the
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[SPEAKER_01]: Elasticity, that's what it's called, you'll find out about elasticity in a binding and how that actually affects the feel and safety of a binding differences between race and recreational bindings where you should put your like, do you need a hiding binding like should you really be cranking your dins right up?
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[SPEAKER_01]: a whole bunch of stuff.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Really interesting, I want to make a disclaimer here that this is just a chat, this is not advice.
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[SPEAKER_01]: None of this, we take no responsibility, feel a knife for what you do with this information, but I think it's really cool information for those of us out there like me and Phil that just live and breathe skiing, shout about it at the bars, chat about it with friends.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, so I really hope you enjoy this next episode of The Big Pitches skiing podcast
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[SPEAKER_01]: Phil, I'm really interested in today's conversation.
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[SPEAKER_01]: My hope is to get some insight into the history of ski bindings from you, because you've been testing, skis and bindings for a long time, I want to cover some safety things, so people with bindings where they're old on you, have grip walk, sols, have worn out
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[SPEAKER_01]: as well as things about rampangle so that the felt sense of balance and performance that you get from from different binding.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So lots to get into where I'd like to begin is I guess the evolution, because when you first started testing skis, what were bindings like back then?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Tom, I'm not that old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We weren't dealing with bear trap lines.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We weren't dealing with love of farms.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we've been working with this century.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Let's stay when that range there.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But I've been a binding geek for probably 50, 50 plus years.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to, we're going to have a wrap-and-hole today.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And I think we're going to have fun.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to get in the weeds.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to be bouncing off of different stuff.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But let's start in the modern era of violence.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And that started around late 1970s.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And that is when we started seeing thin standards in bindings.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Where the bindings went from one to three, and maybe an R or an S setting,
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[SPEAKER_03]: to a full scale, and there's something we're going to circle back on this later on.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It reminded me to do that, but the most part really have not changed in the evolution of time.
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[SPEAKER_03]: The simplicity is what really has been functioning the best of the bodies.
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[SPEAKER_03]: If you take a look at a look
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[SPEAKER_03]: pivot, that really hasn't changed in 1960s, single pivot toe, the turn table heel, and we've got a couple of examples here that that Barney really changed and has a loyal following, and both in performance and in perceived safety.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So we'll talk about that, we'll talk about my evolution and findings, and let's talk about as far as findings basically have two functions to hold you in
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[SPEAKER_03]: so you want to hold you in when you want to be healthy and you want to release when you want to get released.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So it's pretty simple in that way and what it comes down to, whatever brand of body that you're working with is what you have confidence in that working for you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So go into that a little bit further.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's say you're, I can maybe understand that from my perspective, skiing for a while and on some different brands, how would you phrase that for someone who's maybe their second or third season in?
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[SPEAKER_03]: on that beginner skier, they're not going to think of that one.
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[SPEAKER_03]: They're probably leaning more towards that release than retention.
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[SPEAKER_03]: If they fall, they want that to come out.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's at high level experts here that might be skiing in adverse conditions and adverse terrain that are concerned about retention over least being in a no fall zone.
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[SPEAKER_03]: The average consumer, and I'm talking
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[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe I'd say the lower the lower third of the consumer coming into the sport just want to Bonnie that's going to be simple and easy.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And they look at bindings and quite frankly, industry has worked this way that the bindings become a commodity.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And where we've actually made some changes ourselves work with manufacturers is making that higher level binding more
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[SPEAKER_03]: for skiers that might not need that higher spring tension rate, but want that higher performance of that finding.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, all right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is a great area to get into.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, retention on one end, keeping your boot connected with the ski.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other end is release.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it is quite a design challenge engineering challenge to balance that out.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So like I guess maybe where's a good question that I would ask is I was wanted like do I need do I need a stronger binding if my bind if my din setting I usually scan about eight and a half on nine I don't usually go above that should I should be choosing a binding that puts me in the middle of that
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess that's thinking about release.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then how do I think about retention as well of binding's better retaining?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Or is it just about cranking it up more?
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[SPEAKER_03]: And that's a really good question.
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[SPEAKER_03]: That's a question that comes up a lot.
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[SPEAKER_03]: If you're a seven or an eight, do I want to be in the middle of that window range?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Manufacture in that range.
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[SPEAKER_03]: If there was a number on that window, the bindings hit a function properly at that number.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_03]: If you put on an ASTM machine and tested, it should torque properly within that range.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Now, that's reality.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Now, in practice.
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[SPEAKER_03]: How is, sorry, in perception, if you've got a spring that's compacted down and at that higher that it didn't range, you've got the less ability of that spring to adjust.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Where if you're in that middle range,
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[SPEAKER_03]: to expand and contract.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So even though it will perform at the extremity, ideally, preferably you want to be in the middle of the range.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so okay, that's a good way to put it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, it will release.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I could get a binding that only goes up to 10 and I could be fine skiing it on 9, but if I get a binding where I'm more that 9 number for me is in the middle of say 4 and 14 or 6 and 14 or something.
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[SPEAKER_01]: that spring to get it to nine isn't compact as much.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so then maybe, I don't know if we're jumping or ready around here, I know there's something about float and that that's important in a binding is that then gonna give you this more sort of, you know, where your foot can kind of move a little bit before it releases, am I?
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[SPEAKER_03]: I think the question I think you're asking is elasticity.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, and that's what, again, the Binds about confidence, if you look at the World Cup, what is the most popular binding on the World Cup and the variation of it, it is that marker race binding.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And then, and the Thomas and Solomon just basically mimicked that finding with new binding.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Look, it's coming out that I've been running down the road, and that's going to be coming down there.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But a racer wants to be over the center of the ski, and they have a minimal amount of elasticity down to about three millimeters of lateral elasticity because they want to be just over the center of that ski.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Now, if you take a look at a binding and I've got one here, even going back to this guy, which is the Solomon driver toe, single pivot here, long gated wings here, a ton of elasticity in that toe.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_03]: what I find with that finding is that you have more room for error where I can run this finding at a lower setting and still have some absorption there before releases.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So that racer isn't concerned about that slow twisty fall as they consume or as a recreational ski, I am.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I'm concerned about getting knocked over to lifeline.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I'm concerned being on a green trail and taking out from behind.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And that's slow, slow, and that's where a binding against balance of retention and release.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Findings, and I've said, this are dumb.
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[SPEAKER_03]: They only know the amount of force that's put into them.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Whether it be lateral here, upper compensation, depending on the body, and upper and out of the heel.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So if it's a minimum out of force and that's a slow torque fall, more elasticity for me is more confidence.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Now obviously, have different ways.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And you have to think in your mind what's important to you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, okay, that really helps now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So we've got this term a last density in the finding which is yeah, how it's sort of freedom and play before it really does release like a bit of almost the booze on its way out.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then it doesn't release it sort of comes back in because you didn't have the fall does that so there's my question does the spring have anything to do with that or is it more the design okay so doesn't matter why winding it in to that nine setting and it's halfway between the two edges of the window of like six and 14 or something right that's not going to affect elasticity it is you're in the line
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[SPEAKER_01]: okay okay so that's that's definitely a choice consumers would want to think about is like you said to give them confidence if you're the always maybe skiing in the trees and you like going early season and you're not sure if there's a twigs and stuff under there an elastic kind of binding could be a little bit safer if you're not going super fast through there is
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[SPEAKER_03]: can be, again, we're, we're in a really great area.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And we watch how we say this.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But again, it's about the confidence that you have in that.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And that's where scares me that you've got people setting the binds at 10, 14, whatever, and they're beating their chest and the dragging their knuckles, they've got the actual cranium, and they think it's their right of passage.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But it says slow twisting fall that they're not going to release.
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[SPEAKER_03]: That finding doesn't know.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, all right from here now wondering because this elasticity thing that's I've never really thought about that before.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Does it affect your performance then like for someone like me if I get in a a binding and I set maybe the dinner a little bit lower because I'm skiing at Parasher.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's very busy and I'm aware that people could be taken me out in the lifeline or from behind.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Am I then when I go and ski the black run that's quite firm and do some carbs turns?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Am I going to notice the performance is lacking?
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[SPEAKER_03]: No, I think actually you might have able to pick up some performance.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And this is where I talk about that elasticity and we're going to take a little side to each other here and when we talk about getting your binding set, there's three settings, a one, two, and three.
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[SPEAKER_03]: There's an assumption that is beginner intermediate expert and that's not the case it has to do with retention aggressiveness and are you lean more towards release and retention or retention and release.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do so people know.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I feel he's talking exactly here when you go to the Randall shop or you go online and you type in in release and write you and you're a class and one of the things you have to do is you have to classify yourself as a one, two or three skier and is there plus as well?
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[SPEAKER_03]: There is a three plus and I mean that that's the guy that doesn't want that finally coming off.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay, okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I'll mention you back to it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So that is got to do not necessarily with how skilled you are.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'll let you take care of it.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, yes, yes, and no, my feeling Tom, you could probably ski a bunny at a four or five and not come out because you're so smooth over that ski, you're centered, you're pressured downward.
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[SPEAKER_03]: You don't have a ton of different torque values in that finding.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And you could probably ski that finding lower.
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[SPEAKER_03]: The better in my opinion, the better smoothest you are, the lower you keep the fun set.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I would agree with that, because yeah, I've not really had many releases.
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[SPEAKER_01]: even when I'm thought it might.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't crash, but yeah, and I think it's maybe that's a bit to do with telemark to where you have to be trying to stand, standard you're getting no heel locked down support.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're absolutely right that.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's all factors that come in to become a better skier and having more tools in your seabox and you'd better balance.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay, so in my head, I'm just thinking now, I don't need to when I go and see my buddies in Austria who may be formerly raised on your open cup and they're like, I'm on 11, 12.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to feel like an idiot or like a lesser skier, if I'm happy on 7 or 8.
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[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, it could be in my favor because then if I do have these slower falls, it's going to more likely come out.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's, I feel better already with this conversation.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and luckily you've had very few pre-releases in your career.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, yep.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I can't even, I don't think that'd be less of them on, on one hand.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, with the thousands of days.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And we can think about that situation very well.
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[SPEAKER_03]: That body should have worked.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes, okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So now where do we go?
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[SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about,
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[SPEAKER_00]: We're still on the last distance.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's the city, okay.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And that's an absorption.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And that's where I'm going to bring in, and we talked about the bounce of safety and such in manufacturers.
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[SPEAKER_03]: They really try to avoid the word safety because it can pitch and hold them.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But the one binding that comes into play with this, and I know you've worked with variations of it, it's, sorry, it's the Tyrolia protector binding.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And what that is, and we talked about you last to sitting in the toe and the way the binding releases and bindings were designed to release forward out of the heel.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Tyroidwood came out this protector two, three years ago, it is the first finding that has a bilateral lease out of the heel.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And here's the inset that you can see as far as how that finding is coming out as far as lateral pressure.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And in the heel, it has about seven millimeters of lateral travel on the either side before it releases laterally.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
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[SPEAKER_03]: for a better skier is that is the absorption, especially in firmer conditions, is that ski is quieter because that absorbs in the heel.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
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[SPEAKER_03]: That's key smoother.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So could you almost think of it a little bit like mountain.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's adding a little bit of mountain bike like suspension to the right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, obviously not in this vertical plane, but it's level.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the lateral plane.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why you're saying I may actually notice an increase in performance because some of that juttering is negated because there's a bit of this elastic, elastic play.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So that's what we're getting through nuances of a body and we're a better skier is going to feel some of these nuances.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, okay, okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So elasticity.
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[SPEAKER_01]: How much play there is in a binding?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Generally races do not want this because they want precision and they want every input into there.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so they're a binding designs that are like that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Was there, do you remember, was that Solomon on the first time you'd really try to binding that had this, like greater,
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[SPEAKER_03]: where the evolution started with me and then I got the bindies here also.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going back to the late 1970s early 1980s, growing up in the Pocano's and like all of us kids, we thought we were better than we were.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I was whopping 145 pounds and a regular Solomon, 727 would be enough, I needed to be a cheap.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And this is the first of what I introduced the modern bindings, taking the look pivot out which has some different aspects, but this was the first binding to integrate upward compensation in a tau.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And what that meant was in a real, a twisting fall,
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[SPEAKER_03]: lateral pressure turned to the upward and lateral diagonal pressure and allowed that body to release this way.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember it, I was skiing down asked at Pogna and I went to a mogul backwards on my 204 pre.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I was sorry it was a 185.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Ross and you'll stick up the pre was later on.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So, but I went to a backwards in that rear twisting fall allowed that finally to release upward out of the toe.
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[SPEAKER_03]: First time I've ever experienced that, finds we're really designed up to that point to work in a forward twisting fall.
19:29.705 --> 19:36.200
[SPEAKER_03]: real quick, really didn't come into the play as they do now and that's where we're talking a lot about that.
19:36.641 --> 19:39.287
[SPEAKER_03]: But this finding here worked very well.
19:39.868 --> 19:43.917
[SPEAKER_03]: The next evolution of that finding was the 747.
19:44.673 --> 19:55.837
[SPEAKER_03]: which I do have one here and with with this finding here, very similar in design of this, but if you notice these wings are not that long.
19:56.438 --> 20:00.307
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, this is where I lost elasticity in that.
20:01.008 --> 20:04.656
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was up at Killing Tins, King Conclusion, and
20:05.108 --> 20:09.278
[SPEAKER_03]: I was in a fall and I didn't the binder release and I didn't feel as should have released.
20:09.879 --> 20:15.793
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is where I lost the confidence at Tom, sorry, sorry, Solomon, at that point.
20:15.993 --> 20:24.665
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and so simply put the one of the design changes you, yeah, you lost that elasticity and and you could actually see it in the wing.
20:25.306 --> 20:27.970
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, just narrowing that change the right.
20:28.470 --> 20:31.635
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's where I actually switch over to a market at point.
20:31.715 --> 20:35.621
[SPEAKER_03]: I went to the MRR, the roadmap that's short amount distance.
20:36.141 --> 20:40.988
[SPEAKER_03]: Then when I came back to Solomon in 1989.
20:40.968 --> 20:48.801
[SPEAKER_03]: when they came out with the 1957 and you can see the difference in how long these wings are.
20:49.203 --> 20:53.007
[SPEAKER_03]: in that creating more elasticity in that toe.
20:53.768 --> 20:58.493
[SPEAKER_03]: And the other thing that was unique with this binding is, again, getting it to over the weeds.
20:58.513 --> 21:05.161
[SPEAKER_03]: But the way that these wings work is that they hold on top of the love and not the end of the love.
21:05.601 --> 21:09.185
[SPEAKER_03]: So what it does, it gave a little cleaner release pattern.
21:09.806 --> 21:12.249
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was a little bit smoother in that release.
21:13.069 --> 21:14.451
[SPEAKER_03]: If you had an arm,
21:14.431 --> 21:15.772
[SPEAKER_03]: to plug out our site.
21:15.832 --> 21:21.317
[SPEAKER_03]: We have got a video with Jim Shaftar with the whole history of the Solomon Binings for that.
21:21.998 --> 21:26.221
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I will leave a link in there for people that yeah, really want to get in.
21:26.341 --> 21:29.484
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's a tonic rate information there.
21:30.225 --> 21:31.366
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay.
21:32.647 --> 21:43.476
[SPEAKER_01]: What came to mind then when you sort of talked about that backwards fall and then also when you had a, you tried the new,
21:43.608 --> 21:51.876
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we should discuss the types of falls that tend to be the most traumatic would that be fair to say?
21:51.936 --> 21:55.679
[SPEAKER_03]: Well again, bindings are dumb.
21:56.040 --> 21:57.761
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't need the amount of force that's put into them.
21:58.162 --> 22:04.928
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you've got a downward pressure and that heel and a little bit on the toe, the binding doesn't know that.
22:05.249 --> 22:06.990
[SPEAKER_03]: It cannot sense that downward pressure.
22:07.651 --> 22:11.995
[SPEAKER_03]: So you need to combine force for that to be able to release.
22:12.717 --> 22:29.848
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay, but would you say, I guess what I'm asking is, you know, most of the most common problem is an ACL tear in skin, which tends come from a rearward twisting fall rearward twisting and a look yeah and a lot of it has to do with the modern ski.
22:30.385 --> 22:49.258
[SPEAKER_03]: Because of that flare in that tail, that that tail doesn't allow the scrub out, it gets lofted in, so the pressure is backwards, and all that torque is underneath, and on the ligaments, and bunnings design to protect bone, not ligaments.
22:50.360 --> 22:54.587
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's when the protector comes in, allowing natural, at least, louder than we have in the heel.
22:55.276 --> 23:24.760
[SPEAKER_01]: okay okay and then did have you ever had times where like when someone it doesn't release forward say they hit i don't maybe it's an object just hidden under the snow is that that's when that the the heel should release and you should come out forwards is that typically when that doesn't happen people would might break a bone against the
23:25.060 --> 23:26.445
[SPEAKER_03]: not as common as it used to be.
23:26.746 --> 23:34.874
[SPEAKER_03]: And we have to remember the forces that are required, the heel release is four times the amount of force than the latter along the toe.
23:35.416 --> 23:35.818
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow.
23:36.962 --> 23:37.062
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
23:37.413 --> 23:42.161
[SPEAKER_01]: That's got a lot more retention holding that the deal down than it is this way.
23:42.843 --> 24:02.577
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's where some of the heels different designs have different amounts of elasticity in it, a two-stage heel, like the solanins that we have here, and the race findings have less elasticity when you get into a look pivot that has more elasticity in that heel before that releases.
24:02.607 --> 24:06.031
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so if I'm now thinking I'm I'm okay, we're back.
24:06.051 --> 24:32.378
[SPEAKER_01]: We're in the modern age right now and I'm thinking about selecting a binding Sometimes I don't really get the choice because it's integrated into the into the system But I guess really is there much difference that they all pretty good or that are then nuances in terms of where the maybe say the toe Release pivot sort of
24:32.476 --> 24:39.786
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of questions coming on my mind like where the spring is located like can it can be it can be kind of forwards or sideways is that correct?
24:40.728 --> 24:43.932
[SPEAKER_03]: We got a longitudinal spring and a lateral spring, okay?
24:44.393 --> 25:02.398
[SPEAKER_03]: As far as our two designs here, longitudinal here and again, I'm going to use some of these all the ones because quite frankly, they haven't changed that much, but we've got a longitudinal spring here, lateral spring here.
25:02.750 --> 25:12.567
[SPEAKER_03]: and keep you over the center of the ski, not as much elasticity, the longitudinal springs tend to have a little more elasticity, a little bit slower or a tertiary center.
25:14.069 --> 25:20.641
[SPEAKER_03]: And you'll be able to run, again, my feeling, my opinion, put this claimer in there.
25:21.262 --> 25:27.272
[SPEAKER_03]: I have more confidence with a longitudinal master's string because I like to be able to run it lower and smoother.
25:27.674 --> 25:37.282
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, interesting, and I guess that yeah, so the either the spring is lined up more in the same direction as the kind of the talk is releasing the toe.
25:37.923 --> 25:45.049
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, or it's lined up this way and So then those longitudinal ones like that Solomon binding.
25:45.129 --> 25:57.580
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep And is that the terralia like the terralia now is well, Terralia is too If you look at the race findings and the PRDs and What they're using on the workup is the longitudinal spring
25:58.015 --> 26:20.952
[SPEAKER_03]: the the protector is a lateral spring where some of these lateral spring started coming into popularities when we got into frame bindings where they're allowing that whole binding frame to lean up and that longitudinal spring was too further forward okay changing that hinge points so they went with a lateral spring like with the warden and the grip in and and those those the royal bindings
26:21.556 --> 26:26.486
[SPEAKER_03]: then that allowed that to twist up in the walkie.
26:26.686 --> 26:28.890
[SPEAKER_03]: But we've pretty much gone away from frame bindings.
26:30.273 --> 26:31.074
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it's error.
26:31.656 --> 26:33.078
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, okay, okay.
26:33.539 --> 26:36.866
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess the one question this, I'll grab my ski gear.
26:37.086 --> 26:37.367
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
26:39.150 --> 26:39.851
[SPEAKER_01]: This finding.
26:42.717 --> 26:44.340
[SPEAKER_01]: This Tyrolia.
26:44.557 --> 26:46.843
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got this diagonal, yeah.
26:46.863 --> 26:49.912
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that this is different from the protector.
26:50.072 --> 26:50.894
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I correct?
26:51.275 --> 26:57.492
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so I try to, I try to, I try to, I try to protect a once on a pair of skis just last month.
26:58.034 --> 26:59.899
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was quite, there was like,
27:00.335 --> 27:03.679
[SPEAKER_01]: There was, I was like, oh, I have to adjust another point.
27:03.739 --> 27:06.502
[SPEAKER_01]: I've only ever had to really go like forward pressure.
27:06.602 --> 27:12.027
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, and then the protector, there was another screw on the side here.
27:12.067 --> 27:17.053
[SPEAKER_01]: So first, what's going on, why has this got a little diagonal thing going on?
27:17.613 --> 27:20.937
[SPEAKER_03]: The diagonal release came out in the early 1970s.
27:21.277 --> 27:25.802
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, memory referred to most of the falls back then were forward twisty falls.
27:25.917 --> 27:32.545
[SPEAKER_03]: And what that diagonal releases allow that food to come out a little bit smoother out of the heel.
27:33.146 --> 27:40.936
[SPEAKER_03]: Now the diagonal aspect of that really did not come into play until the binding will order released the book.
27:40.976 --> 27:41.537
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
27:41.557 --> 27:47.925
[SPEAKER_03]: And I really wish I had to throw you 360 here for another point, but yeah, that that really becomes a play.
27:47.945 --> 27:49.427
[SPEAKER_03]: They still use it today.
27:50.217 --> 27:58.048
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, your question regarding the other aspect of the Protective Bonnie and that adjustment here.
27:59.290 --> 28:11.007
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, when we set a finding for our release, that the total release of the Hill is that it's under what they produce an ISO restriction and that's where those numbers are set.
28:11.348 --> 28:16.495
[SPEAKER_03]: The lateral release on the Hill, there is no standardization in that.
28:17.217 --> 28:20.984
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, but they want you to ideally set that up.
28:21.284 --> 28:26.414
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're in eight, they want you an eight on the lateral for point of reference.
28:26.434 --> 28:27.616
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, now if you go.
28:28.137 --> 28:28.818
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got an order.
28:28.838 --> 28:33.346
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to pause you this there because I think that's that's really important.
28:33.366 --> 28:39.698
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you just repeat what that there's no actual standard for figuring out the
28:40.673 --> 28:41.194
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
28:41.714 --> 28:55.373
[SPEAKER_03]: Laterally, even the first lateral lease heel finding which was the knee binding had, it was only a lateral lease out of one side on the middle, on the lateral side of the heel and yet a little left and the right specific.
28:56.995 --> 29:02.763
[SPEAKER_03]: But with this here on the lateral on this here, they've got these for a point of reference on it.
29:03.264 --> 29:03.644
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
29:04.525 --> 29:10.073
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, now with that said, and again, I go against what,
29:10.357 --> 29:16.006
[SPEAKER_03]: Tyrolya says about this, I do not set my lateral leads to match my heel.
29:17.348 --> 29:20.373
[SPEAKER_03]: I look on the lowest setting, which is a four.
29:21.475 --> 29:22.697
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
29:22.717 --> 29:26.022
[SPEAKER_03]: And because I want that in a real twisty fall, I want to come out.
29:26.442 --> 29:27.664
[SPEAKER_01]: You want it, yes, you want it off.
29:28.085 --> 29:28.686
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
29:28.936 --> 29:38.288
[SPEAKER_03]: And I've skated in a bombsite, skated down the face of Dave's run a mammoth, I've skated all over the place on the floor.
29:38.608 --> 29:40.470
[SPEAKER_03]: I've yet to pre-release out of it.
29:41.412 --> 29:47.579
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and have you had some releases where you thought that was, did it release nicely at low speeds?
29:47.860 --> 29:49.181
[SPEAKER_01]: Or you've had a lot of crashes yet?
29:49.442 --> 29:50.623
[SPEAKER_03]: It hasn't released on me yet.
29:50.958 --> 29:54.743
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, but it is also like fire and shirts in my house.
29:55.344 --> 29:56.265
[SPEAKER_03]: I haven't used it.
29:56.666 --> 29:57.587
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to cancel it.
30:00.090 --> 30:00.891
[SPEAKER_00]: I know what you mean.
30:01.412 --> 30:02.173
[SPEAKER_00]: I know what you mean.
30:02.213 --> 30:04.736
[SPEAKER_00]: It's only useful until it but data.
30:04.756 --> 30:06.639
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, it's cheap insurance.
30:07.220 --> 30:12.907
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, everybody's deductibles have a comma in it and some two juts left of the comma.
30:12.927 --> 30:16.852
[SPEAKER_03]: For the extra hundred bucks in this finding, it's no greater to me.
30:16.872 --> 30:18.895
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, interesting.
30:19.396 --> 30:19.716
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
30:21.181 --> 30:23.163
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and he thought somewhere we go next.
30:23.303 --> 30:24.424
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to I kind of want it.
30:25.305 --> 30:27.368
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I'll ask a little bit about you.
30:27.388 --> 30:28.008
[SPEAKER_03]: You touched on.
30:28.228 --> 30:28.449
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
30:29.250 --> 30:33.134
[SPEAKER_03]: The performance aspects of a body and how that changes characteristics.
30:33.274 --> 30:33.674
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
30:34.175 --> 30:34.956
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go there.
30:35.156 --> 30:35.696
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go there.
30:35.716 --> 30:35.816
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
30:36.657 --> 30:37.118
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's get it.
30:37.158 --> 30:40.361
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get me out of my freaking out about my knee going on.
30:40.381 --> 30:42.043
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get back into the into the internet.
30:42.063 --> 30:42.303
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
30:42.443 --> 30:43.625
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to make some fun turns.
30:44.185 --> 30:44.406
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
30:44.566 --> 30:48.690
[SPEAKER_03]: And then this is where.
30:49.278 --> 30:52.262
[SPEAKER_03]: and there's really nothing right at all.
30:52.342 --> 30:57.870
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember we were on a conference called two weeks ago with one of the manufacturers.
30:58.110 --> 31:03.698
[SPEAKER_03]: And we started talking about stack height of the binding where there's a coming up the new binding, that's much lower on the ski.
31:04.920 --> 31:06.983
[SPEAKER_03]: And excuse me.
31:08.060 --> 31:12.085
[SPEAKER_03]: And the subject of race, he's came up that we're stacking really high.
31:12.105 --> 31:16.730
[SPEAKER_03]: And this regulations have a maximum that we're allowed to do.
31:17.651 --> 31:29.906
[SPEAKER_03]: And they went into is when Stenmark and Mayor and Phil Mirerske is, if you take a look at some of Stenmark's skis, he's even taking the AFD off the ski.
31:30.206 --> 31:33.730
[SPEAKER_03]: He wanted to be his low on that deck is possible.
31:34.368 --> 31:42.600
[SPEAKER_03]: And the reason that we've gone away from that from when Phil and Steve and Agamore said is the way that we're skiing now.
31:42.980 --> 31:47.206
[SPEAKER_03]: Racers now, the angles are so incredible that they're booting out.
31:48.227 --> 31:52.113
[SPEAKER_03]: And that extra height helps minimize that booting out.
31:53.815 --> 31:55.097
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's why we see it there.
31:55.498 --> 32:00.865
[SPEAKER_03]: But we're seeing the trend on wider skis being lower on the deck.
32:01.267 --> 32:14.925
[SPEAKER_03]: And the feeling is tremendously different and really, I had a problem with a lot of demo skis and demo bodies that their stack height was a lot different than the retail version.
32:15.225 --> 32:18.029
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, I've got stuff on the side about this also.
32:18.870 --> 32:30.885
[SPEAKER_03]: But when you demo a ski with a certain demo binding and your phone love that ski, you like it, you go in, you buy that ski, you put the retail version on
32:31.777 --> 32:34.301
[SPEAKER_03]: because of that, that's that guy.
32:34.321 --> 32:34.802
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what?
32:34.822 --> 32:39.089
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I just had a memory when he used to ski on vocal more.
32:40.131 --> 32:44.378
[SPEAKER_01]: The, the only time I really liked the vocal can do was when I bought.
32:45.079 --> 32:46.121
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a marker.
32:46.201 --> 32:49.306
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, it was that classic one that goes in their race skis.
32:49.426 --> 32:50.909
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to real arrow looking on it.
32:51.009 --> 32:51.810
[SPEAKER_01]: Wasn't the,
32:52.499 --> 33:20.245
[SPEAKER_01]: Griffin or anything like that was really low to the deck on this candle and I can remember this this these great days at Revlet Stoke where I could get on the groomers just charge and through the trees I really loved it and then I got this you got the next you know version and it came with it was I must have been a much higher stack I had it just did not feel the same so that that makes a lot more sense now there wasn't much change in the design just a binding.
33:20.748 --> 33:21.389
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
33:21.429 --> 33:22.530
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is what we run into this.
33:22.770 --> 33:34.222
[SPEAKER_03]: And well, we had a problem with with marker in that, not only did demobines with taller, but they were a negative delta, meaning the toe is higher than a heel.
33:35.303 --> 33:35.443
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
33:35.463 --> 33:38.286
[SPEAKER_03]: You've got the retail version that had a positive delta.
33:38.766 --> 33:43.631
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a three, it was two degree negative, the three degree positive or vice versa.
33:44.132 --> 33:46.114
[SPEAKER_03]: But it was tremendously different.
33:48.035 --> 33:48.716
[SPEAKER_01]: interesting.
33:48.996 --> 33:51.079
[SPEAKER_01]: So they addressing that now.
33:51.519 --> 33:51.620
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:52.360 --> 34:02.774
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is something I I went nose to notice with them and to the point they they walked away from me and they forgot how to speak English and went back to speaking German.
34:03.374 --> 34:07.219
[SPEAKER_03]: But I when I went to meet with vocal not much later.
34:08.381 --> 34:17.232
[SPEAKER_03]: They said we've addressed what you were talking about and their new demo bond they make a
34:17.532 --> 34:18.533
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, nice.
34:18.833 --> 34:31.308
[SPEAKER_01]: And just for the listeners who hearing Delta or wondering why that is, just think the, like, higher in the front, higher in the back, lower in the front, or the difference in the tone, the heel height, the ramp kind of angle.
34:31.368 --> 34:35.012
[SPEAKER_03]: So is what Phil has changed his everything in your position early.
34:35.392 --> 34:38.756
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, I know you had some conversation with Fred Ames very about this.
34:39.437 --> 34:39.877
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah.
34:41.739 --> 34:42.060
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.
34:42.080 --> 34:43.962
[SPEAKER_03]: But that Delta's dramatically different.
34:44.009 --> 35:02.676
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think it's really neat when we first spoke, you mentioned this and we talked about demoing skis, choosing a pair of skis, how you're trying the ski, the conditions, the binding, and this ramp angle delta height, a delta angle thing here.
35:03.466 --> 35:06.051
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's let's talk about this one.
35:06.151 --> 35:17.593
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I've talked about with foreign other podcasts, but do you want to maybe talk from a Belt sense like what you maybe from what you notice when you get on bindings in it and you're like, oh, I can tell this is
35:18.316 --> 35:30.155
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't do this on the ski, or I feel I have to adjust my stance like this, or I can't go as deep in the turn, other things you notice, let's say with a binding that has a lot of delta.
35:30.175 --> 35:34.682
[SPEAKER_01]: So the heel shoes, you feel like the heel is really high.
35:34.802 --> 35:36.665
[SPEAKER_01]: What's your experience?
35:37.166 --> 35:40.932
[SPEAKER_03]: We're starting for me was when Mark Volk came out the M5.
35:41.553 --> 35:44.315
[SPEAKER_03]: I was never a fan of the previous generation vocals.
35:44.576 --> 35:56.526
[SPEAKER_03]: I found them very stiff, stiff, and blocky, and the M5, let me take a look at this with a clean, clean head, and I took at the 177, I took the 184 out.
35:56.846 --> 35:58.448
[SPEAKER_03]: I moved the binding back, I moved the fourth.
35:58.808 --> 36:01.130
[SPEAKER_03]: I just could not mesh with the ski.
36:01.730 --> 36:03.092
[SPEAKER_03]: I talked to the rep about it.
36:03.412 --> 36:05.053
[SPEAKER_03]: He thought I had some personal grudges.
36:05.994 --> 36:10.598
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, I'm trying to like the ski, but it wasn't the ski, it was the binding.
36:10.578 --> 36:16.451
[SPEAKER_03]: It was because that toe was higher than the heel, and I'd really tumble pressuring that tip.
36:17.774 --> 36:24.008
[SPEAKER_03]: Then when I was put, I skated with a retail version, the life of what I was saying, yeah, this is a really nice ski.
36:24.509 --> 36:27.355
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I started looking at it a little bit deeper.
36:28.550 --> 36:30.633
[SPEAKER_03]: and just realizing the differences.
36:31.474 --> 36:38.404
[SPEAKER_03]: And where I started feeling the height difference was going from that, that demo to retail version.
36:39.586 --> 36:41.869
[SPEAKER_03]: And a guy came to think inclusion.
36:42.691 --> 36:56.751
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is where I looked at this a couple of years ago when they were coming up a new demo system is that they went with a fixed toll and a adjustable heel that adjusts of like four different sizes.
36:57.828 --> 37:00.451
[SPEAKER_03]: which put you a little bit of four and a half on the ski.
37:01.372 --> 37:03.975
[SPEAKER_03]: But, and put you very low on the ski.
37:04.375 --> 37:18.872
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and what I came to the conclusion is, I would rather be four or a half a centimeter or so than two high a centimeter or a skill, especially once you get into skis at start in 80 in the ball.
37:20.073 --> 37:20.493
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
37:20.513 --> 37:21.895
[SPEAKER_01]: But let me just feel.
37:22.685 --> 37:38.263
[SPEAKER_01]: interesting so what you're saying that on this particular binding you you couldn't really keep your boots centered when you when you changed for different sizes because the toe is fixed the toe on toe piece on the skis and the same spot bigger person
37:38.243 --> 37:44.110
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you can only move the heel part back and so they're actually going to be kind of further back as you're saying.
37:44.230 --> 37:46.232
[SPEAKER_03]: But they also set the ski up.
37:46.252 --> 37:48.755
[SPEAKER_03]: They had our one set, let's say 178.
37:49.256 --> 37:50.998
[SPEAKER_03]: They had two different positions on it.
37:51.478 --> 37:57.065
[SPEAKER_03]: One for a 25, 26, 27 and the other one maybe for a 27, 28, 29.
37:57.145 --> 37:57.545
[SPEAKER_03]: Got it.
37:58.526 --> 38:00.128
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so they got around it that way.
38:00.509 --> 38:01.790
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they got around that way.
38:01.810 --> 38:04.053
[SPEAKER_03]: So it wasn't a dramatic difference.
38:04.073 --> 38:05.955
[SPEAKER_03]: We were never more than the centimeter.
38:06.458 --> 38:09.282
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but that was a much better feel than being too high.
38:09.843 --> 38:11.005
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but that's your point.
38:11.045 --> 38:12.347
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what you really like.
38:12.367 --> 38:17.916
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the height thing is really, you like the feeling of lower to the deck.
38:19.619 --> 38:22.503
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so does that, would that be my son?
38:22.523 --> 38:23.285
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's correct.
38:23.845 --> 38:26.329
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what do you feel you get with that?
38:26.430 --> 38:29.274
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you like about the low lower height?
38:30.316 --> 38:30.957
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my dear.
38:30.977 --> 38:31.758
[SPEAKER_03]: I can do no feel.
38:32.760 --> 38:33.040
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:33.661 --> 38:43.852
[SPEAKER_03]: And especially on a wider ski that really wants to be in this snow and not on the snow, when you're pressureing that edge down, I feel reacts a lot smoother.
38:44.253 --> 38:47.256
[SPEAKER_03]: But it is a more tactical feel for the snow.
38:47.837 --> 38:53.323
[SPEAKER_03]: And that also gets into mountain sense and letting that ski bend naturally underneath.
38:54.724 --> 38:55.866
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay.
38:56.426 --> 38:57.307
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would agree.
38:57.367 --> 38:58.909
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the lower to the deck.
38:59.918 --> 39:11.775
[SPEAKER_01]: feeling, especially in uneven sort of terrain, like you say, like mowels, you feel like you're down there more or less sort of topily kind of feeling.
39:11.815 --> 39:14.179
[SPEAKER_01]: It means subtle, but it is definitely there.
39:14.219 --> 39:17.303
[SPEAKER_03]: So then do we go to the fountain accidently?
39:17.468 --> 39:32.693
[SPEAKER_03]: from that marker race, that comp binding, which has been fantastic finding to the Griffin, which actually wasn't, you went from about, probably 18 millimeters high to around 30 millimeters high.
39:33.112 --> 39:36.839
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, I get, yeah, so it's quite a, yeah, no wonder I noticed it.
39:37.460 --> 39:46.516
[SPEAKER_01]: So then I guess it's got me thinking, I, cause I've pushed towards my carving skills or wanting like a little bit wider like this.
39:46.596 --> 39:48.319
[SPEAKER_01]: This one here is now 77.
39:48.339 --> 39:57.516
[SPEAKER_01]: And sort of like that, Bishop curve GT 76, I really enjoyed that because of the not booting out
39:58.036 --> 40:06.710
[SPEAKER_01]: in the snow especially on the north west coast of America where you're sort of you're carving you're definitely getting into the surface of the snow.
40:06.750 --> 40:25.140
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, any thoughts on here on that in terms of like booting out and would the world cut people if they could get around it any other way do you think they might prefer a flatter to the deck lower lower stack height feel or
40:25.441 --> 40:28.426
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, again, if I think bootie had to still get their priority.
40:28.947 --> 40:36.019
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, one of the reasons that we haven't seen Boa on the World Cup yet is the positioning of the dial.
40:36.279 --> 40:39.384
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to see it moving up and it's in development from brands.
40:39.665 --> 40:52.005
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll see it in the next year or two and I wouldn't and I would be surprised if we don't see it on a podium out within the next 24 months, but I think because those angles that they're getting, they need that extra height.
40:52.390 --> 40:56.629
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that sort of shapes keys back and I'm not going to use.
40:57.132 --> 40:57.853
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yep.
40:58.013 --> 41:08.963
[SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of curse my wide of feet that I have to blow my boots out because I'm really always set, I just know that point's coming where the boot on firm is snow.
41:09.003 --> 41:11.506
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like sliding out because it's dragging.
41:12.106 --> 41:18.352
[SPEAKER_01]: Like all my boots, I have to kind of stretch a little bit and so there's a bit, even on the big toe side, I tend to do it.
41:18.372 --> 41:20.274
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a bit of overhanging plastic.
41:21.055 --> 41:26.380
[SPEAKER_01]: So I like the kind of the skis that's still carved well on a wider body because I don't have that.
41:26.731 --> 41:28.633
[SPEAKER_03]: That's 77.
41:28.813 --> 41:29.935
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got some 77.
41:30.696 --> 41:32.538
[SPEAKER_03]: Probably one of my favorite with some escape.
41:33.218 --> 41:39.846
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a ski that I've run flat and I've skied that I've run with a plate system on it.
41:41.168 --> 41:46.293
[SPEAKER_03]: I use a blossom AM77 which we have branded for ourselves.
41:46.654 --> 41:50.098
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll run it with a this plate on it and I run a look pivot on it.
41:50.759 --> 41:51.920
[SPEAKER_03]: I love them both in there.
41:51.960 --> 41:53.802
[SPEAKER_03]: They are definitely different fields.
41:54.068 --> 41:56.693
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, hey, you just, you mentioned plates there.
41:57.394 --> 41:57.755
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
41:57.775 --> 41:59.398
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to, do you want to talk about plates?
41:59.959 --> 42:01.181
[SPEAKER_01]: You're experiencing what you find.
42:01.361 --> 42:01.582
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
42:01.602 --> 42:05.048
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that, that, that's his own thing.
42:05.389 --> 42:07.212
[SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, we can get into plates.
42:08.334 --> 42:11.620
[SPEAKER_03]: But those are really more technical derived skis.
42:11.640 --> 42:13.644
[SPEAKER_03]: And there really is a much choice with them.
42:14.025 --> 42:17.511
[SPEAKER_03]: You're not picking a plate, the plate picks you by the ski.
42:17.913 --> 42:18.454
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
42:18.474 --> 42:24.581
[SPEAKER_03]: But the official plea, which is that, as she said, really by Tyrawall, your place and look and, yeah, okay.
42:24.681 --> 42:31.950
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe then let's talk about, I'm interested I asked you, does how the binding is screwed into the ski?
42:31.970 --> 42:33.712
[SPEAKER_01]: So where those screws are located?
42:33.992 --> 42:37.136
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that people can feel if they're really sensitive?
42:38.458 --> 42:41.802
[SPEAKER_01]: The difference and does that affect the flex pattern of a ski?
42:42.342 --> 42:43.043
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
42:43.883 --> 42:46.907
[SPEAKER_03]: So that can create a blockingness underfoot.
42:47.248 --> 42:54.438
[SPEAKER_03]: And this goes back to like a marker rotomats, which has a very short mount distance on it.
42:54.959 --> 42:59.265
[SPEAKER_03]: These, these three screws here, and these two screws here are fixed.
42:59.805 --> 43:01.408
[SPEAKER_03]: The front screws are floating screw.
43:01.728 --> 43:05.513
[SPEAKER_03]: Allowing that ski to flex very naturally underneath the ski.
43:05.894 --> 43:11.562
[SPEAKER_03]: And that is also one of the popularities of the look pivot is the mount distance.
43:12.757 --> 43:18.687
[SPEAKER_03]: and on the race side, the rosinule rockerace, which is a very short mouth distance.
43:18.707 --> 43:21.091
[SPEAKER_03]: Other manufacturers address a little different ways.
43:21.511 --> 43:31.788
[SPEAKER_03]: Parolia has your free flex, which the heel body is attached to the toe, and it's floating in the back, allowing that ski to flex underneath it.
43:32.309 --> 43:34.933
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of ski, the flex underneath is huge.
43:35.521 --> 43:41.185
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, definitely not having this blocky non-flexed bent ski.
43:41.326 --> 43:43.455
[SPEAKER_03]: And especially for a lighter finesse here.
43:43.705 --> 43:56.399
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, and I found that out through, so pushing my skiing for a long time and chasing like demo team stuff, went to stiffer skis, race plates on them, that's just stuff.
43:57.080 --> 44:07.371
[SPEAKER_01]: I've just realized this last season, I need to come back, I actually prefer the feeling of a flexier lighter, and I'm not very heavy, I'm only like 74 kilos.
44:07.871 --> 44:10.354
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's interesting, you mentioned this,
44:10.334 --> 44:20.367
[SPEAKER_01]: and this flex feeling of the ski, I think, I don't know if you agree, but now that's almost the first thing as I make turns on a ski, I'm trying to feel it, feel for this.
44:20.447 --> 44:30.780
[SPEAKER_01]: It's another no better word than just this flex feeling and feeling like your foot, your outside foot is riding the middle of this bow, this is occurring.
44:30.800 --> 44:34.845
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you feel that, you just go, oh, you sort of start going, I like this ski.
44:35.746 --> 44:38.029
[SPEAKER_03]: And if a ski doesn't bend, it doesn't turn.
44:38.380 --> 44:40.682
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's an important interaction.
44:41.202 --> 44:46.507
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, like you'd have some good side cutting everything in it, but it's awful.
44:47.088 --> 44:50.190
[SPEAKER_01]: If it doesn't really bend nicely, fork for your weight.
44:50.971 --> 44:51.471
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
44:51.491 --> 45:08.286
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, this gets back to I talked about people seeing dins above their really their staying in their lane, but skiing too long, skiing too, skiing too stiff, thinking that things need to ski with metal and not realize
45:08.401 --> 45:15.351
[SPEAKER_03]: one of the biggest burliest skis ever was the K-2-V-O-S-L-L-M, not only didn't have metal, didn't have wood in it.
45:15.932 --> 45:19.477
[SPEAKER_03]: There was a form core wet rap ski, but the thing was an I-B.
45:21.340 --> 45:22.842
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
45:22.862 --> 45:29.832
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so we wrap up this, so the binding screw location or how the binding flexes with the ski.
45:30.453 --> 45:32.316
[SPEAKER_01]: Most bindings now
45:33.038 --> 45:43.295
[SPEAKER_01]: well aware and they try to dress it, you know, tyrolyer with the free flex thing that look the pivot with it's just where that the screws are located.
45:44.557 --> 45:47.041
[SPEAKER_01]: Any final words on your own personal preference?
45:47.061 --> 45:49.384
[SPEAKER_01]: What you like, do you think you can wear it?
45:49.485 --> 45:50.686
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is getting started?
45:50.967 --> 45:51.768
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, all right.
45:53.631 --> 45:55.494
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess now how far do you want to go to weeds?
45:56.035 --> 45:59.080
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is where I want this old tangent here.
45:59.482 --> 46:03.886
[SPEAKER_03]: is everybody needs a 12, 14, 16 combined.
46:04.627 --> 46:07.129
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure really when that started.
46:07.529 --> 46:15.897
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I've got four bindings here and I really wish I had to really be in a fifth and this is a marker M46.
46:16.477 --> 46:21.121
[SPEAKER_03]: Marker MR, Solomon's M47, look for the racing.
46:21.862 --> 46:24.364
[SPEAKER_03]: These bindings match that in the 10.
46:25.705 --> 46:27.447
[SPEAKER_03]: Now 10 is the junior binding.
46:28.405 --> 46:31.050
[SPEAKER_03]: And the adult would be fine on these bindings.
46:33.475 --> 46:42.494
[SPEAKER_03]: The people that you think in the age 12, 14, 16, didn't, you're buying a better housing where these were the best housing offered back then.
46:43.215 --> 46:47.664
[SPEAKER_03]: And we've seen a change in the industry in that sense.
46:47.684 --> 46:49.468
[SPEAKER_03]: And that bothers me a little bit.
46:50.275 --> 46:59.799
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I was to say back to you, would you like to see the same housing almost across whether you're right down, that'd be a better solution?
47:01.083 --> 47:03.188
[SPEAKER_03]: We need that in bindings.
47:03.286 --> 47:24.720
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the same construction all the way through and the in boots to make everything the same qualities at one thirty the same quality liner removable buckles and a by who completely come to me apart from a 90 to 130 so I'm so in a grants with you there got like yes out of yeah I don't know there's a price thing.
47:25.527 --> 47:37.557
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, the fact that like I have to often recommend people get a stiffer kind of boot and just soften it to get the features of both sides cuff alignment, to get a better liner.
47:38.159 --> 47:42.169
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, yeah, you're right, they need to bring out the kind of, the, the, the, the, the.
47:42.790 --> 47:48.300
[SPEAKER_01]: the good quality in just felesa lighter people, kids and everything.
47:48.320 --> 47:53.790
[SPEAKER_03]: But unfortunately, manufacturers have to meet all these price points, which makes it difficult.
47:54.331 --> 47:55.293
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
47:55.433 --> 47:58.318
[SPEAKER_03]: And that part is unfortunate in that sense.
47:58.484 --> 48:07.915
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but I mean, I've got a Ross and you'll 120 here from 2000 and two maybe and they're new 11 to here.
48:08.275 --> 48:10.758
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the same binding same exact housing.
48:11.018 --> 48:14.843
[SPEAKER_03]: If we took these apart upside down, there are identical.
48:16.525 --> 48:16.925
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, nice.
48:18.227 --> 48:24.694
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's something that I think was in
48:24.809 --> 48:29.439
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, oh yeah, and when I said wrap that up I just meant wrap up just the flex part.
48:29.459 --> 48:31.203
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay, more than into talking more.
48:31.263 --> 48:34.009
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah Just more like on the flex part.
48:34.029 --> 48:36.415
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want it like so people in their minds.
48:36.435 --> 48:37.958
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like okay
48:38.292 --> 48:58.798
[SPEAKER_01]: feel sort of uh... just making us aware of yet flex definite that the binding hasn't effect on the flex of the ski and and the way it does is through screw locations and also like the tutorial is different design floating so yeah if we come back to that was anything more you wanted to mention around
48:58.964 --> 49:00.806
[SPEAKER_01]: Blacks and choices finding for that.
49:00.826 --> 49:03.368
[SPEAKER_03]: This is something that a skews going to mature into.
49:03.388 --> 49:11.997
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this isn't high in our priority list, but it's something that might hinder their progression over the course of time.
49:12.497 --> 49:16.962
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, I know you've talked to Brent about this, but like it's can'tting of a booth.
49:17.923 --> 49:22.567
[SPEAKER_03]: You and I and Rogan or a lot of people can discern.
49:23.348 --> 49:26.271
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll get on a ski that's not can't get right and make that work.
49:26.707 --> 49:31.952
[SPEAKER_03]: In the media and events here, hits that ceiling and they can't improve.
49:32.312 --> 49:34.074
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't realize that it might be the equipment.
49:34.454 --> 49:39.399
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's where somebody grows into a better binding as they get better.
49:40.420 --> 49:45.225
[SPEAKER_03]: And skiing, to understand, let's project it as a triangle.
49:45.785 --> 49:48.288
[SPEAKER_03]: As you get better, there's one way to do things.
49:49.028 --> 49:50.650
[SPEAKER_03]: My opinion is the opposite.
49:51.130 --> 49:54.874
[SPEAKER_03]: As you get better, there's more options for you.
49:54.854 --> 49:58.060
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's where you need to find what works best for you.
49:58.761 --> 50:05.733
[SPEAKER_03]: And while we could talk about technical you want, but I firmly skiing is still art, not science.
50:06.995 --> 50:11.884
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, some science evolved, but there's still perception of art and a personal support.
50:12.320 --> 50:28.827
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, it was interesting in Austria one of the projects was to do film myself testing a bunch of skis and this other this female and she was
50:28.807 --> 50:32.032
[SPEAKER_01]: like a good skier, but just a recreational kind of skier.
50:32.573 --> 50:38.021
[SPEAKER_01]: And we tested exactly the same skis and we tried to get the same length, but we changed the flex.
50:38.522 --> 50:41.647
[SPEAKER_01]: So we tested 175 in a soft medium and hard.
50:42.308 --> 50:49.178
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just for the point of finding out the exact same ski, but you feel a different to me.
50:49.580 --> 50:58.292
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's coming out, but it's really interesting, like what, like there was a few assumptions I made beforehand that were wrong.
50:59.033 --> 51:03.259
[SPEAKER_01]: She'd like some skis that I thought she wouldn't, and kind of vice versa.
51:03.860 --> 51:11.871
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think it's, I know what you mean about the art side of things, and this felt sense side of, of skiing.
51:11.931 --> 51:12.572
[SPEAKER_01]: It's important.
51:12.672 --> 51:16.397
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to just base everything on hard numbers and,
51:17.069 --> 51:19.292
[SPEAKER_03]: This isn't an individual sport.
51:19.312 --> 51:25.181
[SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, gone to the days when all the skis were shaped the same, and the only differentiation really was the flex.
51:25.581 --> 51:35.335
[SPEAKER_03]: We've got different tipper profiles, different shapes, different side cuts, multiple side cuts, that there really changed the nuance of characteristics of the ski.
51:35.896 --> 51:38.740
[SPEAKER_03]: And you talked about different testers testing different things.
51:39.867 --> 51:47.039
[SPEAKER_03]: be able a good skier and be able to test the nuances of a ski are two completely different abilities.
51:47.901 --> 51:53.991
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not the best skier about, I'm far from it, but I can discern the nuances of a ski.
51:54.011 --> 51:57.377
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's what that's something I've learned over the course of the time.
51:58.058 --> 52:02.145
[SPEAKER_03]: There's he's and I've taken that ski, flex that, say, oh, this is going to be good.
52:03.070 --> 52:04.914
[SPEAKER_03]: and give us he am absolutely right.
52:05.635 --> 52:08.581
[SPEAKER_03]: But there's other skis that I completely missed on the other people like.
52:09.202 --> 52:11.747
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't care if I dislike or like a skit.
52:12.127 --> 52:12.969
[SPEAKER_03]: That's irrelevant.
52:13.410 --> 52:19.662
[SPEAKER_03]: My job as a tester is to discern who's gonna ski that, who's gonna enjoy it, who's gonna get the most out of it.
52:20.080 --> 52:45.379
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, that must have, and you can only do that with the amount of experience years you've put into doing that and probably thinking like in your head going when I ask it like I'm not just thinking about Phil skiing there's some weather I want to buy this myself you've got to be how do I write this up and recommend and pretend I'm Jim and he enjoy enjoy this
52:45.545 --> 52:48.589
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember the first time we started seeing rocker and skis.
52:49.290 --> 52:54.677
[SPEAKER_03]: I was back in Stratten and it was a beginner ski that had some tip and tail rocker.
52:55.338 --> 53:12.801
[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember getting off the lift and getting off as a beginner wood leaning back because you're in that defensive position, I slid off the lift, spun me around in a 180 and I'm looking back at the lift.
53:13.034 --> 53:39.733
[SPEAKER_01]: You need that camber as you connect into this now so next let's let's discuss a little bit of safety with with bindings and I think the first one is I mentioned this with brant but grip walk bindings grip walk sols and older bindings can you speak to safety there and and if you own a grip walk boot currently and you have an older ski you really need to listen up right now
53:40.135 --> 53:47.091
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a compatibility issue and in today's environment of keeping people body product online.
53:47.493 --> 53:51.479
[SPEAKER_03]: and not getting the compatibility check in in a retailer.
53:52.981 --> 53:57.868
[SPEAKER_03]: Joe Smith buys a pair of has a pair of 26 five boots.
53:58.409 --> 53:59.511
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are getting tired.
53:59.571 --> 54:00.532
[SPEAKER_03]: He had up to 10 years.
54:00.913 --> 54:03.677
[SPEAKER_03]: He goes a line buys another pair of 26 five boots.
54:04.298 --> 54:05.139
[SPEAKER_03]: Same shell size.
54:05.159 --> 54:07.442
[SPEAKER_03]: He looks at three or five, three or five.
54:08.083 --> 54:09.305
[SPEAKER_03]: They should be up to you on the bunny.
54:09.485 --> 54:10.867
[SPEAKER_03]: Not if I'll be clicks in.
54:11.989 --> 54:12.990
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what the problem is.
54:13.471 --> 54:14.833
[SPEAKER_03]: Everything should work fine.
54:15.269 --> 54:44.685
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, very well you might click in but doesn't mean you're going to release because we're talking about what going from grip walk and we've got our regular souls here and you can see the heights here through a grip walk and you can see the difference in the thickness here specifically on the toe
54:45.728 --> 54:47.520
[SPEAKER_03]: Toast on
54:48.327 --> 54:56.419
[SPEAKER_03]: the don't look touching the binding should be identical, but it's going to be taller and we need to got all of this extra material here.
54:56.859 --> 55:07.775
[SPEAKER_03]: So if we got into a binding, that is not a grip walk binding that this toe is going to be jammed in there because of this being so much thicker.
55:08.997 --> 55:16.748
[SPEAKER_03]: And while you'll be able to get in there, it doesn't mean you're going to release.
55:17.065 --> 55:37.167
[SPEAKER_03]: We see a lot of people out of the hill and just look in the lip line with an older binding, with a new boot in there, and there is incompatibility, and it's not that you're trying to sell you something new, but it's about your safety out there on the hill.
55:37.838 --> 55:38.138
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
55:38.399 --> 55:54.016
[SPEAKER_03]: So in that case, most every boot out there that has a grip walk on the soul has a alpine option that you can swap these souls to the older souls so you can use that older binding.
55:54.716 --> 55:54.977
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
55:55.858 --> 55:56.939
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's one option.
55:56.979 --> 56:00.863
[SPEAKER_01]: People have got to feel like, yeah, I just bought a new boot and it's got grip walk souls.
56:01.464 --> 56:04.487
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got a binding that's not grip walk compatible.
56:04.619 --> 56:30.643
[SPEAKER_01]: they can go by the the the the souls to replace it so they can still get it you're going to lose the function of grip walk which is kind of nice or they have to go and get like the binding has to say like grip walk on it to be to be compatible and that's a great work or multi-norm okay and if you look at the venn diagram
56:31.332 --> 57:00.985
[SPEAKER_03]: a multi-nourm binding and a group, a multi-nourm binding is in the company grip block and alpine, a grip block binding will not accommodate multi-nourm or a T, but it will accommodate that DIN or that alpine soul and an alpine binding will not accommodate grip block and those are the multi-nourm.
57:02.045 --> 57:22.855
[SPEAKER_01]: any other things should I be greasing my bindings in summer should I be doing anything to maintain it you know I've got to wax and tune my edges any advice that fairly self-contained okay and what do I do recommend is get your binding check regularly what's the season
57:23.527 --> 57:26.852
[SPEAKER_03]: And just make sure it's functioning within range.
57:27.773 --> 57:35.084
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, what it says on the window, if you're a six, seven, eight, whatever, that number is a point of reference.
57:35.104 --> 57:40.592
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the amount of nude mirrors that on that ASTM testing machine really matters.
57:40.812 --> 57:44.337
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it might show a seven, but as long as it's functioning,
57:44.317 --> 57:54.663
[SPEAKER_03]: within that range of that six within the, I'm just going to use numbers out of the air here, 244, the 260 Newton meters in a range here.
57:55.044 --> 57:57.651
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I don't know where these numbers coming from, I didn't look at it short.
57:58.542 --> 57:59.724
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
57:59.744 --> 58:00.465
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
58:00.485 --> 58:00.965
[SPEAKER_01]: That's good.
58:02.287 --> 58:20.532
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's kind of at least that's something I don't really have to worry about too much, but Oh, what about when, how do you know when you should replace the souls on a boot like when do they start messing up and maybe making it too easy to release or not holding it?
58:20.572 --> 58:22.495
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there any checks for that?
58:23.075 --> 58:23.396
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, there.
58:23.416 --> 58:24.297
[SPEAKER_03]: The kind it is.
58:24.397 --> 58:27.942
[SPEAKER_03]: If you take that boot and let me just grab a boot here.
58:28.225 --> 58:36.775
[SPEAKER_03]: This fluid is hitting you, it's hitting you nice and flat here, if I, if I, if I tilt that, let's see it stops center again.
58:37.657 --> 58:43.243
[SPEAKER_03]: If a boot has a lot of wear, that's just going to keep going a little bit and just slow down a little bit.
58:43.644 --> 58:52.815
[SPEAKER_03]: And then rounding down on the bottom from walking is going to
58:54.027 --> 59:06.129
[SPEAKER_03]: where this should be square all the way through a rectangle really is as you pressure that inside you can flex down a little bit so you're going to lose a little bit of control in there of that boat.
59:07.271 --> 59:14.685
[SPEAKER_03]: And then also you're risking safety in that finding possibly jamming because that boot is moving in there.
59:14.665 --> 59:28.607
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, and the one thing that comes to mind is kids, because I know I buy second hand boots sometimes for my son and kids get, you know, a pair of boots could have gone through three different families.
59:28.823 --> 59:31.486
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely keeping on out on your kid's stuff.
59:32.166 --> 59:33.387
[SPEAKER_01]: Would you, yes?
59:33.728 --> 59:34.468
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, absolutely.
59:35.890 --> 59:41.295
[SPEAKER_03]: And my feeling on that is kids need to grow out of equipment, not into it.
59:41.315 --> 59:50.323
[SPEAKER_03]: Do not expect that boot to get little Johnny through middle school, high school, six years of college, and his first two marriages.
59:50.884 --> 59:52.645
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
59:52.665 --> 59:55.388
[SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully one year, plan for one year,
59:55.756 --> 01:00:23.670
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think that if you have this mentality of of market place and place like that that you you get it and then and you put it there and then you're getting some money back perhaps like there's one way around it I mean I like now unfortunately to to be able to buy him some some newer boots which are really nice But you would totally agree as there's a lot of kids out there is friends that goes skiing with them and the just the boot looks the same size as mine and they're up to my hip
01:00:23.971 --> 01:00:25.733
[SPEAKER_01]: that I wanted to why they're in the back seat.
01:00:26.654 --> 01:00:29.858
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you try to wear a 30.5 and see how you do.
01:00:30.419 --> 01:00:30.519
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:00:30.539 --> 01:00:38.448
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's one of the things I was working on a bootbench and Paris wanted the kit little, he's on like an 18.5.
01:00:38.788 --> 01:00:40.250
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, put him in a 20.5.
01:00:40.991 --> 01:00:42.873
[SPEAKER_03]: And I asked him, I said, what size do you wear?
01:00:43.294 --> 01:00:44.135
[SPEAKER_03]: He says it's 26.5.
01:00:44.775 --> 01:00:45.556
[SPEAKER_03]: I grabbed the 29.5.
01:00:45.756 --> 01:00:47.979
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, put this on.
01:00:48.239 --> 01:00:49.641
[SPEAKER_03]: Tell me how you're going to ski.
01:00:52.321 --> 01:00:53.724
[SPEAKER_00]: That hit I'm pretty well, I bet.
01:00:54.746 --> 01:00:55.748
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:00:55.768 --> 01:00:56.970
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:00:56.990 --> 01:00:57.832
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, excellent.
01:00:58.172 --> 01:01:05.166
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a safety thing with the bindings in terms of maintenance, um... Nealicit professionals.
01:01:05.213 --> 01:01:12.963
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and when you said go get it tested, certain shops, good, good shops have been around the ones that have a good reputation.
01:01:12.983 --> 01:01:16.728
[SPEAKER_01]: They often have, they'll have the facilities to be able to test a binding, won't they?
01:01:17.028 --> 01:01:23.236
[SPEAKER_03]: But the really, any, any shop that carries this specific friend are required to be able to test that binding.
01:01:24.137 --> 01:01:28.102
[SPEAKER_03]: They go through all the procedures, all the, all the modules on how to do that.
01:01:28.783 --> 01:01:29.624
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, great.
01:01:29.845 --> 01:01:30.365
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, cool.
01:01:30.545 --> 01:01:32.488
[SPEAKER_03]: At least in the US, I'm not, I can't speak.
01:01:32.508 --> 01:01:32.608
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:01:32.668 --> 01:01:34.090
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure how it is where you are.
01:01:34.323 --> 01:01:36.065
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, that's good to know.
01:01:37.067 --> 01:01:41.052
[SPEAKER_01]: Feel, is there anything more we need to mention about bindings?
01:01:41.072 --> 01:01:42.534
[SPEAKER_01]: We've covered a lot here.
01:01:42.594 --> 01:01:54.810
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm feeling good about, especially about the, for me, just like the non-ego, marcho, like, oh, I should be on a higher, den binding or whatever.
01:01:56.692 --> 01:01:57.834
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, anything more you wanna?
01:01:59.196 --> 01:02:03.942
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll take this from Marcus Cassen.
01:02:04.478 --> 01:02:15.592
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't think that you need to run that body at a super-hyde, and as soon as I hear that, a young guy comes in my eyes roll in the back of my head, do your not that good.
01:02:16.533 --> 01:02:19.957
[SPEAKER_03]: And beyond so, you're compensating for something else.
01:02:20.618 --> 01:02:21.939
[SPEAKER_03]: Learn how to ski better.
01:02:23.301 --> 01:02:27.246
[SPEAKER_03]: So, the you ski the lower, you can ski that finding.
01:02:27.850 --> 01:02:29.112
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
01:02:29.132 --> 01:02:29.813
[SPEAKER_01]: Fantastic.
01:02:30.073 --> 01:02:41.390
[SPEAKER_03]: And then who said when you're buying your better binding, you're not necessarily buying your bigger spring, you're buying your better housing and that coupling of how that holds the boots of the ski.
01:02:42.031 --> 01:02:56.912
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, a lesser binding where manufacturers unfortunately happen to these lower price points because it could amount of people out there just look at finding as a commodity and these the people that go to Walmart by their tires,
01:02:57.820 --> 01:03:06.451
[SPEAKER_03]: but not realizing the tires, the most important safety aspect of your carcasses, what holds you to the road, the bindies, what holds you to the ski.
01:03:07.112 --> 01:03:09.535
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't shortcut on the binding.
01:03:09.555 --> 01:03:10.756
[SPEAKER_03]: Get a better binding.
01:03:10.776 --> 01:03:14.641
[SPEAKER_03]: Step up to that little bit of a binding because of the better housing.
01:03:15.402 --> 01:03:17.685
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay, yeah, that's great.
01:03:18.266 --> 01:03:19.007
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great advice.
01:03:19.067 --> 01:03:21.510
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say, please take this all this.
01:03:21.530 --> 01:03:24.013
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a conversation between Phil and I.
01:03:24.247 --> 01:03:25.929
[SPEAKER_01]: to bring up some interesting topics.
01:03:26.109 --> 01:03:27.852
[SPEAKER_01]: None of this is a recommendation.
01:03:28.633 --> 01:03:32.277
[SPEAKER_01]: You take everything on your own risks and that right now.
01:03:32.297 --> 01:03:33.118
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
01:03:33.138 --> 01:03:35.602
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, you do it at your own risk.
01:03:35.622 --> 01:03:44.994
[SPEAKER_01]: But hopefully it's some interesting stuff and it forces people to think more for themselves like you've just done there about the housing idea and not the numbers.
01:03:45.675 --> 01:03:49.900
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the quality of materials and how it binds to the ski.
01:03:51.230 --> 01:03:56.657
[SPEAKER_03]: And I know you've had influence a lot of manufacturers and he designs, same with me on the body side.
01:03:57.118 --> 01:03:59.300
[SPEAKER_03]: I've dealt with every single of these manufacturers.
01:03:59.801 --> 01:04:04.908
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got my thumb prints on a lot of body products that are out there, the Pivot 15.
01:04:05.228 --> 01:04:12.037
[SPEAKER_03]: That was us pushing that to come back, market changing of Delta, Solomon with some variations of their bindings.
01:04:12.377 --> 01:04:18.385
[SPEAKER_03]: But this is something I've worked with almost every single manufacturer and they trust my judgment.
01:04:19.107 --> 01:04:23.954
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything then coming we could be expecting or they're kind of in the works.
01:04:24.134 --> 01:04:28.981
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what are some other any things that yeah, you're you're allowed to give us some any insights there.
01:04:29.622 --> 01:04:30.603
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
01:04:31.865 --> 01:04:32.146
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
01:04:32.226 --> 01:04:33.127
[SPEAKER_03]: Good.
01:04:33.167 --> 01:04:36.872
[SPEAKER_03]: There's the NDA's that I'm involved in in the next.
01:04:37.553 --> 01:04:40.638
[SPEAKER_03]: I will say in the next probably 30 to 45 days.
01:04:41.218 --> 01:04:43.782
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to see some significant bindings coming up.
01:04:44.403 --> 01:04:47.107
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, cool, and they're really excited.
01:04:47.708 --> 01:04:49.551
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, cool, performance and safety.
01:04:50.492 --> 01:04:51.574
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, raise.
01:04:51.594 --> 01:04:53.437
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, great.
01:04:53.477 --> 01:04:54.018
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's cool.
01:04:54.038 --> 01:04:55.280
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all I wanted to know.
01:04:55.560 --> 01:04:57.523
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it just something that's dead in the water?
01:04:57.944 --> 01:04:59.566
[SPEAKER_01]: The findings are going to be the same way they are.
01:05:00.507 --> 01:05:00.868
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
01:05:01.048 --> 01:05:02.350
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's cool to hear.
01:05:02.791 --> 01:05:06.236
[SPEAKER_01]: And you heard it for here on Big Pitches King podcast first.
01:05:07.057 --> 01:05:07.358
[SPEAKER_01]: Bill.
01:05:08.079 --> 01:05:08.820
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
01:05:09.121 --> 01:05:13.347
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody make sure you go check out skitalk.com.
01:05:13.782 --> 01:05:16.306
[SPEAKER_01]: finding out the need to agree and a community.
01:05:16.326 --> 01:05:17.407
[SPEAKER_01]: I know the community there.
01:05:17.447 --> 01:05:30.626
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a lot of people sort of that have invested a lot of time and they're willing to give their time on advice of skis and you can look up the search by the history there is huge.
01:05:30.706 --> 01:05:31.707
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
01:05:32.024 --> 01:05:38.895
[SPEAKER_01]: Any topic you can think of about equipment, skiing, it's probably got a thread on ski talk.
01:05:38.915 --> 01:05:41.479
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I'm definitely plugging it there.
01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:42.922
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a great sight.
01:05:43.543 --> 01:05:53.138
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks Phil for being one of the reviewers and testers out there giving people some insights, so they don't have to drop a bunch of money on something that have no idea about.
01:05:53.590 --> 01:05:56.833
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything you want to say, final, final was before you wrap it up.
01:05:56.853 --> 01:05:59.276
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much, Tom, for bringing me a board here.
01:05:59.996 --> 01:06:04.821
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, the information that we have, there's nothing worse in getting somebody on the wrong here.
01:06:05.642 --> 01:06:10.166
[SPEAKER_03]: So it doesn't do them any good, it doesn't do the manufacturer, and it doesn't do us any good.
01:06:10.587 --> 01:06:12.629
[SPEAKER_03]: We want to set people up for success.
01:06:13.450 --> 01:06:16.993
[SPEAKER_03]: So anything we can do to help that, reject the comrades you have to meet.
01:06:17.634 --> 01:06:20.897
[SPEAKER_03]: If we don't know the answer, we'll make it up and stay with confidence.
01:06:21.097 --> 01:06:22.479
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, good.
01:06:22.499 --> 01:06:23.680
[SPEAKER_01]: Unreal, thanks a lot, Phil.
01:06:24.401 --> 01:06:24.762
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
01:06:25.002 --> 01:06:28.106
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening to another episode of The Big Picture Skin podcast.
01:06:28.226 --> 01:06:32.011
[SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate everybody that tunes in and listens to the show.
01:06:32.692 --> 01:06:43.425
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're not a subscriber, do it now because then you get notified whenever I bring out a new episode and I always try and make them always full of great information and useful stuff makes you think.
01:06:43.986 --> 01:06:49.753
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, hit that subscribe button right now and I'll see you on the next podcast, Happy Skin.