WEBVTT
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[SPEAKER_02]: Today, we're talking about conflict.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We live in the world where teams are spread across cities and countries.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What seems to be a misalignment, it might actually be a difference in communication style, expectation, or cultural norm.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The real question is, how do we know the difference?
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[SPEAKER_02]: And how can we handle it in a way that creates connection?
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[SPEAKER_02]: In today's episode, I have Anna Lycott.
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[SPEAKER_02]: She has built multiple business across different countries.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And today, she works with leaders on conflict and communication.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get started.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Real Estate Investor podcast.
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[SPEAKER_01]: A top 1% show helping women achieve financial freedom by investing in real estate.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And now, your host, Liz Faircloth and Andresda Gidelli.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Many real estate investors avoid conflict for different reasons, but during a webinar, the number one reason they told me they avoid having a difficult conversation is because they don't want to make things worse.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So let's talk about it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What is the next step on it when you're looking at a situation and you know you need to have that conversation, but you actually don't want to because you don't feel comfortable doing that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What would just say to that person listening to us?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for asking.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And just let's remember, we all paid conflict.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We grew up in culture that teaches us to avoid conflict that loving someone means keeping the peace, making things smooth, avoiding it, and most of us were told, okay, you have a hard conversation, just absorb it all, and then let keep the peace.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I was like that also as per review and many listeners that I would rehearse 40 times how I'm going to start it, and then when the
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, the first thing is to remember, we all like, I like that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Very few people love a door, just can't wait to have a hard conversation.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, it's a self-knowledge, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I also know in how do you specifically react when you are trying to, with the hard conversation, do you freeze?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you run away?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you get defensive?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you attack?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Which is all, all these are not useful.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then what's important to remember is that in front of you is another human being with the same or similar fears, the same our similar values because those are all intrinsic to us as human beings.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So they also care about being seen, being witnessed, being loved.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They also want to have a feeling of belonging.
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[SPEAKER_00]: they want to have a connection with you and they want to be acknowledged and validated.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So just remembering that getting the focus from you onto them and remembering that they are the human being.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So whatever it is that you need to do to remember.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So my hack, for example, if I have really am feeling resistant to connection, I will look at the person and I will imagine them as a five-year-old.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, like in our body, like I'm all about somatic processing and about our body and feeling our body.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, if I look at you and I think about you as a five year old, in my body, there is this, Oh, like this, you know, like, oh, this person is like, is afraid of something or really wants to be seen.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And immediately, I'm softer, I'm kind of, I can be more deliberate.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: So you then first is remembering human being.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Another one is how do you listen?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Is the person experiencing being completely hurt?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's an art, and I teach that in my workshop, so it's the quality of listening, should be really am I ready to change my mind?
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not preparing, I'm not preparing my answer while you're talking.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm listening to you fully and you know another hack there is letting people finish their sentences until the last word.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So we tend to help people speak.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And we will be like, if the person makes the polls and they're looking for that last word, we tend to stop them, interject something like, help them out, you know?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I've practiced for a year, I give myself a practice, regular practice, of not finishing people sentences.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what, I have found out that what I was about to say,
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[SPEAKER_00]: was absolutely different direction where people were going, but because we have a confirmation bias, because we want to be agreeable, because we want we always prioritize connection.
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[SPEAKER_00]: People just know and they also feel bad that they are opposing, because in our culture, especially in the West, we are not supposed to stay quiet, silent with each other.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot to unpack there, Anna.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I want to start with feeling heard, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes we paraphrase where the person is saying so we can get to like, is this what you said?
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[SPEAKER_02]: And they still feel that, no, that's not what I said and that you repeated again in different types of strategies.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure when people are in conversations, they want to feel that they're being heard
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[SPEAKER_02]: how do we make that happen?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think that many times, like I hear you, I understand you, but the other person does not feel heard.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Where is the root cause of that disconnection?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for asking that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think it's about a technique.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a communication technique.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's how conflict right now is taught.
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[SPEAKER_00]: that, oh, just say that, or just repeat back what they said.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we can trick people into getting an experience of being fully hurt.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think the only way to do it is truly being ready to change your mind.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not faking it until you make it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not okay if I rip it back Or if I say oh what I hear you say you know, there are all these tricks.
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[SPEAKER_00]: No because if you really in your mind already know their own There's nothing they can say that will change your mind and you're just trying to manipulate them into getting them to the right place If this is why you're there, it's not going to work
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[SPEAKER_00]: Even the best of people who teach it, they don't, they don't achieve it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: People feel, and I think we, we underestimate how much people feel.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, all my work comes from tango dancing, I'm a tango dancer, and I teach conflict, through dancing, through somatic movement.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And in tango, we don't speak.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We are very close to each other, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: We really feel each other's bodies, because it's a fully improvised dance.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And the only way to follow and lead is to fully listen with our whole body to what is the experience of the person who is in our arms.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We can feel and hear the breathing, like the external is breathing, you know, nerve shaking, we can all feel it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But then there is also the intuition, intuitive part of how they feel in.
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[SPEAKER_00]: at the nervous right now really, like are they confident?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Are they open to me?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do they want to go slow?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do they want to go fast?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I dance both roles.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I also feel for, do they want to initiate?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Or do they want to surrender?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do they want to lead or follow?
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, because I switch between leading and following.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's really going back to the conflict if you're faking it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and you are trying to lead them to your conclusion.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a conversation and you don't have permission for that conversation.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I love it so much.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I have a very high bar for conversations.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So if I'm not ready to change my mind, if I can speak a lot with people who have different political views,
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[SPEAKER_00]: who are very anti, whatever I represent.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm Jewish, I speak with anti-syments, open racist, man who think women has to stay in a kitchen and never do anything on her own.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm also Ukrainian and Ukrainian is at war and I will speak to Russian people even if they are pro-war.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This is practice every day for me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And if I'm not ready to change my mind to something that is so unacceptable to me, I will say it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I will put that card on the table.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Can we go there in terms of changing our mind by the way I love?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I never thought about the concept of tango as a...
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[SPEAKER_02]: the same thing on the when you're having a conflict and I think really starting by sharing Hey, this is uncomfortable to me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I never I don't like to do this, but bear with me as I process with you Just like putting the cards right there same as a person dancey.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, this is my first time during Tango I actually don't know how to navigate this bear with me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Let's create something but you you are talking about being ready to change our minds
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[SPEAKER_02]: How do we evaluate if, let's start with ourselves, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: How do I know if I'm ready to change my mind?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Or like, I'm asking very like, how would somebody that is listening now know for sure?
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[SPEAKER_02]: She's ready to change her mind.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's great.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for bringing it to very practical steps.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I love that and I'm always you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's how the conversation should be.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So practically, it's about intellectual humility.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's about it's okay to be wrong.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And this is very hard for us, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because we like to be right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so for that, I personally keep the goal.
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[SPEAKER_00]: My ultimate goal is the connection with another human
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[SPEAKER_00]: So if I am going in and I am trying to manipulate them into voting for my party, it's not a conversation.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I need to go in and say, and I've talked to many people who campaign.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that the most successful people who campaign, they're the ones who will knock on somebody's door, because they want to make a friend, not because they want that person to vote for them, or for their party.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So what is your intention here?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to maintain this friendship?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to keep speaking to your mother?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want the love to continue and grow?
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[SPEAKER_00]: What do you want to be right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: So you check your intention.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then another part is constantly knowing where you are at.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And there is a lot of work on self knowledge and knowing where your body is at.
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[SPEAKER_00]: To notice early on, if you are getting overfluttered if something triggers you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I, for example, know my triggers really well.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I watch myself carefully, and I know there are aspects of life, of values that if it's touched, if somebody threatens that value, I get so overflatted that I cannot be deliberate anymore.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I know them, and I disclose them upfront so people who don't know me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: For example, somehow, for whatever reason, I cannot stand being told what to do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: the way I grew up, and I worked with my therapist on it for a long time, I'm working on it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like I overflowed easier than most people, like don't you tell me what to do?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot be deliberate.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So if I'm driving a car and somebody's in the passenger's seat next to me and they do not know me, I tell them before we start the drive.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Look, like I want us to be friends at the end of the drive.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I love you, I respect you, and I have this thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So please, do not tell me to turn right to, if unless, unless there is danger and then just say slow down, stop poles like be very concrete with what I need to do and very clean, no passive aggressive, no sarcastic, do not joke about my driving.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like,
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I'm very important and then I will be enjoying the drive and we'll have a great conversation I'll be focused right so I open my cards again like it's back to I like this idea of a I have a blueprint There is like a blueprint of math I give you two people like if it's a new friendship
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[SPEAKER_00]: I will say, I don't like to be ignored.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like quite a queen.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I will say, you know, and it's honest.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I like that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I feel that then I get to know you and you get to know me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I am more interesting that type of relationship versus people wearing masks and keep their cards to themselves.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's not fun.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We're not fun.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It also takes a long time to be attached and fall in love with each other or have fun together or have collaboration because you have to learn about me for years and years and then I change because we change every day and then you have to keep learning and I'm a friend.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Even something changes, I update the software.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I say, oh, you know, this new thing showed up.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You want to be my friend.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I easily think that you ignore me if you don't reply to me within a few days.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, of course, okay, I'm glad I'm glad to know, but it's not of course for many people.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, like for example, I have a thing about alcohol.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the way you're grabbed and Soviet Union, alcohol was danger, meant danger.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't drink, and I will say if we go, if I'm going out, I will tell people with me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: that I don't like being around people who start to slur.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If they've reached a level with slur in the curse, I will leave a minute before.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If you want, let's talk about it now, because it's not about you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I curse without drinking.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I also don't drink.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What I curse?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's better, not curse.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: No cursing all the boots.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You probably somebody speaks and then this don't speak clearly You know, okay, all right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but because slurring cursing is great.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, all right Lurring for me is something that it signals to me that the person is not clear anymore in their mind
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[SPEAKER_00]: and that they might not be remembering this conversation tomorrow.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They cannot be deliberate anymore.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's signals danger to my system.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's nothing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not detrimental about them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not criticizing their lifestyle.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying, I need to get out.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's my boundary and I will tell them a friend.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like that in a conflict too.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Cars on a table.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This is who I am.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'll share one of my cards.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Please.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I want to ask you.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh god.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You and all the women that are listening.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So one of my my cards is when I'm speaking with somebody about let's say we are going on a meeting to talk about very specific subject and then the other person starts talking but they start talking as if they didn't think about it before they didn't process it and they're what I call they have an open brain.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They are talking as they are processing it, and he feels that they are like literally vomiting all their thoughts together, to me, and it takes.
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[SPEAKER_02]: a long time for them to get to the point that they want to make.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't work for me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What I have a rule with people is like, see where you're at.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What are your known negotiables?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Check with yourself.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have an opinion about something?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Is it like a...
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[SPEAKER_02]: cannot have ten on something.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You don't have it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What are the most important things that you want to accomplish?
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[SPEAKER_02]: What are the details that you want to leave out of this conversation?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Would you are trying to get out of it?
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[SPEAKER_02]: But when we have like half an hour to have this conversation and then the person go into a rampage and jump from one subject to the other, I'm like, not lost.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know
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[SPEAKER_02]: that really doesn't work for me and it has nothing to do with the person he has to do with me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: How I value time and how I respect people's time.
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[SPEAKER_02]: For me,
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[SPEAKER_02]: I come from Brazil, I am an immigrant many times.
16:08.236 --> 16:16.852
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't get a second chance to make a point, to get a job or to sell myself or to try again on this scholarship.
16:16.872 --> 16:23.965
[SPEAKER_02]: I had one chance and I had to come really prepared for that interview for that opportunity.
16:23.945 --> 16:26.649
[SPEAKER_02]: and I couldn't waste my time.
16:26.829 --> 16:32.978
[SPEAKER_02]: So I had to do this, this work to kind of go back and it's not about the other person.
16:33.019 --> 16:34.661
[SPEAKER_02]: They can express how they feel.
16:34.701 --> 16:43.955
[SPEAKER_02]: But for me, I think, is my connection with time because I don't have time to waste and I don't think other people have it.
16:43.995 --> 16:46.138
[SPEAKER_02]: But I look at
16:46.118 --> 16:47.982
[SPEAKER_02]: as single opportunities.
16:48.844 --> 16:51.449
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's make the best out of it and come prepared.
16:51.850 --> 16:55.678
[SPEAKER_02]: So people not coming with their thoughts straight.
16:56.279 --> 17:03.655
[SPEAKER_02]: It feels to me that they did not put the effort into it as I am putting.
17:03.635 --> 17:04.416
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
17:04.757 --> 17:05.578
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
17:05.598 --> 17:07.922
[SPEAKER_00]: And can I offer something more to them?
17:08.002 --> 17:08.302
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
17:09.264 --> 17:12.889
[SPEAKER_00]: So in tango, you know how they say it takes two to tango.
17:13.350 --> 17:14.071
[SPEAKER_00]: Throw it, yeah.
17:14.853 --> 17:18.518
[SPEAKER_00]: And so usually people think it takes two to tango, means it takes two people, right?
17:18.558 --> 17:20.041
[SPEAKER_00]: We use it in that instance.
17:20.061 --> 17:20.241
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:20.842 --> 17:24.187
[SPEAKER_00]: Teach her my tango teacher, Veronica Tumano, but she said it differently.
17:24.227 --> 17:27.532
[SPEAKER_00]: She says that takes two to tango, means two connections.
17:28.253 --> 17:31.819
[SPEAKER_00]: One with myself and another connection with the other person.
17:32.744 --> 17:38.592
[SPEAKER_00]: For that, I need to be fully present for myself, where is my access?
17:38.832 --> 17:39.714
[SPEAKER_00]: Where are my feet?
17:40.415 --> 17:41.356
[SPEAKER_00]: How am I feeling?
17:41.736 --> 17:43.178
[SPEAKER_00]: Where am I centered?
17:43.359 --> 17:45.682
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, am I planted on the floor?
17:46.343 --> 17:47.184
[SPEAKER_00]: How am I feeling?
17:47.284 --> 17:49.647
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I hungry, lonely, angry, tired?
17:50.388 --> 17:53.512
[SPEAKER_00]: How do I feel about the music, the floor, the other person?
17:53.673 --> 17:55.335
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the connection with that person?
17:55.856 --> 17:59.781
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I'm guessing what you are experiencing in those moments.
17:59.761 --> 18:03.988
[SPEAKER_00]: moments when people are not fully there, they're not fully clear.
18:04.129 --> 18:06.593
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not necessarily about their logical preparation.
18:07.234 --> 18:11.922
[SPEAKER_00]: I bet you would enjoy talking to someone on the fly without preparation.
18:12.383 --> 18:14.266
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not only that fully there.
18:14.426 --> 18:16.650
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really a limbic system experience.
18:17.051 --> 18:18.293
[SPEAKER_00]: We know.
18:18.273 --> 18:30.787
[SPEAKER_00]: When the other person is not present, we know deeply and it's very loud even I would say more loudly in women because we had to pay more attention to it as we were socialized and the world is dangerous.
18:31.188 --> 18:35.733
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have to really pay attention to what is the state of the person in front of me.
18:36.634 --> 18:47.166
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you probably feel unsafe and it's really irritating to you when somebody is not fully
18:48.344 --> 18:54.412
[SPEAKER_00]: But even if they were able to stay logical and prepared, but the thoughts were somewhere else.
18:54.432 --> 18:58.377
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they were experiencing something different and they were not fully focused on you.
18:58.797 --> 19:00.119
[SPEAKER_00]: You would be highly irritated.
19:00.920 --> 19:01.180
[SPEAKER_02]: Cool.
19:02.402 --> 19:06.267
[SPEAKER_02]: And my business partner, Liz and I, we have been business partners for 10 years.
19:06.627 --> 19:11.393
[SPEAKER_02]: And we really invested in ourselves in getting to know ourselves.
19:11.814 --> 19:13.296
[SPEAKER_02]: We know each other's triggers.
19:13.937 --> 19:16.680
[SPEAKER_02]: And an agreement that we made,
19:16.660 --> 19:21.969
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that when I can tell she's triggered or I can tell she can tell that I am triggered.
19:22.911 --> 19:28.340
[SPEAKER_02]: We take a step outside to regulate versus to continue something.
19:28.480 --> 19:30.424
[SPEAKER_02]: As you mentioned, I'm coming out of my game.
19:30.464 --> 19:39.900
[SPEAKER_02]: So for the women that are listening, right when they are in a heated argument or in recurring conflicts,
19:40.707 --> 19:47.478
[SPEAKER_02]: How do we get out of this cycle of talking about, oh, I would talk to him about it.
19:47.639 --> 19:51.926
[SPEAKER_02]: Contractors, let's say, I already like the repetitive conflicts.
19:52.266 --> 19:55.672
[SPEAKER_02]: How do we get to the real root cause of it?
19:55.893 --> 19:59.138
[SPEAKER_02]: And what is it teaching us if it is,
19:59.118 --> 20:00.541
[SPEAKER_02]: repeating over and over again.
20:00.581 --> 20:02.345
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
20:02.365 --> 20:06.374
[SPEAKER_00]: And to say, I want to first address what you said before was your business partner first of all is beautiful.
20:06.454 --> 20:09.621
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it when people work for a long time and how well they know each other.
20:09.641 --> 20:15.895
[SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that you, if one of you gets triggered, you step out, I want to address that point first if you don't mind.
20:15.875 --> 20:16.937
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's absolutely.
20:17.498 --> 20:20.583
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've heard this as taught by conflict people do that.
20:20.743 --> 20:21.925
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I take a pose?
20:21.945 --> 20:26.393
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've been teaching it also, but then in last couple of years I've been trying to not do that.
20:26.894 --> 20:32.724
[SPEAKER_00]: And stay in because I'm really practicing staying and, you know, all my work is about stay in the tension.
20:33.305 --> 20:34.407
[SPEAKER_00]: Because
20:34.387 --> 20:38.333
[SPEAKER_00]: Usually, when we're in attention, it's because something big got triggered in us.
20:38.574 --> 20:41.438
[SPEAKER_00]: Fear, value, something that's non-negotiable.
20:41.559 --> 20:46.466
[SPEAKER_00]: And to find that non-negotiable and to talk about it with the person in front of you is gold.
20:47.448 --> 20:59.247
[SPEAKER_00]: Because when the other person sees us, disclose now fear or our value or our love to them, they will trust us because they will recognize us as another human being, and they will stand up for us.
20:59.227 --> 21:03.976
[SPEAKER_00]: and help us out because they now love us, they now see us, they now trust us.
21:04.737 --> 21:12.692
[SPEAKER_00]: And so those moments that we really in our culture say, you know, just step away, step away, come down by yourself and then come back and peace.
21:12.992 --> 21:17.180
[SPEAKER_02]: I say, no, I agree with that and let me clarify because I probably didn't.
21:17.741 --> 21:23.091
[SPEAKER_02]: So we take a pause on the subject itself and we address the trigger.
21:23.071 --> 21:36.090
[SPEAKER_02]: So we, we process it together before you would take a long time for us to process, but right now we have a literally like a one page, how do we get to the, the root cause, but we put the subject that we were discussing aside.
21:36.150 --> 21:39.675
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we address what we're seeing.
21:39.735 --> 21:41.738
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, it seems that
21:41.718 --> 21:42.499
[SPEAKER_02]: your trigger.
21:42.559 --> 21:43.520
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's go there.
21:43.560 --> 21:44.962
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see what's coming up for you.
21:45.002 --> 21:47.285
[SPEAKER_02]: We usually say that what's what's coming up for you?
21:47.305 --> 21:50.449
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we would kind of like put it aside.
21:50.509 --> 21:52.151
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but we don't we don't go away.
21:52.211 --> 21:54.253
[SPEAKER_02]: We we we we we we okay.
21:54.273 --> 21:54.414
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
21:54.994 --> 21:55.275
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
21:55.295 --> 21:55.475
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
21:55.495 --> 21:55.675
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
21:56.056 --> 22:01.422
[SPEAKER_00]: Because also because I see that I heard a tot and seminars, you know, step away.
22:01.522 --> 22:03.364
[SPEAKER_00]: I think opposed come back to kill yourself.
22:03.385 --> 22:04.005
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not for me.
22:04.065 --> 22:04.686
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think.
22:04.886 --> 22:05.447
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
22:05.427 --> 22:07.590
[SPEAKER_02]: I would like to rebeam them the boat.
22:08.111 --> 22:09.112
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say you, right?
22:09.853 --> 22:13.918
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's let's process it and get to the, you know, exactly.
22:13.978 --> 22:14.940
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's that's important.
22:14.960 --> 22:18.505
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's stay together in connection and hold my hands through this, right?
22:18.525 --> 22:26.355
[SPEAKER_00]: And also another thing that's very important, I think, with people who've been together for a long time, is not to become a friend therapist to the other person.
22:26.335 --> 22:43.585
[SPEAKER_00]: is always do I because you've just said, and I'm sorry, I'm just, I'm not, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just,
22:44.392 --> 22:47.777
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always, I think I'm a flood flood in here.
22:47.797 --> 23:03.818
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what you just said, I, I, I, because we, especially nowadays with AI with so many, there's so much content about psychology and therapy, people love being therapist through each other.
23:03.798 --> 23:16.761
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, oh, you know, I watch this short and I think you are doing this and they're talking about each other's attachment style and love languages and all, you know, and trauma and child of trauma and I'm always like,
23:17.315 --> 23:37.500
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, not that there have been a friend and yes, friends are there for processing as I think that as long as we are not playing the role that we would like to maybe do in life, but this is what's happening to me, right?
23:37.480 --> 23:44.375
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, a long time ago I learned that if I have an occurring conflict with someone, there is something for me to learn there.
23:44.415 --> 23:45.337
[SPEAKER_00]: Something is up.
23:45.798 --> 23:51.109
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lesson that the universe, whatever you want to call, whatever you believe exists, or just it's a chance.
23:51.169 --> 23:57.362
[SPEAKER_00]: It's coming to me to learn a lesson because this conflict keeps happening in my life.
23:57.342 --> 23:59.164
[SPEAKER_00]: while all the other issues are resolved.
23:59.604 --> 24:03.408
[SPEAKER_00]: So even more so, a chance to invite that person for lunch.
24:03.508 --> 24:06.350
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not about not when they're in front of their people, right?
24:06.651 --> 24:10.514
[SPEAKER_00]: It's to become tea coffee beer, whatever your cup of tea is.
24:11.375 --> 24:15.038
[SPEAKER_00]: And do I, again, hey, I am noticed.
24:15.218 --> 24:15.959
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so strange.
24:16.059 --> 24:17.881
[SPEAKER_00]: I love everything that's going on between us.
24:17.981 --> 24:19.202
[SPEAKER_00]: However, this is one thing.
24:19.763 --> 24:20.924
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't keep getting triggered.
24:20.944 --> 24:21.845
[SPEAKER_00]: It's something about me.
24:21.965 --> 24:23.466
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you be willing to sit with me?
24:24.007 --> 24:25.628
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, look into me.
24:25.608 --> 24:30.295
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not looking to you, and then another trick, again, trick, hack, whatever you want to say.
24:30.315 --> 24:37.826
[SPEAKER_00]: So for example, if I have a conversation with my husband with whom I have the most difficult conversations, like I think that the highest takes, the more difficult conversations, right?
24:38.487 --> 24:39.008
[SPEAKER_00]: I do this.
24:39.288 --> 24:48.282
[SPEAKER_00]: If we are in a restaurant, he's French and so he really loves like nice restaurant wine and wine, I don't even drink, so okay, water and wine for him.
24:48.862 --> 24:51.306
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, you know, sit like this and front of each other.
24:51.326 --> 24:51.987
[SPEAKER_00]: And
24:51.967 --> 25:02.948
[SPEAKER_00]: While I respect that ritual and in friends, you know, people are very serious about the ritual of how they eat, when I have a hard conversation to have with my husband, I will put a chair next to him.
25:02.968 --> 25:08.218
[SPEAKER_00]: And I will say, you and me have this problem.
25:10.202 --> 25:13.148
[SPEAKER_00]: So we together here, I team.
25:14.410 --> 25:16.194
[SPEAKER_00]: and for us there is this problem.
25:16.314 --> 25:18.660
[SPEAKER_00]: It's never you and me have a problem.
25:19.081 --> 25:30.787
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very difficult for bodies to understand if I am looking at you pointing at you, imagine in the third problem, but if we had to get the next to each other, so if the contractor can you bring a lunch and sit on a curb?
25:31.369 --> 25:32.892
[SPEAKER_00]: Next to each other?
25:33.361 --> 25:36.485
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you show even, it was your hands.
25:36.845 --> 25:41.571
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a problem, can we discuss together because you and me, we are team.
25:41.611 --> 25:44.494
[SPEAKER_00]: We can only succeed if we continue being a team.
25:45.195 --> 25:53.285
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, I love this so much because it's us against the problem, whatever that problem, but I like that you are maturizing it.
25:53.685 --> 25:56.849
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it your chair, is it a house, is it whatever that is?
25:56.929 --> 26:02.035
[SPEAKER_02]: So then every time that I look at that chair, then we're talking about the problem versus
26:02.015 --> 26:03.036
[SPEAKER_02]: against each other.
26:03.416 --> 26:08.401
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't get a chance to go deeper, but I didn't want to miss the opportunity to talk about culture, right?
26:08.882 --> 26:17.230
[SPEAKER_02]: Many times we work with people from different countries, even within the U.S., diverse, e-migrant.
26:17.710 --> 26:20.273
[SPEAKER_02]: I am an e-migrant, and I work with so many different people.
26:20.733 --> 26:31.684
[SPEAKER_02]: In many times, I think that culture is not taking consideration as one of the issues or
26:31.664 --> 26:45.056
[SPEAKER_02]: Many times, there is an alignment, but there is a difference in culture itself, that people like, oh, I forgot your Brazil and all and that's what you do this and that's why you talked with your hands also and etc.
26:45.737 --> 26:53.344
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think many times you have a cultural difference and not exactly non-necessarily a misalignment issue.
26:53.785 --> 26:54.846
[SPEAKER_02]: So how does he play?
26:54.946 --> 26:58.549
[SPEAKER_02]: How have you seen this
26:59.035 --> 27:00.937
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, thank you so much for asking.
27:00.957 --> 27:01.938
[SPEAKER_00]: I love this conversation.
27:01.998 --> 27:04.180
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so rare that people want to talk about it.
27:04.900 --> 27:06.342
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I'm a triple immigrant.
27:06.382 --> 27:14.589
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a graded from Soviet Ukraine to China, I speak Mandarin fluently and I live in Shanghai, then to United States, so I'm an American, and now to France.
27:15.050 --> 27:18.693
[SPEAKER_00]: So like three different countries, totally different.
27:19.534 --> 27:22.136
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I knew to adapt and learn and build businesses.
27:22.176 --> 27:23.998
[SPEAKER_00]: I build several businesses across these countries.
27:24.738 --> 27:26.460
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there are two things.
27:26.440 --> 27:47.082
[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, yes, remembering that this is a person from different culture and mostly remembering you are from different culture, so put in back your card on the table up front, so I will say I'm a Ukrainian or I've lived so many years in China, and so this affected me, this is how it affected me, you might notice.
27:48.007 --> 27:53.578
[SPEAKER_00]: that I behave this way, it's because of my background and I would like to keep it in our relationship.
27:53.658 --> 27:54.480
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that okay for you?
27:54.540 --> 27:55.682
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you feel about that?
27:56.403 --> 28:10.791
[SPEAKER_00]: So it means, and then it's late and that when we communicate, I will use my hands or for Asian people, so many people, Chinese people who work in the States, they do not translate, they do not talk about how I contact, it's not obvious for them.
28:10.771 --> 28:12.273
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't mean that they don't trust you.
28:12.774 --> 28:15.578
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just that they've been told that it's not polite to look people in the eye.
28:16.239 --> 28:23.390
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just not something that they've been told while somebody from Latin America, if you don't look them in the eye for a long time, like are you hiding something?
28:23.410 --> 28:24.131
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right?
28:24.171 --> 28:26.194
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how we don't even know, right?
28:26.214 --> 28:29.078
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know how to connect with that person if you don't see their eyes.
28:29.780 --> 28:35.428
[SPEAKER_00]: And so remembering that, learning, because so many different cultures, we're learning about them and respecting.
28:36.029 --> 28:38.753
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet, at the same time, not stereotyping.
28:39.965 --> 28:54.840
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, because I also see a lot in business world, I see the other side of the Spangilum going to, oh, you are French, that means, let me, like I, for example, get a lot of, oh, I have an Eastern European girlfriend.
28:56.023 --> 28:58.108
[SPEAKER_00]: I know how you all are.
28:58.088 --> 28:59.331
[SPEAKER_00]: What does that even mean?
28:59.351 --> 29:01.956
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, first of all, congratulations.
29:02.217 --> 29:04.482
[SPEAKER_00]: It's time you repeat and go for an awesome, I'm sure.
29:04.502 --> 29:14.443
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe I'm a human being that has, I've been affected by the whole life, not just by the place where I was born, right?
29:14.423 --> 29:18.430
[SPEAKER_00]: And to you point in the United States, we have different cultures on the same street.
29:18.870 --> 29:23.658
[SPEAKER_00]: People are moving so much from the south of the United States, the north, right?
29:24.199 --> 29:28.466
[SPEAKER_00]: Cost to middle of the country, you already will have also those differences.
29:28.887 --> 29:32.373
[SPEAKER_00]: So also not saying, oh, you're from South Carolina.
29:32.473 --> 29:37.461
[SPEAKER_00]: I've had a neighbor from South Carolina, it means you're like that.
29:38.453 --> 29:44.879
[SPEAKER_00]: So also being sensitive on the other side to not over stereotyping over biased people because they have an accent.
29:46.361 --> 29:50.945
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they look similar to your girlfriend means that they also want flowers.
29:51.526 --> 29:55.430
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're just possible, but also checking on that.
29:55.770 --> 30:01.415
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, putting that card on the table, I like it when people tell me that they had an Instagram European girlfriend.
30:02.016 --> 30:05.119
[SPEAKER_00]: It means that I know they are stereotyping about me.
30:05.099 --> 30:06.903
[SPEAKER_00]: You see, so I like that disclosure.
30:06.963 --> 30:09.668
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I know what to tell them.
30:10.049 --> 30:13.315
[SPEAKER_00]: It's because, for example, they are, I will say, well, I've been independent.
30:13.475 --> 30:15.199
[SPEAKER_00]: I've left when I was 17 years old.
30:15.800 --> 30:19.988
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm actually overcorrecting on independence.
30:20.008 --> 30:24.036
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so just know, so they know that, like, don't tell me what to do.
30:24.016 --> 30:35.628
[SPEAKER_00]: So, what are the stereotypes about your culture, your accent, and disclose it and opening those cards in the conversation so that you don't step on it on the other side of, you know, over correcting.
30:36.289 --> 30:36.949
[SPEAKER_02]: I love this.
30:37.170 --> 30:45.018
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we can continue talking about it so much, especially among everything that is going on in the world right now.
30:45.558 --> 30:50.884
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we're more alike than what we are different.
30:51.286 --> 30:58.780
[SPEAKER_02]: and I think what you're saying keep the connection as the the goal of a conversation.
30:59.321 --> 31:00.443
[SPEAKER_02]: Am I connected with you?
31:00.543 --> 31:01.665
[SPEAKER_02]: Are we both present?
31:01.745 --> 31:04.370
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to double check every single connection that I have.
31:04.410 --> 31:05.652
[SPEAKER_02]: Now people are screwed.
31:05.672 --> 31:06.654
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to double check.
31:07.656 --> 31:09.379
[SPEAKER_02]: Are we, are we here?
31:09.359 --> 31:10.160
[SPEAKER_02]: Mind and so.
31:10.221 --> 31:10.842
[SPEAKER_02]: Where are we here?
31:10.962 --> 31:11.483
[SPEAKER_02]: Are we here?
31:11.743 --> 31:12.224
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you here?
31:12.445 --> 31:12.885
[SPEAKER_02]: My here?
31:13.006 --> 31:13.667
[SPEAKER_02]: We're all here.
31:14.709 --> 31:20.179
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think that's a fair request to make, because I want to connect with people.
31:20.800 --> 31:22.543
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think they want to connect with me.
31:22.603 --> 31:27.051
[SPEAKER_02]: They also don't want to, my walls go up and everybody goes up.
31:27.111 --> 31:28.634
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to connect with real people.
31:29.075 --> 31:31.439
[SPEAKER_02]: I usually say that I don't like a lot of people.
31:31.760 --> 31:33.122
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is the truth.
31:33.102 --> 31:40.851
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that my disclaimer is that I don't like when there is a mask, when there's people are not comfortable being themselves.
31:41.492 --> 31:44.335
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm apologetically, because then I cannot know them.
31:44.375 --> 31:47.459
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's misopportunity.
31:47.539 --> 31:52.044
[SPEAKER_02]: I might like your real version versus this version that you're putting up.
31:52.064 --> 31:55.869
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think with social media, people put a lot of versions out there.
31:55.889 --> 31:59.413
[SPEAKER_02]: And then
31:59.663 --> 32:02.928
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, who would the real person actually is?
32:03.609 --> 32:11.862
[SPEAKER_02]: So Anna, you shared that you're coming up with a new book that is launching very soon.
32:11.942 --> 32:12.963
[SPEAKER_02]: Tell me more about it.
32:13.784 --> 32:15.227
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's actually just arrived.
32:15.327 --> 32:17.290
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for giving me the opportunity.
32:17.570 --> 32:20.475
[SPEAKER_00]: I just unboxed it for this.
32:20.495 --> 32:23.359
[SPEAKER_00]: So the book is called Love and Conflict.
32:23.339 --> 32:27.165
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be available on March 31st.
32:27.185 --> 32:34.618
[SPEAKER_00]: It's only soft cover because I wanted to write a book that people carry with them, open it on the plane on a train, you know, just very easy.
32:34.838 --> 32:39.205
[SPEAKER_00]: It's half-memor, half my framework of how to love conflict and fight kinder.
32:39.185 --> 32:56.974
[SPEAKER_00]: My goal is that if you are conflict avoidant, if you hit it, if you are not, if you stop loving someone or stop being in a communication with somebody you love, because you have a difference of opinion, political beliefs, lifestyle, I hope that you read this and then you know what to do, how to call them.
32:56.954 --> 32:59.697
[SPEAKER_00]: and how to invite them for that curbside blunch.
33:00.258 --> 33:05.704
[SPEAKER_00]: And I tell about my travels and how I adopted in China and in San Francisco and now in Paris.
33:05.744 --> 33:08.908
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's hard to have those conversations.
33:08.988 --> 33:11.591
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that this is not a happy, very happy subject.
33:11.611 --> 33:17.517
[SPEAKER_00]: So I tried to make it as fun and engaging as possible so that people will relax and dance with me.
33:17.798 --> 33:18.158
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
33:19.059 --> 33:22.523
[SPEAKER_02]: Now I have a different perspective about the Institute of Tangle.
33:22.503 --> 33:25.227
[SPEAKER_02]: I do, and I won't change face on what you said.
33:25.267 --> 33:39.908
[SPEAKER_02]: So on a thank you so much for spending the time and having those conversations, I think the women in our community appreciate going there and talk about it, because that's what they, they feel in a daily basis.
33:39.928 --> 33:43.193
[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you so much for your time and sharing your story with us.
33:44.134 --> 33:45.456
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for inviting me.
33:47.140 --> 33:48.222
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for listening.
33:48.483 --> 33:51.690
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope you've found today's conversation valuable.
33:52.111 --> 33:55.740
[SPEAKER_02]: And don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes.
33:56.341 --> 33:59.068
[SPEAKER_02]: And show this with a women in your life, Benny Sue here.
33:59.088 --> 34:01.032
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll see you next week.
00:00.031 --> 00:02.534
[SPEAKER_02]: Today, we're talking about conflict.
00:02.975 --> 00:07.281
[SPEAKER_02]: We live in the world where teams are spread across cities and countries.
00:07.762 --> 00:18.196
[SPEAKER_02]: What seems to be a misalignment, it might actually be a difference in communication style, expectation, or cultural norm.
00:18.677 --> 00:21.200
[SPEAKER_02]: The real question is, how do we know the difference?
00:21.741 --> 00:26.207
[SPEAKER_02]: And how can we handle it in a way that creates connection?
00:26.187 --> 00:29.192
[SPEAKER_02]: In today's episode, I have Anna Lycott.
00:29.672 --> 00:33.077
[SPEAKER_02]: She has built multiple business across different countries.
00:33.538 --> 00:38.706
[SPEAKER_02]: And today, she works with leaders on conflict and communication.
00:39.327 --> 00:40.208
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get started.
00:42.953 --> 00:46.758
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Real Estate Investor podcast.
00:46.778 --> 00:51.506
[SPEAKER_01]: A top 1% show helping women achieve financial freedom by investing in real estate.
00:51.526 --> 00:55.131
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, your host, Liz Faircloth and Andresda Gidelli.
00:55.685 --> 01:10.656
[SPEAKER_02]: Many real estate investors avoid conflict for different reasons, but during a webinar, the number one reason they told me they avoid having a difficult conversation is because they don't want to make things worse.
01:11.058 --> 01:12.823
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's talk about it.
01:13.063 --> 01:23.712
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the next step on it when you're looking at a situation and you know you need to have that conversation, but you actually don't want to because you don't feel comfortable doing that.
01:24.073 --> 01:26.620
[SPEAKER_02]: What would just say to that person listening to us?
01:26.600 --> 01:27.521
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for asking.
01:27.561 --> 01:31.164
[SPEAKER_00]: And just let's remember, we all paid conflict.
01:31.284 --> 01:46.258
[SPEAKER_00]: We grew up in culture that teaches us to avoid conflict that loving someone means keeping the peace, making things smooth, avoiding it, and most of us were told, okay, you have a hard conversation, just absorb it all, and then let keep the peace.
01:46.898 --> 01:56.607
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like that also as per review and many listeners that I would rehearse 40 times how I'm going to start it, and then when the
01:56.587 --> 01:59.512
[SPEAKER_00]: So, the first thing is to remember, we all like, I like that.
01:59.973 --> 02:03.961
[SPEAKER_00]: Very few people love a door, just can't wait to have a hard conversation.
02:04.001 --> 02:06.185
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it's a self-knowledge, right?
02:06.526 --> 02:12.176
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also know in how do you specifically react when you are trying to, with the hard conversation, do you freeze?
02:12.497 --> 02:13.719
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you run away?
02:13.739 --> 02:15.282
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you get defensive?
02:15.322 --> 02:15.943
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you attack?
02:16.144 --> 02:18.949
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is all, all these are not useful.
02:18.929 --> 02:29.606
[SPEAKER_00]: And then what's important to remember is that in front of you is another human being with the same or similar fears, the same our similar values because those are all intrinsic to us as human beings.
02:30.027 --> 02:33.232
[SPEAKER_00]: So they also care about being seen, being witnessed, being loved.
02:34.054 --> 02:36.718
[SPEAKER_00]: They also want to have a feeling of belonging.
02:36.698 --> 02:41.024
[SPEAKER_00]: they want to have a connection with you and they want to be acknowledged and validated.
02:41.344 --> 02:46.951
[SPEAKER_00]: So just remembering that getting the focus from you onto them and remembering that they are the human being.
02:47.192 --> 02:49.314
[SPEAKER_00]: So whatever it is that you need to do to remember.
02:49.415 --> 02:59.027
[SPEAKER_00]: So my hack, for example, if I have really am feeling resistant to connection, I will look at the person and I will imagine them as a five-year-old.
02:59.952 --> 03:04.978
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, like in our body, like I'm all about somatic processing and about our body and feeling our body.
03:05.578 --> 03:19.794
[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, if I look at you and I think about you as a five year old, in my body, there is this, Oh, like this, you know, like, oh, this person is like, is afraid of something or really wants to be seen.
03:19.854 --> 03:24.880
[SPEAKER_00]: And immediately, I'm softer, I'm kind of, I can be more deliberate.
03:24.860 --> 03:25.301
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
03:26.061 --> 03:27.844
[SPEAKER_00]: So you then first is remembering human being.
03:28.244 --> 03:30.086
[SPEAKER_00]: Another one is how do you listen?
03:31.128 --> 03:34.391
[SPEAKER_00]: Is the person experiencing being completely hurt?
03:35.092 --> 03:42.942
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's an art, and I teach that in my workshop, so it's the quality of listening, should be really am I ready to change my mind?
03:43.723 --> 03:48.268
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not preparing, I'm not preparing my answer while you're talking.
03:48.248 --> 03:55.478
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm listening to you fully and you know another hack there is letting people finish their sentences until the last word.
03:56.261 --> 03:58.832
[SPEAKER_00]: So we tend to help people speak.
03:58.930 --> 04:07.380
[SPEAKER_00]: And we will be like, if the person makes the polls and they're looking for that last word, we tend to stop them, interject something like, help them out, you know?
04:08.322 --> 04:14.129
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've practiced for a year, I give myself a practice, regular practice, of not finishing people sentences.
04:14.850 --> 04:19.335
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what, I have found out that what I was about to say,
04:19.315 --> 04:29.569
[SPEAKER_00]: was absolutely different direction where people were going, but because we have a confirmation bias, because we want to be agreeable, because we want we always prioritize connection.
04:29.649 --> 04:39.602
[SPEAKER_00]: People just know and they also feel bad that they are opposing, because in our culture, especially in the West, we are not supposed to stay quiet, silent with each other.
04:40.409 --> 04:42.752
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot to unpack there, Anna.
04:42.772 --> 04:46.215
[SPEAKER_02]: So I want to start with feeling heard, right?
04:46.796 --> 04:52.542
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes we paraphrase where the person is saying so we can get to like, is this what you said?
04:53.063 --> 05:01.051
[SPEAKER_02]: And they still feel that, no, that's not what I said and that you repeated again in different types of strategies.
05:01.572 --> 05:10.281
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure when people are in conversations, they want to feel that they're being heard
05:11.054 --> 05:12.677
[SPEAKER_02]: how do we make that happen?
05:12.797 --> 05:19.508
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that many times, like I hear you, I understand you, but the other person does not feel heard.
05:20.129 --> 05:22.673
[SPEAKER_02]: Where is the root cause of that disconnection?
05:23.154 --> 05:24.156
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for asking that.
05:25.157 --> 05:27.661
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think it's about a technique.
05:27.681 --> 05:29.104
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a communication technique.
05:29.484 --> 05:32.910
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's how conflict right now is taught.
05:32.890 --> 05:35.698
[SPEAKER_00]: that, oh, just say that, or just repeat back what they said.
05:36.300 --> 05:42.517
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we can trick people into getting an experience of being fully hurt.
05:43.119 --> 05:47.912
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the only way to do it is truly being ready to change your mind.
05:47.892 --> 05:50.656
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not faking it until you make it.
05:51.036 --> 05:57.526
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not okay if I rip it back Or if I say oh what I hear you say you know, there are all these tricks.
05:58.127 --> 06:14.710
[SPEAKER_00]: No because if you really in your mind already know their own There's nothing they can say that will change your mind and you're just trying to manipulate them into getting them to the right place If this is why you're there, it's not going to work
06:15.314 --> 06:18.740
[SPEAKER_00]: Even the best of people who teach it, they don't, they don't achieve it.
06:19.382 --> 06:24.792
[SPEAKER_00]: People feel, and I think we, we underestimate how much people feel.
06:25.333 --> 06:35.291
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, all my work comes from tango dancing, I'm a tango dancer, and I teach conflict, through dancing, through somatic movement.
06:35.311 --> 06:36.934
[SPEAKER_00]: And in tango, we don't speak.
06:38.129 --> 06:39.811
[SPEAKER_00]: We are very close to each other, right?
06:39.851 --> 06:43.656
[SPEAKER_00]: We really feel each other's bodies, because it's a fully improvised dance.
06:44.257 --> 06:52.788
[SPEAKER_00]: And the only way to follow and lead is to fully listen with our whole body to what is the experience of the person who is in our arms.
06:53.429 --> 07:00.197
[SPEAKER_00]: We can feel and hear the breathing, like the external is breathing, you know, nerve shaking, we can all feel it.
07:00.698 --> 07:05.284
[SPEAKER_00]: But then there is also the intuition, intuitive part of how they feel in.
07:05.264 --> 07:08.349
[SPEAKER_00]: at the nervous right now really, like are they confident?
07:08.790 --> 07:09.851
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they open to me?
07:10.312 --> 07:11.294
[SPEAKER_00]: Do they want to go slow?
07:11.314 --> 07:12.295
[SPEAKER_00]: Do they want to go fast?
07:12.536 --> 07:13.778
[SPEAKER_00]: And I dance both roles.
07:14.018 --> 07:16.582
[SPEAKER_00]: So I also feel for, do they want to initiate?
07:16.623 --> 07:17.684
[SPEAKER_00]: Or do they want to surrender?
07:17.744 --> 07:19.788
[SPEAKER_00]: Do they want to lead or follow?
07:19.948 --> 07:22.452
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, because I switch between leading and following.
07:23.073 --> 07:27.981
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's really going back to the conflict if you're faking it.
07:27.961 --> 07:31.266
[SPEAKER_00]: and you are trying to lead them to your conclusion.
07:32.288 --> 07:35.173
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a conversation and you don't have permission for that conversation.
07:35.193 --> 07:37.156
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it so much.
07:37.857 --> 07:40.081
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a very high bar for conversations.
07:40.542 --> 07:46.932
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I'm not ready to change my mind, if I can speak a lot with people who have different political views,
07:46.912 --> 07:49.756
[SPEAKER_00]: who are very anti, whatever I represent.
07:49.796 --> 07:59.550
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm Jewish, I speak with anti-syments, open racist, man who think women has to stay in a kitchen and never do anything on her own.
07:59.610 --> 08:06.019
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm also Ukrainian and Ukrainian is at war and I will speak to Russian people even if they are pro-war.
08:06.500 --> 08:08.903
[SPEAKER_00]: This is practice every day for me.
08:08.883 --> 08:15.177
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I'm not ready to change my mind to something that is so unacceptable to me, I will say it.
08:15.278 --> 08:16.881
[SPEAKER_00]: I will put that card on the table.
08:17.463 --> 08:18.525
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
08:18.545 --> 08:23.537
[SPEAKER_02]: Can we go there in terms of changing our mind by the way I love?
08:23.717 --> 08:26.824
[SPEAKER_02]: I never thought about the concept of tango as a...
08:26.804 --> 08:35.454
[SPEAKER_02]: the same thing on the when you're having a conflict and I think really starting by sharing Hey, this is uncomfortable to me.
08:35.474 --> 08:45.885
[SPEAKER_02]: I never I don't like to do this, but bear with me as I process with you Just like putting the cards right there same as a person dancey.
08:45.925 --> 08:51.311
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, this is my first time during Tango I actually don't know how to navigate this bear with me.
08:51.371 --> 08:56.457
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's create something but you you are talking about being ready to change our minds
08:56.437 --> 08:59.884
[SPEAKER_02]: How do we evaluate if, let's start with ourselves, right?
09:00.506 --> 09:03.833
[SPEAKER_02]: How do I know if I'm ready to change my mind?
09:03.893 --> 09:10.447
[SPEAKER_02]: Or like, I'm asking very like, how would somebody that is listening now know for sure?
09:10.487 --> 09:13.213
[SPEAKER_02]: She's ready to change her mind.
09:13.193 --> 09:14.654
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's great.
09:14.935 --> 09:17.977
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for bringing it to very practical steps.
09:18.058 --> 09:19.999
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that and I'm always you.
09:20.019 --> 09:21.781
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's how the conversation should be.
09:22.502 --> 09:25.424
[SPEAKER_00]: So practically, it's about intellectual humility.
09:25.945 --> 09:28.487
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about it's okay to be wrong.
09:29.468 --> 09:31.210
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is very hard for us, right?
09:31.250 --> 09:32.731
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we like to be right.
09:33.672 --> 09:36.875
[SPEAKER_00]: And so for that, I personally keep the goal.
09:37.055 --> 09:42.120
[SPEAKER_00]: My ultimate goal is the connection with another human
09:42.961 --> 09:49.510
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I am going in and I am trying to manipulate them into voting for my party, it's not a conversation.
09:50.452 --> 09:54.017
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to go in and say, and I've talked to many people who campaign.
09:54.497 --> 10:06.094
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that the most successful people who campaign, they're the ones who will knock on somebody's door, because they want to make a friend, not because they want that person to vote for them, or for their party.
10:06.835 --> 10:08.457
[SPEAKER_00]: So what is your intention here?
10:08.798 --> 10:10.400
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to maintain this friendship?
10:10.420 --> 10:11.922
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to keep speaking to your mother?
10:13.302 --> 10:15.525
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want the love to continue and grow?
10:15.705 --> 10:16.666
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you want to be right?
10:17.687 --> 10:18.749
[SPEAKER_00]: So you check your intention.
10:20.311 --> 10:24.196
[SPEAKER_00]: And then another part is constantly knowing where you are at.
10:24.236 --> 10:28.701
[SPEAKER_00]: And there is a lot of work on self knowledge and knowing where your body is at.
10:29.662 --> 10:34.589
[SPEAKER_00]: To notice early on, if you are getting overfluttered if something triggers you.
10:35.249 --> 10:38.213
[SPEAKER_00]: So I, for example, know my triggers really well.
10:39.087 --> 10:53.410
[SPEAKER_00]: I watch myself carefully, and I know there are aspects of life, of values that if it's touched, if somebody threatens that value, I get so overflatted that I cannot be deliberate anymore.
10:53.991 --> 10:58.198
[SPEAKER_00]: I know them, and I disclose them upfront so people who don't know me.
10:58.559 --> 11:04.268
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, somehow, for whatever reason, I cannot stand being told what to do.
11:05.446 --> 11:09.131
[SPEAKER_00]: the way I grew up, and I worked with my therapist on it for a long time, I'm working on it.
11:09.431 --> 11:14.959
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I overflowed easier than most people, like don't you tell me what to do?
11:15.359 --> 11:16.400
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot be deliberate.
11:16.701 --> 11:24.331
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I'm driving a car and somebody's in the passenger's seat next to me and they do not know me, I tell them before we start the drive.
11:25.192 --> 11:27.856
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, like I want us to be friends at the end of the drive.
11:29.398 --> 11:32.702
[SPEAKER_00]: I love you, I respect you, and I have this thing.
11:32.682 --> 11:51.216
[SPEAKER_00]: So please, do not tell me to turn right to, if unless, unless there is danger and then just say slow down, stop poles like be very concrete with what I need to do and very clean, no passive aggressive, no sarcastic, do not joke about my driving.
11:51.697 --> 11:52.058
[SPEAKER_00]: Like,
11:52.038 --> 12:08.865
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I'm very important and then I will be enjoying the drive and we'll have a great conversation I'll be focused right so I open my cards again like it's back to I like this idea of a I have a blueprint There is like a blueprint of math I give you two people like if it's a new friendship
12:08.845 --> 12:10.869
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say, I don't like to be ignored.
12:11.049 --> 12:11.990
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like quite a queen.
12:12.031 --> 12:15.437
[SPEAKER_00]: So I will say, you know, and it's honest.
12:16.478 --> 12:17.160
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that.
12:17.320 --> 12:20.766
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel that then I get to know you and you get to know me.
12:20.786 --> 12:26.816
[SPEAKER_02]: I am more interesting that type of relationship versus people wearing masks and keep their cards to themselves.
12:26.876 --> 12:28.339
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not fun.
12:28.319 --> 12:29.080
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not fun.
12:29.140 --> 12:43.681
[SPEAKER_00]: It also takes a long time to be attached and fall in love with each other or have fun together or have collaboration because you have to learn about me for years and years and then I change because we change every day and then you have to keep learning and I'm a friend.
12:43.761 --> 12:46.225
[SPEAKER_00]: Even something changes, I update the software.
12:46.245 --> 12:48.568
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I say, oh, you know, this new thing showed up.
12:49.029 --> 12:50.010
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to be my friend.
12:50.531 --> 12:54.597
[SPEAKER_00]: I easily think that you ignore me if you don't reply to me within a few days.
12:54.577 --> 13:01.846
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, of course, okay, I'm glad I'm glad to know, but it's not of course for many people.
13:01.866 --> 13:03.388
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, yeah.
13:03.408 --> 13:04.149
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad.
13:04.169 --> 13:04.449
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad.
13:04.530 --> 13:06.612
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, like for example, I have a thing about alcohol.
13:07.233 --> 13:11.558
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the way you're grabbed and Soviet Union, alcohol was danger, meant danger.
13:12.339 --> 13:19.909
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't drink, and I will say if we go, if I'm going out, I will tell people with me.
13:19.889 --> 13:22.794
[SPEAKER_00]: that I don't like being around people who start to slur.
13:23.355 --> 13:29.225
[SPEAKER_00]: If they've reached a level with slur in the curse, I will leave a minute before.
13:29.245 --> 13:33.232
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want, let's talk about it now, because it's not about you.
13:33.252 --> 13:33.913
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
13:34.013 --> 13:35.255
[SPEAKER_02]: I curse without drinking.
13:35.335 --> 13:36.277
[SPEAKER_02]: I also don't drink.
13:36.297 --> 13:36.998
[SPEAKER_02]: What I curse?
13:37.399 --> 13:38.621
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
13:38.641 --> 13:38.901
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
13:38.921 --> 13:40.564
[SPEAKER_00]: That's better, not curse.
13:40.544 --> 13:41.546
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay.
13:41.787 --> 13:42.869
[SPEAKER_00]: No cursing all the boots.
13:42.989 --> 13:43.690
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay.
13:43.971 --> 13:48.601
[SPEAKER_00]: You probably somebody speaks and then this don't speak clearly You know, okay, all right.
13:48.701 --> 13:51.527
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but because slurring cursing is great.
13:51.807 --> 13:59.042
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, all right Lurring for me is something that it signals to me that the person is not clear anymore in their mind
13:59.309 --> 14:02.814
[SPEAKER_00]: and that they might not be remembering this conversation tomorrow.
14:03.274 --> 14:04.996
[SPEAKER_00]: They cannot be deliberate anymore.
14:05.477 --> 14:07.440
[SPEAKER_00]: It's signals danger to my system.
14:07.560 --> 14:08.221
[SPEAKER_00]: It's nothing.
14:08.241 --> 14:09.823
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not detrimental about them.
14:09.883 --> 14:12.106
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not criticizing their lifestyle.
14:12.126 --> 14:14.108
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying, I need to get out.
14:14.168 --> 14:16.031
[SPEAKER_00]: It's my boundary and I will tell them a friend.
14:16.051 --> 14:17.973
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like that in a conflict too.
14:18.234 --> 14:19.075
[SPEAKER_00]: Cars on a table.
14:19.155 --> 14:19.936
[SPEAKER_00]: This is who I am.
14:20.476 --> 14:21.097
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
14:21.518 --> 14:23.080
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll share one of my cards.
14:23.480 --> 14:23.741
[SPEAKER_02]: Please.
14:23.961 --> 14:24.762
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to ask you.
14:24.962 --> 14:25.583
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh god.
14:25.984 --> 14:28.607
[SPEAKER_02]: You and all the women that are listening.
14:28.587 --> 14:51.827
[SPEAKER_02]: So one of my my cards is when I'm speaking with somebody about let's say we are going on a meeting to talk about very specific subject and then the other person starts talking but they start talking as if they didn't think about it before they didn't process it and they're what I call they have an open brain.
14:51.807 --> 15:01.902
[SPEAKER_02]: They are talking as they are processing it, and he feels that they are like literally vomiting all their thoughts together, to me, and it takes.
15:02.388 --> 15:07.999
[SPEAKER_02]: a long time for them to get to the point that they want to make.
15:09.061 --> 15:10.924
[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't work for me.
15:11.445 --> 15:15.634
[SPEAKER_02]: What I have a rule with people is like, see where you're at.
15:16.014 --> 15:17.477
[SPEAKER_02]: What are your known negotiables?
15:17.577 --> 15:18.740
[SPEAKER_02]: Check with yourself.
15:18.840 --> 15:20.743
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have an opinion about something?
15:21.144 --> 15:22.607
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it like a...
15:22.587 --> 15:24.088
[SPEAKER_02]: cannot have ten on something.
15:24.108 --> 15:25.089
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't have it.
15:25.690 --> 15:29.473
[SPEAKER_02]: What are the most important things that you want to accomplish?
15:29.914 --> 15:33.056
[SPEAKER_02]: What are the details that you want to leave out of this conversation?
15:33.337 --> 15:34.938
[SPEAKER_02]: Would you are trying to get out of it?
15:35.799 --> 15:46.468
[SPEAKER_02]: But when we have like half an hour to have this conversation and then the person go into a rampage and jump from one subject to the other, I'm like, not lost.
15:48.150 --> 15:50.552
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know
15:50.684 --> 15:56.121
[SPEAKER_02]: that really doesn't work for me and it has nothing to do with the person he has to do with me.
15:56.182 --> 16:02.221
[SPEAKER_02]: How I value time and how I respect people's time.
16:02.261 --> 16:04.187
[SPEAKER_02]: For me,
16:04.690 --> 16:08.176
[SPEAKER_02]: I come from Brazil, I am an immigrant many times.
16:08.236 --> 16:16.852
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't get a second chance to make a point, to get a job or to sell myself or to try again on this scholarship.
16:16.872 --> 16:23.965
[SPEAKER_02]: I had one chance and I had to come really prepared for that interview for that opportunity.
16:23.945 --> 16:26.649
[SPEAKER_02]: and I couldn't waste my time.
16:26.829 --> 16:32.978
[SPEAKER_02]: So I had to do this, this work to kind of go back and it's not about the other person.
16:33.019 --> 16:34.661
[SPEAKER_02]: They can express how they feel.
16:34.701 --> 16:43.955
[SPEAKER_02]: But for me, I think, is my connection with time because I don't have time to waste and I don't think other people have it.
16:43.995 --> 16:46.138
[SPEAKER_02]: But I look at
16:46.118 --> 16:47.982
[SPEAKER_02]: as single opportunities.
16:48.844 --> 16:51.449
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's make the best out of it and come prepared.
16:51.850 --> 16:55.678
[SPEAKER_02]: So people not coming with their thoughts straight.
16:56.279 --> 17:03.655
[SPEAKER_02]: It feels to me that they did not put the effort into it as I am putting.
17:03.635 --> 17:04.416
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
17:04.757 --> 17:05.578
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
17:05.598 --> 17:07.922
[SPEAKER_00]: And can I offer something more to them?
17:08.002 --> 17:08.302
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
17:09.264 --> 17:12.889
[SPEAKER_00]: So in tango, you know how they say it takes two to tango.
17:13.350 --> 17:14.071
[SPEAKER_00]: Throw it, yeah.
17:14.853 --> 17:18.518
[SPEAKER_00]: And so usually people think it takes two to tango, means it takes two people, right?
17:18.558 --> 17:20.041
[SPEAKER_00]: We use it in that instance.
17:20.061 --> 17:20.241
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:20.842 --> 17:24.187
[SPEAKER_00]: Teach her my tango teacher, Veronica Tumano, but she said it differently.
17:24.227 --> 17:27.532
[SPEAKER_00]: She says that takes two to tango, means two connections.
17:28.253 --> 17:31.819
[SPEAKER_00]: One with myself and another connection with the other person.
17:32.744 --> 17:38.592
[SPEAKER_00]: For that, I need to be fully present for myself, where is my access?
17:38.832 --> 17:39.714
[SPEAKER_00]: Where are my feet?
17:40.415 --> 17:41.356
[SPEAKER_00]: How am I feeling?
17:41.736 --> 17:43.178
[SPEAKER_00]: Where am I centered?
17:43.359 --> 17:45.682
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, am I planted on the floor?
17:46.343 --> 17:47.184
[SPEAKER_00]: How am I feeling?
17:47.284 --> 17:49.647
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I hungry, lonely, angry, tired?
17:50.388 --> 17:53.512
[SPEAKER_00]: How do I feel about the music, the floor, the other person?
17:53.673 --> 17:55.335
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the connection with that person?
17:55.856 --> 17:59.781
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I'm guessing what you are experiencing in those moments.
17:59.761 --> 18:03.988
[SPEAKER_00]: moments when people are not fully there, they're not fully clear.
18:04.129 --> 18:06.593
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not necessarily about their logical preparation.
18:07.234 --> 18:11.922
[SPEAKER_00]: I bet you would enjoy talking to someone on the fly without preparation.
18:12.383 --> 18:14.266
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not only that fully there.
18:14.426 --> 18:16.650
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really a limbic system experience.
18:17.051 --> 18:18.293
[SPEAKER_00]: We know.
18:18.273 --> 18:30.787
[SPEAKER_00]: When the other person is not present, we know deeply and it's very loud even I would say more loudly in women because we had to pay more attention to it as we were socialized and the world is dangerous.
18:31.188 --> 18:35.733
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have to really pay attention to what is the state of the person in front of me.
18:36.634 --> 18:47.166
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you probably feel unsafe and it's really irritating to you when somebody is not fully
18:48.344 --> 18:54.412
[SPEAKER_00]: But even if they were able to stay logical and prepared, but the thoughts were somewhere else.
18:54.432 --> 18:58.377
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they were experiencing something different and they were not fully focused on you.
18:58.797 --> 19:00.119
[SPEAKER_00]: You would be highly irritated.
19:00.920 --> 19:01.180
[SPEAKER_02]: Cool.
19:02.402 --> 19:06.267
[SPEAKER_02]: And my business partner, Liz and I, we have been business partners for 10 years.
19:06.627 --> 19:11.393
[SPEAKER_02]: And we really invested in ourselves in getting to know ourselves.
19:11.814 --> 19:13.296
[SPEAKER_02]: We know each other's triggers.
19:13.937 --> 19:16.680
[SPEAKER_02]: And an agreement that we made,
19:16.660 --> 19:21.969
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that when I can tell she's triggered or I can tell she can tell that I am triggered.
19:22.911 --> 19:28.340
[SPEAKER_02]: We take a step outside to regulate versus to continue something.
19:28.480 --> 19:30.424
[SPEAKER_02]: As you mentioned, I'm coming out of my game.
19:30.464 --> 19:39.900
[SPEAKER_02]: So for the women that are listening, right when they are in a heated argument or in recurring conflicts,
19:40.707 --> 19:47.478
[SPEAKER_02]: How do we get out of this cycle of talking about, oh, I would talk to him about it.
19:47.639 --> 19:51.926
[SPEAKER_02]: Contractors, let's say, I already like the repetitive conflicts.
19:52.266 --> 19:55.672
[SPEAKER_02]: How do we get to the real root cause of it?
19:55.893 --> 19:59.138
[SPEAKER_02]: And what is it teaching us if it is,
19:59.118 --> 20:00.541
[SPEAKER_02]: repeating over and over again.
20:00.581 --> 20:02.345
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
20:02.365 --> 20:06.374
[SPEAKER_00]: And to say, I want to first address what you said before was your business partner first of all is beautiful.
20:06.454 --> 20:09.621
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it when people work for a long time and how well they know each other.
20:09.641 --> 20:15.895
[SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that you, if one of you gets triggered, you step out, I want to address that point first if you don't mind.
20:15.875 --> 20:16.937
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's absolutely.
20:17.498 --> 20:20.583
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've heard this as taught by conflict people do that.
20:20.743 --> 20:21.925
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I take a pose?
20:21.945 --> 20:26.393
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've been teaching it also, but then in last couple of years I've been trying to not do that.
20:26.894 --> 20:32.724
[SPEAKER_00]: And stay in because I'm really practicing staying and, you know, all my work is about stay in the tension.
20:33.305 --> 20:34.407
[SPEAKER_00]: Because
20:34.387 --> 20:38.333
[SPEAKER_00]: Usually, when we're in attention, it's because something big got triggered in us.
20:38.574 --> 20:41.438
[SPEAKER_00]: Fear, value, something that's non-negotiable.
20:41.559 --> 20:46.466
[SPEAKER_00]: And to find that non-negotiable and to talk about it with the person in front of you is gold.
20:47.448 --> 20:59.247
[SPEAKER_00]: Because when the other person sees us, disclose now fear or our value or our love to them, they will trust us because they will recognize us as another human being, and they will stand up for us.
20:59.227 --> 21:03.976
[SPEAKER_00]: and help us out because they now love us, they now see us, they now trust us.
21:04.737 --> 21:12.692
[SPEAKER_00]: And so those moments that we really in our culture say, you know, just step away, step away, come down by yourself and then come back and peace.
21:12.992 --> 21:17.180
[SPEAKER_02]: I say, no, I agree with that and let me clarify because I probably didn't.
21:17.741 --> 21:23.091
[SPEAKER_02]: So we take a pause on the subject itself and we address the trigger.
21:23.071 --> 21:36.090
[SPEAKER_02]: So we, we process it together before you would take a long time for us to process, but right now we have a literally like a one page, how do we get to the, the root cause, but we put the subject that we were discussing aside.
21:36.150 --> 21:39.675
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we address what we're seeing.
21:39.735 --> 21:41.738
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, it seems that
21:41.718 --> 21:42.499
[SPEAKER_02]: your trigger.
21:42.559 --> 21:43.520
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's go there.
21:43.560 --> 21:44.962
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see what's coming up for you.
21:45.002 --> 21:47.285
[SPEAKER_02]: We usually say that what's what's coming up for you?
21:47.305 --> 21:50.449
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we would kind of like put it aside.
21:50.509 --> 21:52.151
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but we don't we don't go away.
21:52.211 --> 21:54.253
[SPEAKER_02]: We we we we we we okay.
21:54.273 --> 21:54.414
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
21:54.994 --> 21:55.275
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
21:55.295 --> 21:55.475
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
21:55.495 --> 21:55.675
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
21:56.056 --> 22:01.422
[SPEAKER_00]: Because also because I see that I heard a tot and seminars, you know, step away.
22:01.522 --> 22:03.364
[SPEAKER_00]: I think opposed come back to kill yourself.
22:03.385 --> 22:04.005
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not for me.
22:04.065 --> 22:04.686
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think.
22:04.886 --> 22:05.447
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
22:05.427 --> 22:07.590
[SPEAKER_02]: I would like to rebeam them the boat.
22:08.111 --> 22:09.112
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say you, right?
22:09.853 --> 22:13.918
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's let's process it and get to the, you know, exactly.
22:13.978 --> 22:14.940
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's that's important.
22:14.960 --> 22:18.505
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's stay together in connection and hold my hands through this, right?
22:18.525 --> 22:26.355
[SPEAKER_00]: And also another thing that's very important, I think, with people who've been together for a long time, is not to become a friend therapist to the other person.
22:26.335 --> 22:43.585
[SPEAKER_00]: is always do I because you've just said, and I'm sorry, I'm just, I'm not, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just,
22:44.392 --> 22:47.777
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always, I think I'm a flood flood in here.
22:47.797 --> 23:03.818
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what you just said, I, I, I, because we, especially nowadays with AI with so many, there's so much content about psychology and therapy, people love being therapist through each other.
23:03.798 --> 23:16.761
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, oh, you know, I watch this short and I think you are doing this and they're talking about each other's attachment style and love languages and all, you know, and trauma and child of trauma and I'm always like,
23:17.315 --> 23:37.500
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, not that there have been a friend and yes, friends are there for processing as I think that as long as we are not playing the role that we would like to maybe do in life, but this is what's happening to me, right?
23:37.480 --> 23:44.375
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, a long time ago I learned that if I have an occurring conflict with someone, there is something for me to learn there.
23:44.415 --> 23:45.337
[SPEAKER_00]: Something is up.
23:45.798 --> 23:51.109
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lesson that the universe, whatever you want to call, whatever you believe exists, or just it's a chance.
23:51.169 --> 23:57.362
[SPEAKER_00]: It's coming to me to learn a lesson because this conflict keeps happening in my life.
23:57.342 --> 23:59.164
[SPEAKER_00]: while all the other issues are resolved.
23:59.604 --> 24:03.408
[SPEAKER_00]: So even more so, a chance to invite that person for lunch.
24:03.508 --> 24:06.350
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not about not when they're in front of their people, right?
24:06.651 --> 24:10.514
[SPEAKER_00]: It's to become tea coffee beer, whatever your cup of tea is.
24:11.375 --> 24:15.038
[SPEAKER_00]: And do I, again, hey, I am noticed.
24:15.218 --> 24:15.959
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so strange.
24:16.059 --> 24:17.881
[SPEAKER_00]: I love everything that's going on between us.
24:17.981 --> 24:19.202
[SPEAKER_00]: However, this is one thing.
24:19.763 --> 24:20.924
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't keep getting triggered.
24:20.944 --> 24:21.845
[SPEAKER_00]: It's something about me.
24:21.965 --> 24:23.466
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you be willing to sit with me?
24:24.007 --> 24:25.628
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, look into me.
24:25.608 --> 24:30.295
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not looking to you, and then another trick, again, trick, hack, whatever you want to say.
24:30.315 --> 24:37.826
[SPEAKER_00]: So for example, if I have a conversation with my husband with whom I have the most difficult conversations, like I think that the highest takes, the more difficult conversations, right?
24:38.487 --> 24:39.008
[SPEAKER_00]: I do this.
24:39.288 --> 24:48.282
[SPEAKER_00]: If we are in a restaurant, he's French and so he really loves like nice restaurant wine and wine, I don't even drink, so okay, water and wine for him.
24:48.862 --> 24:51.306
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, you know, sit like this and front of each other.
24:51.326 --> 24:51.987
[SPEAKER_00]: And
24:51.967 --> 25:02.948
[SPEAKER_00]: While I respect that ritual and in friends, you know, people are very serious about the ritual of how they eat, when I have a hard conversation to have with my husband, I will put a chair next to him.
25:02.968 --> 25:08.218
[SPEAKER_00]: And I will say, you and me have this problem.
25:10.202 --> 25:13.148
[SPEAKER_00]: So we together here, I team.
25:14.410 --> 25:16.194
[SPEAKER_00]: and for us there is this problem.
25:16.314 --> 25:18.660
[SPEAKER_00]: It's never you and me have a problem.
25:19.081 --> 25:30.787
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very difficult for bodies to understand if I am looking at you pointing at you, imagine in the third problem, but if we had to get the next to each other, so if the contractor can you bring a lunch and sit on a curb?
25:31.369 --> 25:32.892
[SPEAKER_00]: Next to each other?
25:33.361 --> 25:36.485
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you show even, it was your hands.
25:36.845 --> 25:41.571
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a problem, can we discuss together because you and me, we are team.
25:41.611 --> 25:44.494
[SPEAKER_00]: We can only succeed if we continue being a team.
25:45.195 --> 25:53.285
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, I love this so much because it's us against the problem, whatever that problem, but I like that you are maturizing it.
25:53.685 --> 25:56.849
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it your chair, is it a house, is it whatever that is?
25:56.929 --> 26:02.035
[SPEAKER_02]: So then every time that I look at that chair, then we're talking about the problem versus
26:02.015 --> 26:03.036
[SPEAKER_02]: against each other.
26:03.416 --> 26:08.401
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't get a chance to go deeper, but I didn't want to miss the opportunity to talk about culture, right?
26:08.882 --> 26:17.230
[SPEAKER_02]: Many times we work with people from different countries, even within the U.S., diverse, e-migrant.
26:17.710 --> 26:20.273
[SPEAKER_02]: I am an e-migrant, and I work with so many different people.
26:20.733 --> 26:31.684
[SPEAKER_02]: In many times, I think that culture is not taking consideration as one of the issues or
26:31.664 --> 26:45.056
[SPEAKER_02]: Many times, there is an alignment, but there is a difference in culture itself, that people like, oh, I forgot your Brazil and all and that's what you do this and that's why you talked with your hands also and etc.
26:45.737 --> 26:53.344
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think many times you have a cultural difference and not exactly non-necessarily a misalignment issue.
26:53.785 --> 26:54.846
[SPEAKER_02]: So how does he play?
26:54.946 --> 26:58.549
[SPEAKER_02]: How have you seen this
26:59.035 --> 27:00.937
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, thank you so much for asking.
27:00.957 --> 27:01.938
[SPEAKER_00]: I love this conversation.
27:01.998 --> 27:04.180
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so rare that people want to talk about it.
27:04.900 --> 27:06.342
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I'm a triple immigrant.
27:06.382 --> 27:14.589
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a graded from Soviet Ukraine to China, I speak Mandarin fluently and I live in Shanghai, then to United States, so I'm an American, and now to France.
27:15.050 --> 27:18.693
[SPEAKER_00]: So like three different countries, totally different.
27:19.534 --> 27:22.136
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I knew to adapt and learn and build businesses.
27:22.176 --> 27:23.998
[SPEAKER_00]: I build several businesses across these countries.
27:24.738 --> 27:26.460
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there are two things.
27:26.440 --> 27:47.082
[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, yes, remembering that this is a person from different culture and mostly remembering you are from different culture, so put in back your card on the table up front, so I will say I'm a Ukrainian or I've lived so many years in China, and so this affected me, this is how it affected me, you might notice.
27:48.007 --> 27:53.578
[SPEAKER_00]: that I behave this way, it's because of my background and I would like to keep it in our relationship.
27:53.658 --> 27:54.480
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that okay for you?
27:54.540 --> 27:55.682
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you feel about that?
27:56.403 --> 28:10.791
[SPEAKER_00]: So it means, and then it's late and that when we communicate, I will use my hands or for Asian people, so many people, Chinese people who work in the States, they do not translate, they do not talk about how I contact, it's not obvious for them.
28:10.771 --> 28:12.273
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't mean that they don't trust you.
28:12.774 --> 28:15.578
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just that they've been told that it's not polite to look people in the eye.
28:16.239 --> 28:23.390
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just not something that they've been told while somebody from Latin America, if you don't look them in the eye for a long time, like are you hiding something?
28:23.410 --> 28:24.131
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right?
28:24.171 --> 28:26.194
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how we don't even know, right?
28:26.214 --> 28:29.078
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know how to connect with that person if you don't see their eyes.
28:29.780 --> 28:35.428
[SPEAKER_00]: And so remembering that, learning, because so many different cultures, we're learning about them and respecting.
28:36.029 --> 28:38.753
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet, at the same time, not stereotyping.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, because I also see a lot in business world, I see the other side of the Spangilum going to, oh, you are French, that means, let me, like I, for example, get a lot of, oh, I have an Eastern European girlfriend.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I know how you all are.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What does that even mean?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, first of all, congratulations.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's time you repeat and go for an awesome, I'm sure.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe I'm a human being that has, I've been affected by the whole life, not just by the place where I was born, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And to you point in the United States, we have different cultures on the same street.
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[SPEAKER_00]: People are moving so much from the south of the United States, the north, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Cost to middle of the country, you already will have also those differences.
29:28.887 --> 29:32.373
[SPEAKER_00]: So also not saying, oh, you're from South Carolina.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I've had a neighbor from South Carolina, it means you're like that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So also being sensitive on the other side to not over stereotyping over biased people because they have an accent.
29:46.361 --> 29:50.945
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they look similar to your girlfriend means that they also want flowers.
29:51.526 --> 29:55.430
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're just possible, but also checking on that.
29:55.770 --> 30:01.415
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, putting that card on the table, I like it when people tell me that they had an Instagram European girlfriend.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It means that I know they are stereotyping about me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You see, so I like that disclosure.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then I know what to tell them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's because, for example, they are, I will say, well, I've been independent.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I've left when I was 17 years old.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm actually overcorrecting on independence.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so just know, so they know that, like, don't tell me what to do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, what are the stereotypes about your culture, your accent, and disclose it and opening those cards in the conversation so that you don't step on it on the other side of, you know, over correcting.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I love this.
30:37.170 --> 30:45.018
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we can continue talking about it so much, especially among everything that is going on in the world right now.
30:45.558 --> 30:50.884
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we're more alike than what we are different.
30:51.286 --> 30:58.780
[SPEAKER_02]: and I think what you're saying keep the connection as the the goal of a conversation.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Am I connected with you?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Are we both present?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to double check every single connection that I have.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Now people are screwed.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to double check.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Are we, are we here?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Mind and so.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Where are we here?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Are we here?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Are you here?
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[SPEAKER_02]: My here?
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[SPEAKER_02]: We're all here.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think that's a fair request to make, because I want to connect with people.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think they want to connect with me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They also don't want to, my walls go up and everybody goes up.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I want to connect with real people.
31:29.075 --> 31:31.439
[SPEAKER_02]: I usually say that I don't like a lot of people.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And that is the truth.
31:33.102 --> 31:40.851
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that my disclaimer is that I don't like when there is a mask, when there's people are not comfortable being themselves.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm apologetically, because then I cannot know them.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's misopportunity.
31:47.539 --> 31:52.044
[SPEAKER_02]: I might like your real version versus this version that you're putting up.
31:52.064 --> 31:55.869
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think with social media, people put a lot of versions out there.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then
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[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, who would the real person actually is?
32:03.609 --> 32:11.862
[SPEAKER_02]: So Anna, you shared that you're coming up with a new book that is launching very soon.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Tell me more about it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's actually just arrived.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for giving me the opportunity.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I just unboxed it for this.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So the book is called Love and Conflict.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be available on March 31st.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's only soft cover because I wanted to write a book that people carry with them, open it on the plane on a train, you know, just very easy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's half-memor, half my framework of how to love conflict and fight kinder.
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[SPEAKER_00]: My goal is that if you are conflict avoidant, if you hit it, if you are not, if you stop loving someone or stop being in a communication with somebody you love, because you have a difference of opinion, political beliefs, lifestyle, I hope that you read this and then you know what to do, how to call them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and how to invite them for that curbside blunch.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I tell about my travels and how I adopted in China and in San Francisco and now in Paris.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's hard to have those conversations.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I know that this is not a happy, very happy subject.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I tried to make it as fun and engaging as possible so that people will relax and dance with me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Now I have a different perspective about the Institute of Tangle.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I do, and I won't change face on what you said.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So on a thank you so much for spending the time and having those conversations, I think the women in our community appreciate going there and talk about it, because that's what they, they feel in a daily basis.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you so much for your time and sharing your story with us.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for inviting me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for listening.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I hope you've found today's conversation valuable.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And show this with a women in your life, Benny Sue here.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'll see you next week.
