Ultra Performance Ski Boots With Brent Amsbury

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hey skiers, are you looking for a boot that provides ultimate comfort whilst also being very high performing?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I certainly was, and this was one of the first boots that I got that kind of fit that category.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, my guest today on the podcast Brent Armsbury master boot fit out with tons of experience.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He calls these boots ultra performance boots.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not quite like a race plug boot and it's not like an all-mountain, 130-flex hyperfoiling boot it's sort of almost in-between there and he's seeing a resurgence in boots this year in that category.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Once it have good angles that sort of don't stand you to upright they help you get forward and be in a dynamic position they're quite snug fitting and close fitting you need to do some boot work often if you don't have that narrow sort of European type of foot.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so, on this podcast, I wanted to get brands ideas around this.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I want to have a discussion with him around this ultra-performance type of boot.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, if you're that person, you're that kind of really obsessed with technique.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You really want to push the game that your level of skiing up a bit.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to fall on plug boot, which takes a lot of work and is heavy, but you don't want sort of one of these sort of...
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[SPEAKER_00]: almost like gone too towards the comfort and not giving you enough precision and drive through the ski.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, this podcast is for you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, without further ado, let's get into it with Brent Armsbury today.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Brent.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I've got you on today because I really want to help the viewer.
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[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of the people that are on YouTube watching ski videos.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They're looking, a lot of the time for performance booth that still is comfortable and I know there's a lot of booths coming out You're aware of now that that fit this bill and you're seeing maybe a little bit of a trend and interestingly this trend We're seeing come back
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of related to a conversation, the rental boot thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I went to Dubai, just for fun and I didn't take ski boots.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I used the rental gear and I was shocked.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Made a video about it about a lot of the, a lot of the angles were like, just made me feel like I couldn't ski well.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Give us your perspective what that made you think about in terms of
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so, you know, you really got me thinking about not the rental book per se.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But like, have we possibly made, you know, have the trend of boots possibly made them too easy?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like too easy to ski?
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[SPEAKER_01]: have we moved almost to the point where it's like we've made them almost a little too like easy to be comfortable in them and easy to stand in them as opposed to the boot challenging us a little bit more.
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[SPEAKER_01]: to be more on our game and I'm not saying like the boot has to be like really brutally hard.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not talking about the the old days of laying bang and people getting bloody and painful.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying that maybe we've over commercialized the boot a little bit like just made it a little too creature comforty.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and now we're possibly seeing a resurgence back to boots that kind of say let's let's put some horse more horsepower and more torque more energy into the ski and yeah they might shock you a little bit at first but you can you learn how to become better.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because you, you in the shop had customers coming in saying, I bought this boot recommended.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was the bees' knees kind of all terrain, style boot, and what sort of feedback were you hearing?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, like this is started this season.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I probably have more customers who've come in and said, well, I bought this boot on a recommendation of a website or like some marketing videos.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I went and skied on it and they said, these ones skied on it, that was just like really lackluster.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like really didn't make the ski want to really roll over an edge.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They would always say it's like maybe a little too soft feeling, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's just way too much play, you know, going into the front of the boot.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they were like, it was comfortable, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like they were always saying, it was comfortable, but.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right, like like as if they had misgivings of a buying a car, that was like, oh, it was comfortable.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But a boy gave me no joy to drive it, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: So like we're seeing some people, definitely some customers who are coming in and saying, bad I bought this boot and it was comfortable, but I had no joy skiing it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So this is leading into where I was sort of going with this.
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[SPEAKER_00]: because now what are you seeing?
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[SPEAKER_00]: You're a preview to like the new boots that the new models coming out.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What's something, yeah, you're seeing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So what we're seeing, or I'm seeing at least personally, is that like, to start a season, we're putting more people into this new 96 millimeter lasted research and spute, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And there's so many factors who have really kind of jumped out like the head, the head, after WCR has always been 96.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But we have more people moving to that boot because they tried like the recreational versions of other boots and went, I need more boot and like, here's more boot and they're like, great.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Davelo, DRS, like, oh, they made this 90,000 year last to DRS, but now they made the 140 in a 97.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So closer to the 96, like, wait a minute, we're making that boot even.
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[SPEAKER_01]: even more edgy, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then Atomic.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So you got Atomic who had the Redster CS, which was a 96-millimeter last-of-boot, but kind of lived in the shadow of the World Cup boot, because it was a Redster.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And now they made this whole new line of 96-millimeter last-of-boots.
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[SPEAKER_01]: like the TX and the remedy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So you gave it a new name, a new shape.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a 96 millimeter booth that everybody just kind of kicked to the side and now I've got to want a 96 millimeter booth because they put some grip box holes and some a little bit more creature comfort into it, amped up the liner and now all of a sudden it's the star of the shell.
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[SPEAKER_01]: mm-hmm people want it like it was neglect it was an orphan now it's the star and it and it's you know these are great boots They don't the technique of fireburg enough The KX series these boots have been around but all of a sudden we're seeing this shift back to these more strong powerful torque ribbon boots because I think people have tried the more
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[SPEAKER_01]: hyped, free ride, easy to ski boots, and just what, man, this isn't doing it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like I really want to ski with that pushes the edge.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I, with experience, like, now into my 10th, 11th boot, or something, I know now that I, even though I have a wide foot,
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[SPEAKER_00]: I still go for really narrow.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to bring up this conversation that because now it's really obvious.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Boots, that last is stated on there.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think more people are aware that it moves up and down with the sizes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But I guess, can you help give some insight there that just because you might have a little bit wider of a foot or something that you don't need to shy away?
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[SPEAKER_00]: bootwork.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know where I'm going with this.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So help us help us out with, you know, not scaring people, but making people aware of this fit and maybe the benefits.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think, you know, when you look at the marketing and they say the last I say it's narrow and he's like, oh, I need to have narrow feet, but no, you don't, you don't need narrow feet.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you need as quality bootfitting to take a boot that really should be called ultra performance in its last, which is that really is close and hugs the anatomical features.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and what you need is quality buffeting to nudge and massage, you know, this performance last around your anatomical uniqueness, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're wider, I mean, you're, you're not likely to be wide everywhere, yes, I'm not wide everywhere on my foot, you know, like I have a wide for foot, but my ankle and
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I would be pretty happy putting my foot in a 96 boot.
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[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm going to get out of it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Once I start pushing, nudging, massaging, grinding, punching, shaping, and it takes time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And as there's a bit of a relationship aspect to this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But what I'm going to get is a boot that actually makes my skis feel like they're sharper.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'll take the edges are sharper that can really trust the rail.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I liked how you reframed maybe the last being about the foot width, which is probably a good way to view it if you're maybe a skier that's not doing as many days and you just don't want to spend a bunch of time in the shop.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You just want the boot to fit and you know, you're not serious about improving that's the thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But if you be on that,
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[SPEAKER_00]: this, this 96 millimeter last, I like to say it's like ultra performance.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So you're actually choosing the last is kind of guiding you into the kind of performance you're going to get out of a boot.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So these people that they're looking at it now, maybe, well, let's go next.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Can you describe the boots you know in the different brands in this kind of 96 millimeter, and maybe help
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[SPEAKER_00]: Helper like the three categories like the person that isn't a narrow foot, which of the of the ultra performance ones go well there, the person is kind of in the middle and then I'm going to say like the wide lower arch like I have a few like Asian friends and they have like a wide of foot and it's lower kind of low but wide volume is like yeah, yeah, so maybe guide us to talk us through what you feel is in the range currently between the brands in this category.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, like specifically to brands and models, if we start with atomic, we've got the atomic TX and the remedy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The Dalbello DRS, even though it's 98, it's closer to the ultra performance in the 140 to make the 97.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If we go to Technica, we've got the Firebird, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: The Firebird R. You can get the World Cup version, but like, what you see on the website, the Firebird is the 96 last.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, laying, you know, they tuned their new laying RS, which they brought out last year.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a 98, 97, but really, you know, it's again steers more towards that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: that 96 style of boot with a thicker shell wall, we have the KX series that's always been really narrow and really tapered.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Almost almost to a fault because you need a good bupher to make a
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[SPEAKER_01]: not want to bite you really hard, okay, you know, Fisher, they built in 95 last 96 last boot a while back the podium GT, it went away again, kind of lived in the shadow of its World Cup, uh, brethren, and so they don't have a boot in that kind of glory right now, but I would imagine they will eventually soon, because of its kind of coming back, as you've got the dopamine,
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[SPEAKER_01]: the drummer in five, which is, you know, 95, 96 last, like that's a really powerful boot.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I've recommended like that boot to a lot of instructors, because there's a lot of room to work with it, and you shouldn't be afraid of that boot.
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[SPEAKER_01]: K-2, you know, they built this,
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[SPEAKER_01]: uh uh a new boot with double boa, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a nice, it's a low volume last, but they put more aggressive angles on it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It really, it's like a comfort, but aggressively, you know, a stance boot.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it really falls directly into the 96 last, but you know, they're saying with the boa, it kind of pulls the last in.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's a little bit of controversial, but
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[SPEAKER_01]: that we see this trend, like there's this separation, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: So there's many factors of saying, look, these LV boots that we made, these 98 millimeter LASID LV boots.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The comments have been, oh, you know, the boots needs to be comfortable.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So they kind of just kept pushing them out and like making more commercialized.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well,
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now they look more like the mid-volume boots and they're like really they stand up taller they're really easy to ski And so you kind of like these some of these manufacturers even drop those boots They'll be like no we don't even make the the crypt on cabrio in a 98 or 97 millimeter last anymore so they got this big gap So we're seeing Manufacturers go well we've had this 96 millimeter category all along
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[SPEAKER_01]: And now we're kind of killing off some of these LV boots, so 96 is like the new LV and yet on steroids, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's gotten more power, more performance when we're seeing people gravitate, like I want more performance.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So what's out there?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so we're just adding a little bit of creature comfort.
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[SPEAKER_01]: it's kind of become alive, it's like it's resurgent, you know, Dalbello even makes grip block souls for their DRS.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like you can just, oh, what soul do you want?
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, do you want an easy to lock soul?
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's got better grip, but you want the racing slick racing souls, but you can take one boot.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and turn it into a little more SUV-ish, and you take the same boot and make it more of a club racer just by the soli you put on.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that wasn't available.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Would you dare to kind of categorize like a bunch of few of these boots for those three stereo types or the kind of groups of foot types?
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[SPEAKER_00]: So they, you know, if they are in that, that's kind of my foot, I want to go search out a shop that at least has one of those in that range.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Would you would you be able to help kind of, yeah, dare to do that?
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[SPEAKER_01]: In those type in the 96 millimeter last, I'm very comfortable with putting a wide variety of feet in them because they do hug the foot so well.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're wider and lower, you know, these boots are already lower in the in step, so I can just make with if you're tall and narrow, I've got these really good bootboards, I can lower.
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[SPEAKER_01]: your foot all the way down in the boot to give you my roof height.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's a really good point.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to just explain that because I think something like it's playing the pain point that person might have been experiencing and then gone to a high volume boot, but lost.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just explain that one because that boot bought adjustment thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's important.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so like a lot of the high performance the 96 millimeter last of boots have racing style bootboards, some have a little softer, but you can grind them, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: You can, they're thick and you can grind them down.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So you can make vertical room of the boot.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And not only that, because you got a thicker shell, I can grind and localize that high foot, like there's a point where that high foot, that tall narrow foot hits the top of the boot.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't need a high volume booth to deal with that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I just need to isolate that area and re-contour it, and I can assure you you're not going to have that pain point anymore.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But you get the narrowness and the performance of the anatomical fit, but just using the bootboard and re-contouring, you get it comfortable with all the power.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Brilliant.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, good.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So now I sort of interrupt you there.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So we're saying you fit you have been feeling a lot of kind of shapes of feet into these types of boots because of that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Any other reasons maybe expand on like with the boot fit of working with the types of plastics that these are made out of.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make a difference to these boots often give you more
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[SPEAKER_01]: They do.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They flat out do the thicker shell wall, they use high level PU, a polyurethane poly ether constructions, and because you have more material to work with, you can make more contours, and there was this drive towards these thin shell wall boots.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And thin shell wall beats me, they're lighter, so there's like this attraction, like, oh, they're not as heavy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They're easy to contour, but you got this thin shell wall, but thin shell wall has limitations.
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[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as you start munking with these thin shell walls, they start to distort.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They start to get funky on you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so you end up with a boot that has kind of run away from you in terms of,
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[SPEAKER_01]: like the contour plus performance, they've just kind of, if you work them too hard, they give up, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Where the thicker shell walls, like in these 96 millimeter last, is like, man, it's, there's a box framed.
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[SPEAKER_01]: race car type boots.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And you have so much more to work with.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so like high quality bootfitters for sure, even within my colleagues, if I asked him, hey, what do you like to work on?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what would you like to work on every day?
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[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to talk about these boots.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They're not, I mean, they rarely go, oh, I like a really thin shell well boot that's just kind of just like, doesn't challenge me when I'm doing, they're like,
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[SPEAKER_01]: Give me thick P U plastic, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Mm.
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[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But being scared when I was doing some work in a boot shop, when you had, like, the boots and that the plastic part way along would change.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So you'd have, like, whether to plastic had to join if you had to punch it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Scary.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This is like that's where it's going to break because you heat and mechanically push at it Right, like the two different types of plastic joined by a Physical bond right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So then expectations wise For these people going okay This sounds like what I want.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I want more edge grip.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I want more performance
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[SPEAKER_00]: do they need to expect like a longer time process, uh, revisit, um, felt differences that that that that maybe before they've ever gone.
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[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's not comfortable next boot, please.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, your expectation has to be that you're going to spend more time to get these set up and if you expect these boots to be 100% comfortable going out the door, no, you should, when you put them on, there's going to be some clear spots that are making your brain go, give me out here, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: but with a good bufitter, you see they start nudging.
20:37.960 --> 20:40.965
[SPEAKER_01]: We call it the low hanging fruit, right?
20:40.986 --> 20:46.256
[SPEAKER_01]: So it really hurts, let's say I'm in the vehicular and it really hurts on your ankle bone and it really hurts on the six toe.
20:46.276 --> 20:47.518
[SPEAKER_01]: Like these are like searing.
20:48.380 --> 20:53.610
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you do these three punches and like the picture starts to clear.
20:53.962 --> 20:56.426
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, clear, it's like, oh, there's relief there.
20:56.666 --> 21:04.317
[SPEAKER_01]: And then all of a sudden, there's like these little, niggly little things, like, boy, this ankle pocket, like the Achilles feels a little aggressive.
21:05.238 --> 21:10.426
[SPEAKER_01]: And boy, my big toe could use maybe a little more room, but when I flex on it, it seems to be better.
21:10.686 --> 21:13.911
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's the stuff where you go, tell you what.
21:14.043 --> 21:15.487
[SPEAKER_01]: Go ski it, right?
21:15.969 --> 21:17.533
[SPEAKER_01]: Go ski it, let the liner break in.
21:17.573 --> 21:21.384
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of those will remain and some will go wet.
21:21.745 --> 21:24.694
[SPEAKER_01]: So there may be there's six little tiny things that you go.
21:25.518 --> 21:28.542
[SPEAKER_01]: Will these go away or not?
21:28.862 --> 21:31.285
[SPEAKER_01]: But like three of them will go away when you ski.
21:31.706 --> 21:40.798
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you come back, you just have this little short list of three things, and maybe on each boot, where a bootfitter can just take it and grind it a little bit.
21:41.118 --> 21:46.866
[SPEAKER_01]: Just knock this down, knock a little here, knock a little there off, and then boom, those are gone.
21:47.386 --> 21:50.671
[SPEAKER_01]: So one session just kind of get the low hanging fruit out of the way.
21:51.191 --> 21:54.816
[SPEAKER_01]: Second session to deal with the little,
21:55.454 --> 22:00.807
[SPEAKER_01]: And now you've got a boot that's, you know, 95, 96% there, right?
22:00.827 --> 22:07.763
[SPEAKER_01]: Like little things could show up after you ski in a while, but for a third visit, but it's not a deal breaker.
22:08.645 --> 22:09.247
[SPEAKER_00]: Back to now.
22:09.949 --> 22:13.497
[SPEAKER_00]: Back to our trend of like, maybe win almost too comfortable.
22:14.557 --> 22:42.876
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... with you know the whole range of boots it's almost like a red flag in this category if it's like this i could ski this right of the box is almost a little bit of a red flag yeah like it's like no if you have ultra narrow feet might be a slam dunker yes but then when i do have ultra narrow feet in these class boots then i go right to like a ziffet liner it's like yeah okay they come with a little bit of a thin dense liner
22:42.856 --> 22:56.967
[SPEAKER_01]: And if it's got enough grip, it's like, okay, sorry, we got to upgrade you right to a zip fit that engages that ankle even more in this frame and it boom, it's like, wow, okay, narrow feet, very happy now.
22:58.931 --> 23:00.274
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you say.
23:00.676 --> 23:14.395
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you kind of mentioned before with the types of boots you'd like to work on, but a boot that has the ability to be ground, not just only punched, gives you so, like, well, one, it's quicker, right?
23:14.475 --> 23:16.718
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to heat it, stretch it, wait.
23:17.119 --> 23:18.481
[SPEAKER_00]: You can go in there, market.
23:19.202 --> 23:21.205
[SPEAKER_00]: You can be very precise, can't you?
23:21.325 --> 23:30.177
[SPEAKER_00]: So, a lot of the time these boots, if you can get that in the
23:30.528 --> 23:59.674
[SPEAKER_01]: farm or opportunity to be really precise with like snugging in and fitting these little bunny patches and yeah I mean it's quicker to an extent but the nice thing about a grindable boot is you can go in and just take a little bit at a time so okay I made a punch but that punch yeah I could punch it but like each shape is a you know the shape is like that's the shape
24:00.312 --> 24:04.877
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, when you punch it just, oh, you just like, oh, I tried to nudge it, but it overshot a little bit.
24:05.598 --> 24:15.348
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you got to figure out how to get back and what's grinding, it's just easier just to be like taking like shaving, you know, the zone and you need to expand it or make it deeper.
24:15.388 --> 24:23.637
[SPEAKER_01]: You can do it a little bit at a time and the book goes on the book that's off, but you can just get it to right where the point where you're really satisfied with it.
24:23.617 --> 24:33.451
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, carving, you know, scalping, right, as opposed to like, poor, you know, one spot, and then you might have overshot.
24:33.551 --> 24:40.421
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it was, it was just about good enough and then not, it's kind of like too open, like there's almost too much room.
24:40.521 --> 24:41.583
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just so hard.
24:42.024 --> 24:45.068
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you, you with all your experience,
24:45.200 --> 24:49.993
[SPEAKER_00]: That's helpful, but to stretch a boot and know the how much it's going to come back.
24:50.795 --> 24:57.252
[SPEAKER_00]: And every plastic, even probably every year, if they make a new boot and the plastic is changed, the color.
24:57.569 --> 25:06.881
[SPEAKER_00]: you're not 100% sure that it's going to come back the same as the old atomic did or if it's going to go right that's that's the true thing of the stretching.
25:07.502 --> 25:13.629
[SPEAKER_00]: But you can see if you're taking half one to melt away.
25:13.689 --> 25:18.936
[SPEAKER_00]: It's more the measurableness of it makes it really workable.
25:19.537 --> 25:22.120
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and the grinding boots you just get the shape that you want.
25:22.180 --> 25:24.403
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if it's really oblique and really
25:24.822 --> 25:32.250
[SPEAKER_01]: like you can you can make that shape exactly what it looks like has a reflection of the body as opposed to a general area.
25:32.870 --> 25:33.131
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
25:33.731 --> 25:41.860
[SPEAKER_00]: So if someone's moving up into this, they've, you know, been a wide foot, they've always bought a high volume wide boot.
25:42.080 --> 25:44.162
[SPEAKER_00]: That, that, that foot, that kind of boot.
25:44.763 --> 25:54.593
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to step up and they try a pair of boots on what would, uh, what would you expect their reactional feelings to be?
25:55.923 --> 26:04.574
[SPEAKER_01]: If you've been in like, I like a higher volume, but yeah, well, of course, you're you get a shock of how snug they are, right?
26:04.795 --> 26:25.221
[SPEAKER_01]: And especially the angle and the heel pocket and in the mid foot like boy, this thing is really it's a cramped cockpit.
26:25.842 --> 26:43.066
[SPEAKER_01]: that boot and massage it, because trust me, just because you think you're kind of freaking out in there, like I look at people when they come in and they get in these boots and I go look, I can make this thing pretty wide, like I can really open this thing up.
26:43.787 --> 26:49.555
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like I've seen people with triple E with feet and we get them into these,
26:50.092 --> 26:52.258
[SPEAKER_01]: Ultra performance loss.
26:52.578 --> 26:53.561
[SPEAKER_01]: It's doable.
26:53.681 --> 26:57.311
[SPEAKER_01]: It may take for for sessions, but it's doable.
26:57.451 --> 26:59.837
[SPEAKER_01]: And then these boots tend to last longer.
27:00.158 --> 27:01.782
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a really good part.
27:02.043 --> 27:02.464
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:03.592 --> 27:04.494
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a very point.
27:04.814 --> 27:15.673
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like all the people who I set up in these boots, I may see a boot that's come back after seven seasons of skiing and it's still in tact with new solos on and replace some buckles.
27:16.254 --> 27:19.580
[SPEAKER_01]: If it hasn't cracked yet, like these boots keep going.
27:19.680 --> 27:28.435
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen the lanes like that have cracked and we've repaired the cracks and they just keep going like the cracks just kind of dies away.
27:28.837 --> 27:30.381
[SPEAKER_01]: And like they just keep going.
27:30.621 --> 27:36.816
[SPEAKER_01]: You think the fruits were split in half and they go another three seasons with a little cracking them and they just keep going.
27:37.518 --> 27:38.962
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm I'm in that camp.
27:39.122 --> 27:42.390
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't I've got my podium boots.
27:43.180 --> 27:43.681
[SPEAKER_00]: dialed.
27:44.302 --> 27:47.107
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just don't want to go like it's taken a while.
27:48.149 --> 27:52.717
[SPEAKER_00]: But that because of this so solid, yeah, broke a buckle this season, just replaced it.
27:52.898 --> 27:53.559
[SPEAKER_00]: That was fine.
27:53.819 --> 27:53.980
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
27:54.180 --> 27:55.382
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got a zip fit in it.
27:55.843 --> 28:01.253
[SPEAKER_00]: So that, you know, if that eventually dies, you know, I just get another one of those.
28:01.353 --> 28:07.264
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think the longevity part of it this investment early on, more time,
28:07.396 --> 28:08.277
[SPEAKER_00]: to get it right.
28:08.618 --> 28:13.204
[SPEAKER_00]: You do kind of get that back a little bit later on versus the the other way around.
28:13.945 --> 28:20.514
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like these boots are like the story of the the person who drives a Porsche for like a half a million miles.
28:21.475 --> 28:28.264
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they replaced a bunch of parts and they but it went a half a million miles because they love the way it drives, right?
28:28.705 --> 28:28.965
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:29.317 --> 28:34.384
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like other cars, they're more creature, comforty, and electronic key.
28:35.145 --> 28:37.248
[SPEAKER_01]: You drive them 200,000 miles and just junk them.
28:37.709 --> 28:40.533
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you're just like, it's not even worth repairing them, right?
28:40.953 --> 28:45.460
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of like the recreational performance category.
28:45.540 --> 28:51.308
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, you can go about 152,000 miles and then you just junk it, right?
28:52.029 --> 28:55.594
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the 96 class boots and in the World Cup boots,
28:56.401 --> 28:58.284
[SPEAKER_01]: These are the half million miles, right?
28:58.384 --> 28:59.847
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they can keep going.
28:59.927 --> 29:01.830
[SPEAKER_01]: You can keep them nut as your foot changes.
29:01.970 --> 29:03.152
[SPEAKER_01]: You just grind a little more.
29:03.733 --> 29:04.414
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right?
29:04.434 --> 29:08.642
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, you know, maybe I change this as you go.
29:09.503 --> 29:15.473
[SPEAKER_00]: I should say to a lot of the things in this boot, you can't feel in the shop.
29:15.875 --> 29:24.148
[SPEAKER_00]: how much of a change an effect it has on the actual snow experience, which is tricky.
29:24.168 --> 29:25.129
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?
29:25.610 --> 29:25.831
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:26.952 --> 29:36.988
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you've not experienced that, it can be hard to get the buy-in to spend the time, spend the money with the boot fit of getting it right.
29:37.525 --> 29:52.176
[SPEAKER_00]: but holy cow, yeah, when you get the snow experience within you realize that we're not just talking crappy, like it edges better, you can go fast and you don't feel like as unstable, you just charge through chopped like,
29:52.848 --> 29:53.689
[SPEAKER_00]: nothing else.
29:54.250 --> 30:20.188
[SPEAKER_00]: I was trying to ski Joe Dunn, ski dad, and he said, you know, what I prefer my race boots in the powder to the the full tilt boots, which you'd think would be the other way round, but it's because it just holds him so solid that even if he gets a bit back and wheelies like the boot just brings him back to this athletic position, he's back, back on it again,
30:20.843 --> 30:21.204
[SPEAKER_01]: true.
30:22.406 --> 30:30.480
[SPEAKER_01]: It almost feels as if we went a little like manufacturers just want a little too far with the more uprighty stance, right?
30:30.881 --> 30:35.830
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's like, oh, we got ski really upright really relaxed because we're just skiing a bunch of double rocker stuff.
30:36.651 --> 30:43.223
[SPEAKER_01]: And now we're like, oh, maybe we just make it a little too easy in a little too uprighty.
30:43.675 --> 30:52.553
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, like this Japanese YouTube site, like they have this image of your stance.
30:52.894 --> 30:55.900
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're knee, right?
30:56.441 --> 31:04.958
[SPEAKER_01]: Then the flexion of the knee point is not over your big toe, they're like, no, like if you're too upright in the boot, you can't see.
31:05.444 --> 31:14.914
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to have you got to challenge your forward lean a little bit and I know some people are going to just freak out when I say it's like a way to wait a minute like I don't have great range of motion in my ankle.
31:15.282 --> 31:16.824
[SPEAKER_01]: So I need a boot that's more upright.
31:16.844 --> 31:22.931
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, but we can get a little more forward.
31:23.111 --> 31:27.296
[SPEAKER_01]: We can't actually find a little bit more thresholds.
31:27.476 --> 31:34.285
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of manufacturers, I feel like boots used to challenge me much harder with my low range of motion ankles.
31:34.945 --> 31:37.408
[SPEAKER_01]: And now it's like every boot I can try on the free ride category.
31:37.428 --> 31:38.850
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it doesn't even matter.
31:39.150 --> 31:44.817
[SPEAKER_01]: They tell us to stand upright, really shaped them.
31:45.016 --> 31:48.360
[SPEAKER_01]: boom, more forward lean, but it's not that bad.
31:48.400 --> 31:50.423
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, I can work with this.
31:50.783 --> 32:07.605
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, yeah, I may have to do a little tweaking, just find that really happy point, but by playing with like ramp angles on the skis, like the delta angles, I can take a, you know, high forward lean boot this way and just flatten out my ski.
32:07.645 --> 32:08.526
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
32:08.978 --> 32:18.741
[SPEAKER_01]: When I get the best of both worlds, more forward lean, close down the ankle a little bit, get faster reaction, but I can still feel like I'm not out of balance.
32:18.761 --> 32:18.902
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
32:18.922 --> 32:19.202
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:19.503 --> 32:20.866
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah.
32:20.886 --> 32:24.996
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that point of you need just sitting a bit over your toe.
32:25.448 --> 32:33.223
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you'd have to be like really very, very bad ankle flex to not be held or like be there.
32:33.383 --> 32:42.580
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that, you know, beyond that short, but I think even with what, you know, like a 16 degree forward lane, I think.
32:42.560 --> 33:12.516
[SPEAKER_00]: There would be a fair amount of people still in the like I've got limited range like even my wife she's crap range of ankle Motion but yeah, she's in in a boot that she she noticed when it went upright she's like the I can't get forward so we had to Yeah, she's like I can't keep it as well as I can we're in Japan and it's like oh no Yeah, it's almost like that the industry kind of snuck it like they keep sneaking towards these these shapes that got us more and more upright
33:12.614 --> 33:14.758
[SPEAKER_01]: It almost feels like we just want a little too far.
33:15.920 --> 33:18.725
[SPEAKER_01]: And now there's 96 clacks, but you can clearly see them.
33:18.745 --> 33:19.266
[SPEAKER_01]: They're coming.
33:19.566 --> 33:23.834
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, we need to get more flexion.
33:24.836 --> 33:29.003
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to re-emphasize the point of down this road.
33:29.725 --> 33:35.954
[SPEAKER_00]: you're going to need to invest a little bit more money and a little bit more time to get the good the good outcome.
33:36.775 --> 33:42.342
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're going to need to develop a good relationship with your bootfitter because there is a bit more work done.
33:42.442 --> 33:47.970
[SPEAKER_00]: Unless you're the really, there are people that are lucky
33:48.760 --> 33:51.664
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, this is good, little, little grind here, and then I'm happy.
33:52.185 --> 33:56.511
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's, in your experience, what did you say that's definitely on the less?
33:57.272 --> 33:59.875
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, that's a smaller percentage.
34:00.536 --> 34:00.716
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:00.736 --> 34:01.417
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:01.437 --> 34:02.759
[SPEAKER_00]: So you've got to be prepared for that.
34:02.819 --> 34:04.441
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to mention that now.
34:04.541 --> 34:18.160
[SPEAKER_00]: So expectations, I think, you know, I think it's brilliant if we can help people realize what it is, and then they know the time that's going to be spent doing it to get that kind of fit.
34:18.646 --> 34:34.343
[SPEAKER_00]: So anything more on that you being on the boot fitter and you know me being someone that's coming in and saying make this work for me anymore advice or words For the listener looking for the boot coming to their boot fitter like maybe even
34:34.964 --> 34:51.032
[SPEAKER_00]: are they going to be because you know are you I I don't want to you know like they're not those kind of places are probably not going to be able to fit this type of boot they probably don't even carry the range but any like little hints that are sharp
34:51.468 --> 35:06.810
[SPEAKER_00]: because you know a lot of your shop is awesome people know that people will recommend it but what if you don't know are there like signs like oh they'll have race boots on the wall or you'll see the workshop out the back and they'll be like someone's grinding a Buddha
35:07.887 --> 35:15.193
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, those level of boots do take the better, they'd require the better boot fitter in the store, right?
35:15.794 --> 35:25.422
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you're going to buy into this and invest in this, you definitely want to go, okay, who's the most experienced boot fitter in the store that handles these boots?
35:26.002 --> 35:28.425
[SPEAKER_01]: They may say, yeah, a person's pretty booked out.
35:28.445 --> 35:37.152
[SPEAKER_01]: There's one person just kind of
35:37.756 --> 35:59.697
[SPEAKER_01]: having that person with the most amount of experience set those boots up for you and then realizing it's not a Russian rush-out situation like you're better off like this is my day so when I'm going to book in it might be just a two-hour appointment but you but like if you come into me and you say okay it's a two-hour appointment
36:00.318 --> 36:04.104
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that you're coming and we got to get that boot done that day.
36:04.605 --> 36:06.268
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to just kick you out of two hours.
36:06.368 --> 36:08.952
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, okay, we just burned up to two hours.
36:08.992 --> 36:11.196
[SPEAKER_01]: We got it, but go have lunch.
36:11.216 --> 36:12.117
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to keep working.
36:12.558 --> 36:18.207
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you went, you went, you went and had lunch at, you know, 130 and then you come back at three and I got a bunch more work done.
36:18.648 --> 36:22.334
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'll, you know, good fitters will stick with it to the end of the day.
36:22.775 --> 36:23.676
[SPEAKER_01]: He just hang around.
36:23.943 --> 36:25.985
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, hand them the boot, say a little bit more.
36:26.226 --> 36:34.175
[SPEAKER_01]: They might be working with another customer, but it's easy for us to just go back and go, okay, a little more here, a little more there, a little this, we just kind of keep slipping all that in.
36:34.536 --> 36:35.497
[SPEAKER_01]: You get it done in a day.
36:36.057 --> 36:38.981
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me live in that shop for the whole day.
36:40.142 --> 36:53.578
[SPEAKER_01]: But you'll walk out with a pair of boots that are, you know, the low hanging fruit is gone, they're ready to ski, you know, their alignment is, you know, tracked and ready.
36:53.828 --> 37:00.697
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not going to be, don't go in there like, oh, in 90 minutes, I'm going to have a pair of these boots down.
37:00.797 --> 37:01.498
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no.
37:01.739 --> 37:03.481
[SPEAKER_01]: Just expect to live there.
37:03.701 --> 37:04.262
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
37:04.342 --> 37:04.522
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:05.143 --> 37:05.644
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
37:05.664 --> 37:06.505
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'll send it out.
37:06.665 --> 37:08.007
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:08.047 --> 37:20.764
[SPEAKER_00]: Some advice, probably for maybe the instructors out there, coming from that background, who were often maybe, you know, because you're in the industry, expecting maybe,
37:21.487 --> 37:35.770
[SPEAKER_00]: a bit of a discount or, or that sort of thing, I would just say now being older and experienced, I realize the costs of running a business, the costs of staff these days, the margins in equipment and everything.
37:37.132 --> 37:47.308
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the best thing you can do is just suck it up and realize that it's not like you're going to have to get this done every single day or every week once it's right.
37:47.440 --> 37:55.787
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think be ready to pay for the work that goes into molding this type of boot into a boot that will help you ski better.
37:56.388 --> 38:14.184
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just want to mention that because I just don't, I feel that, you know, there's even changed with the times it used to be by a boot and like all the boot fitting was free and I don't know really many shops that do that because it's just, you can't make, you can't make a living out of it.
38:14.204 --> 38:15.405
[SPEAKER_00]: You cannot do that.
38:15.571 --> 38:26.187
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you can't, the industry's gotten much more expensive in terms of the overhead costs, the rents, the taxes, everything, your staff, right?
38:26.247 --> 38:35.581
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, just the other peripheral staff there, they're not working at minimum wage anymore, right?
38:36.242 --> 38:44.194
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and they're supporting, you know, they're part of the support for the lead
38:44.410 --> 39:04.512
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, because they're taking care of all the tourists and people just want nice comfy fence, but, you know, you have to pay them a livable wage, you know, these days and they have to make a decent living and especially when most of these fitters are now congregating in scariest, which have some of the highest cost of living.
39:05.183 --> 39:07.546
[SPEAKER_01]: in the nation, right?
39:08.748 --> 39:09.228
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:09.248 --> 39:18.880
[SPEAKER_01]: So the days of like when I started working in the industry, minimum wage was, I was more than happy to take minimum wage because it was like a lifestyle job.
39:19.641 --> 39:22.205
[SPEAKER_01]: And the life around me wasn't that expensive.
39:22.745 --> 39:26.870
[SPEAKER_01]: So now you can't, you just, that doesn't exist anymore.
39:27.031 --> 39:32.878
[SPEAKER_01]: It's no longer people working for low, low, like,
39:33.314 --> 39:36.782
[SPEAKER_01]: lower wages because they're in the industry for the fun.
39:36.822 --> 39:42.054
[SPEAKER_01]: They actually have to to make enough save that.
39:42.074 --> 39:44.500
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so just answer a question a little more direct.
39:44.520 --> 39:48.589
[SPEAKER_01]: So your instructor you buy a boot like this on on pro form.
39:48.890 --> 39:56.299
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you're not going to be able to go in and pay a deducted labor rate because you're an instructor.
39:56.639 --> 40:00.004
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you're going to pay the brain surgeon rate, right?
40:00.624 --> 40:04.809
[SPEAKER_01]: But best brain surgeon out there is not going to be an inexpensive doctor.
40:04.990 --> 40:06.812
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's the same thing.
40:06.852 --> 40:10.236
[SPEAKER_01]: The best bootfitters don't work for low rates.
40:10.777 --> 40:11.678
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
40:11.698 --> 40:11.958
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
40:11.978 --> 40:13.680
[SPEAKER_00]: They were not just things that's really important.
40:14.061 --> 40:15.943
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's really important to mention.
40:16.750 --> 40:22.078
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I mean, you and I both wish it could be really a lot cheaper.
40:22.158 --> 40:25.083
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just not the way.
40:25.103 --> 40:30.711
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if you just have that understanding, you know, just the world is more expensive now.
40:30.751 --> 40:35.979
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not the way maybe it used to be in the past, just accept it.
40:36.721 --> 40:39.725
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure you'll be able to get around it.
40:39.745 --> 40:44.833
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's, you know, it's not an ongoing weekly monthly cost.
40:44.999 --> 40:53.130
[SPEAKER_00]: you're paying for someone's expertise to also be in the industry that the skin structure is in loving it for the same reasons.
40:53.290 --> 40:53.811
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
40:53.851 --> 40:55.073
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, right.
40:55.553 --> 40:59.539
[SPEAKER_01]: So just like a quick comparison, I found out my mechanic for my car.
41:00.099 --> 41:02.803
[SPEAKER_01]: That shop is $210 an hour.
41:04.305 --> 41:06.448
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the labor rate.
41:06.468 --> 41:06.648
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
41:07.449 --> 41:08.070
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
41:09.400 --> 41:09.981
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:10.362 --> 41:11.685
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:12.206 --> 41:12.347
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:12.367 --> 41:13.209
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:13.349 --> 41:15.373
[SPEAKER_01]: My hourly rate is below that.
41:16.015 --> 41:16.356
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:16.656 --> 41:16.957
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:17.037 --> 41:17.258
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:17.298 --> 41:26.919
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got so in this in different skill like area boots, mechanical like the same amount of experience and level there going on.
41:27.020 --> 41:27.240
[SPEAKER_00]: But
41:27.727 --> 41:33.797
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so anyway, I think that was an important thing to bring up again with the expectations thing.
41:34.718 --> 41:36.481
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, but it's worth it, right?
41:36.501 --> 41:49.443
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, these boots, these are the, these are the Porsche slash Ferrari Lamborghini ish Mercedes S classy boots out there, right?
41:49.984 --> 41:52.688
[SPEAKER_01]: So these boots are really
41:53.309 --> 41:57.133
[SPEAKER_01]: hot ship powerful goods that will make you skiing better.
41:57.593 --> 42:01.237
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you will be out of ski faster better in them like that.
42:01.617 --> 42:02.999
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what you're after.
42:03.239 --> 42:03.760
[SPEAKER_00]: It's worth it.
42:03.900 --> 42:04.500
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll get it out.
42:04.560 --> 42:05.041
[SPEAKER_00]: It's worth it.
42:05.381 --> 42:07.584
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're going to get your money back.
42:07.604 --> 42:18.895
[SPEAKER_01]: Trust me with big smiles and ski performance and hooking up the edge and railing the ski that you may have never experienced before.
42:18.875 --> 42:19.776
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
42:19.796 --> 42:21.398
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's like there's a reason for this.
42:21.939 --> 42:26.084
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you see all these top skis are in that kind of a boot.
42:26.965 --> 42:31.952
[SPEAKER_00]: Doing what they're doing, part of it is what that equipment allows them to do.
42:31.992 --> 42:36.197
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, get their skill level up.
42:36.217 --> 42:47.852
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, sure, they can go back down, but to get up to that point, you need something that supports you up to that point, to feel the skills, the power, the speed, the time in the reaction forces.
42:48.018 --> 42:51.622
[SPEAKER_00]: You kind of can't really get up there in a mushy thing.
42:51.642 --> 42:54.546
[SPEAKER_00]: You just don't, you just, your brain won't let you do it.
42:54.566 --> 42:56.708
[SPEAKER_00]: It's to kind of risky it, it's senses.
42:56.808 --> 42:57.910
[SPEAKER_00]: No, this is no good.
42:58.370 --> 43:00.132
[SPEAKER_00]: The ski doesn't react in a certain way.
43:01.414 --> 43:14.569
[SPEAKER_00]: So even if they are into like slightly dialed down, I guarantee they've probably been beforehand you know, racing to a high level in a very stiff boot learning to feel these things to then be able to back it off.
43:15.050 --> 43:17.012
[SPEAKER_01]: Was you agree with that?
43:17.313 --> 43:18.154
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree with that.
43:18.214 --> 43:22.239
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think an important point I like to make is that we're not talking about plug boots.
43:23.840 --> 43:41.380
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we're not talking about the 92 millimeter lasted thin, leatherish liner, but we're talking about the 96, which shares a lot of the, a lot of the performance of the plug boot, but the liners are
43:41.579 --> 43:48.387
[SPEAKER_01]: They're built for all day, they can take the eight hour session, not the two hour session.
43:49.449 --> 43:57.779
[SPEAKER_01]: And the angles are similar, but they're just not quite as demanding, but they're just not quite as formula one, right?
43:58.460 --> 44:10.455
[SPEAKER_00]: So more of a really want to be feeling every single bump, which those birds will give you.
44:10.807 --> 44:23.244
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had a client today, came in with his full World Cup Bill Romans and he's like, yeah, I like the way they ski, but man, I want to be like, he wanted a boot that could just go a little bit more off-piece, right?
44:23.304 --> 44:26.448
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, the little more bang and I'll be, it's still carve and hard.
44:27.149 --> 44:33.658
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where we fell into a 96-class boot because he could feel that it's still hard that energy.
44:33.740 --> 44:38.125
[SPEAKER_01]: but it just wasn't going to be brutal like a World Cup, right?
44:38.165 --> 44:44.932
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he would just, he just needed something more and just a touch tone down.
44:45.012 --> 44:47.996
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still all the performance when you want to push it hard.
44:48.656 --> 44:51.960
[SPEAKER_01]: Just a thin way for not quite so harsh, right?
44:52.240 --> 44:53.442
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right.
44:53.502 --> 44:54.222
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's good.
44:54.263 --> 44:57.526
[SPEAKER_00]: We've kind of now placed this in a spectrum.
44:57.706 --> 45:00.169
[SPEAKER_00]: There is something the plug boot.
45:00.368 --> 45:06.157
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're first hearing about this is like what the world cup, the high-end ski races, that's what they're in.
45:06.518 --> 45:11.546
[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about coming down there a little bit, but not the old mountain type boot.
45:11.847 --> 45:13.269
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I hope it catches on.
45:13.329 --> 45:17.155
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a good term, the ultra performance boot.
45:17.175 --> 45:19.339
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this category instead of...
45:19.724 --> 45:45.934
[SPEAKER_00]: it being a last thing yeah just don't think that gives the right idea it's what are you trying to do with the boot not what is your foot like that should dictate like where your choice goes yeah yeah shouldn't it's like you know just because you run around in hoca's and altra's like these white or toe box shoes along the room doesn't mean that oh my gosh I can't be in a narrow profile book
45:45.914 --> 45:54.046
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a misnomer, it's a, no, it's a, it's an ultra performance creature, not just strictly narrow.
45:55.208 --> 45:57.311
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I wanted to finish this conversation up.
45:57.411 --> 45:59.414
[SPEAKER_00]: I think these has been really good.
45:59.454 --> 46:09.450
[SPEAKER_00]: I've enjoyed it, but actually with a safety thing, slightly related, rip walk souls, non-grip walk bindings.
46:09.830 --> 46:11.753
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel that there hasn't been enough
46:12.880 --> 46:37.420
[SPEAKER_00]: information out there for the general public because we're in this kind of transition period where you just like grip walk souls and bindings that have grip walk and non grip walk compatibility are available and I got I didn't I didn't know that that was a problem and I've seen people injured really badly in a grip walk boot and a regular binding and it didn't release properly
46:37.889 --> 46:50.383
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I want to take this chance now, but you, well, maybe can you explain the two and yeah, and that you, you have to get this combination right or you're at risk.
46:51.664 --> 47:05.179
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a lot of, you know, we were six years into this transition from grip walk away from the standard EIN would call the DIN 5355 soul, which is still the soul on plug race boots.
47:05.294 --> 47:31.217
[SPEAKER_01]: And many of these 96 boots still use that soul, but with now it's for these grip walk 96 boots, you have to have a grip walk compatible binding and a lot of these bindings are more recent, like the question I always ask is how old are your skis and if you hesitate and go, oh, they're like five or six years old unlike.
47:31.737 --> 47:33.299
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you're going to be grateful, compatible.
47:33.640 --> 47:35.262
[SPEAKER_01]: They're likely or not.
47:35.282 --> 47:35.502
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:35.623 --> 47:42.232
[SPEAKER_01]: And like the look pivot, you know, they didn't even become grip walk compatible until about two or three seasons ago.
47:42.753 --> 47:45.497
[SPEAKER_01]: Marker was the first like like six year old markers.
47:46.498 --> 47:47.860
[SPEAKER_01]: Will be grip walk compatible.
47:47.980 --> 47:53.608
[SPEAKER_01]: And then everybody kind of slowly moved in the grip walk direction to really was the next.
47:53.628 --> 47:56.412
[SPEAKER_01]: And a Solomon was a bit of a hold out.
47:56.645 --> 47:58.607
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, look was definitely a holdout.
47:59.007 --> 48:03.611
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but like you got to have a grip block compatible binding.
48:03.772 --> 48:07.635
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have a grip walk or soul soul.
48:07.755 --> 48:08.216
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:08.236 --> 48:08.616
[SPEAKER_00]: So also.
48:08.636 --> 48:09.437
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:09.457 --> 48:09.777
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:10.257 --> 48:12.019
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the boots, you can retrofit.
48:12.640 --> 48:17.264
[SPEAKER_01]: Like some of them, you can go back to the standard soul.
48:17.985 --> 48:19.806
[SPEAKER_01]: But you need to be asking these questions.
48:19.866 --> 48:26.112
[SPEAKER_01]: Like one, how are my body's grip
48:26.345 --> 48:33.975
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I going to be buying a grip block level type loop and you got to make sure that the interface, yeah, you got to make sure.
48:34.158 --> 48:59.811
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I had some real trouble, Archie had a grip walk, soul, boot, which is being great, awesome, because he doesn't just say far, walking around the car park and the end of the day and easier to walk in, but then he's now ski racing a little higher level and on a marketplace, and I'm like, I just want to get a second hand pair of skis, I want to pay a thousand dollars.
49:00.888 --> 49:13.114
[SPEAKER_00]: find some none of them grip or compatible so I'm stuff so I actually ended up having to get another pair of little junior boots that had a den norm sole.
49:13.174 --> 49:15.960
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean of actually a Fisher eventually sent.
49:15.940 --> 49:34.793
[SPEAKER_00]: a replacement normal soul for his group walk once which but it was too late so I actually had to before this state competition gone by a whole new pair of boots so I could use these second hand race skis because it was cheaper to do that combo because the race skis don't really come with
49:35.026 --> 49:42.193
[SPEAKER_00]: a grip or compatible binding, it most of the time because they're expecting you to be in a flat soul.
49:42.213 --> 49:42.553
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
49:42.934 --> 49:43.194
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
49:44.095 --> 49:48.880
[SPEAKER_01]: But manufacturers are now making race style grip or compatible bindings.
49:49.520 --> 49:49.761
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
49:49.901 --> 49:50.461
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got to ask.
49:50.501 --> 49:51.662
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to ask.
49:51.682 --> 49:51.983
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
49:52.683 --> 50:04.375
[SPEAKER_01]: If I have, let's say the atomic remedy boot that comes with a grip rock soul is this
50:04.574 --> 50:04.894
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
50:05.095 --> 50:17.447
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can use this high level binding that has the switch that can go from in, you know, standard in to the new block then, but they are making them now, right?
50:17.467 --> 50:17.567
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
50:17.707 --> 50:19.649
[SPEAKER_01]: But you can't take it for granted, right?
50:19.669 --> 50:20.190
[SPEAKER_01]: Ditches.
50:20.410 --> 50:20.510
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:20.530 --> 50:33.703
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to ask and look at the text backs and ask the store person over the, especially the binding manner who knows more about the bindings than anybody else.
50:34.325 --> 50:42.296
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm glad I had a, oh, you, you know, I'm Chris who moved to, uh, to see, uh, Washington State.
50:43.237 --> 50:43.938
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
50:43.958 --> 50:44.238
[SPEAKER_00]: He came.
50:44.258 --> 50:45.140
[SPEAKER_00]: We got some boost from you.
50:45.160 --> 50:50.627
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, he had a pair of the Fisher curve, old curve ones, and that was getting, he was getting tuned.
50:50.667 --> 50:55.894
[SPEAKER_00]: And the, and the shop guy said, hey, like, what boots are you going to be using with these?
50:56.667 --> 51:00.131
[SPEAKER_00]: And so he messaged me and he said, I've been told, do I need you bindings for these?
51:00.311 --> 51:08.620
[SPEAKER_00]: Now he's in the Langshadow and which has got a grip or a soul and I'm like, you don't don't ski in that binding with that boot.
51:09.121 --> 51:10.522
[SPEAKER_00]: And actually, that's what I want to ask you.
51:10.542 --> 51:20.333
[SPEAKER_00]: What, like, do you know how, like, is it more likely that it's not going to release or is it going to pre-release or are you not sure?
51:21.555 --> 51:26.320
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to, it's not going to release at the level
51:26.452 --> 51:27.734
[SPEAKER_00]: okay.
51:27.754 --> 51:30.557
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to likely jam up.
51:31.278 --> 51:32.079
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay.
51:32.219 --> 51:36.825
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I thought that's what happened with this little, this, this kid that I was king with.
51:37.526 --> 51:38.807
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw it from behind.
51:38.847 --> 51:42.172
[SPEAKER_00]: Two meters away, following them down, little twisting fall.
51:42.913 --> 51:49.100
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just watched the, the ski and the knee go together and then finally release, but it was too late.
51:50.162 --> 51:50.462
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
51:50.983 --> 51:55.328
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, the, the, the bunning was like
51:56.270 --> 52:00.836
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right, the super load didn't just didn't really.
52:00.856 --> 52:11.890
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the grip walk, the grip walk AFD has to be compatible with grip walk because the AFDs don't load line up on a standard sole in a grip walk, so they don't line up exactly.
52:11.910 --> 52:18.860
[SPEAKER_01]: So that that AFD pad has to line up with the angle of the grip walk so that it releases clean.
52:19.581 --> 52:20.742
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
52:21.650 --> 52:22.130
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
52:22.170 --> 52:38.125
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I've been meeting to like somehow get that out and hopefully more of the conflict because once it starts spreading and even friends going, hey, what are you doing with that binding and those boots you got is brand new cool boots with grip walk, but you're riding that eight year old ski.
52:38.185 --> 52:39.286
[SPEAKER_00]: That's dangerous.
52:39.546 --> 52:40.247
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't do that.
52:40.267 --> 52:43.310
[SPEAKER_00]: And because the trick is, you're like, well, I've got this new ski.
52:43.930 --> 52:51.657
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, suddenly a power today, like a one in a month,
52:51.991 --> 52:56.036
[SPEAKER_00]: And the old bonding, bad, bad, bad things can happen.
52:56.056 --> 52:58.860
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a bad, it's a bad deal.
52:58.960 --> 53:05.149
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you have an old vintage style ski, you're going to have to replace the binding on it.
53:05.249 --> 53:10.416
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to keep that old 10-year-old pair that you're still in love with, OK?
53:10.456 --> 53:16.063
[SPEAKER_01]: Did break it to, you're going to have to update the binding on it to a group walk compatible with your new group walk.
53:16.264 --> 53:16.564
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
53:17.050 --> 53:17.812
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
53:17.832 --> 53:21.559
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll just be aware of it and maybe, yes, swap out the souls.
53:21.579 --> 53:25.648
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's going to be a bit of a pain and you've what if you forget.
53:27.331 --> 53:27.652
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
53:27.852 --> 53:29.997
[SPEAKER_00]: A Brent, thanks so much for your time again.
53:30.017 --> 53:31.339
[SPEAKER_01]: No problem.
53:31.379 --> 53:31.800
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
53:31.981 --> 53:34.165
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's always fun to chat.
53:34.313 --> 54:01.249
[SPEAKER_00]: it is yeah i think we get we get across some some good conversations and and i think you help me think about things more and and i like that you're getting stimulated with some of the topics i'm bringing up so yeah just it's great especially this early season point where people are just waiting for the snow thinking about new gear i hope some people of uh yeah got some good advice here and yeah we can help mountain it and everyone can ski better at the
54:01.870 --> 54:02.731
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, me too.
54:02.971 --> 54:12.523
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm still answering emails, um, you know, if, if you, with my contact info, it takes me a little longer now, right?
54:12.563 --> 54:14.144
[SPEAKER_01]: We're starting to ramp up pretty heavy.
54:14.164 --> 54:19.130
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't always can get to the email like in first couple of days.
54:19.190 --> 54:21.313
[SPEAKER_01]: It might take 72 hours or more.
54:22.034 --> 54:25.057
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I'm still happy to answer people questions.
54:26.199 --> 54:27.520
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're in the same show.
54:27.540 --> 54:27.680
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
54:29.222 --> 54:29.903
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
54:30.372 --> 54:45.849
[SPEAKER_00]: So is it so Branson Park City if those who don't know yeah, it's Park City Skibbert Park City Skibbert in Park City Utah Fad friends clients fly from Europe even to come and see Brent all over America as well.
54:45.889 --> 54:46.390
[SPEAKER_00]: So
54:46.994 --> 55:05.880
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you like him what you're hearing now is probably the time because yeah, once winter hits, it gets a little crazy and that was the only other thing I was going to say, like great time, we've mentioned before in podcasts, get your boots fit, like even in the summertime, like in the offstage.
55:05.900 --> 55:07.623
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
55:08.324 --> 55:16.275
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I fire up with the gear, like really radar rock and roll, like August 15th.
55:16.255 --> 55:41.301
[SPEAKER_01]: And by September, I'm rocking a roll and like the racers, the hard cores and structures, you know, they know and right now like right up until Thanksgiving, they're still like this latitude to to gear up, but we have an opening date right around Thanksgiving just like before Thanksgiving and soon as soon as they're on white, there's a white ribbon a death.
55:42.192 --> 55:47.484
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the floodgates just pour wide open and I get pretty busy.
55:47.764 --> 55:48.887
[SPEAKER_01]: I just flat out.
55:50.350 --> 55:50.691
[SPEAKER_00]: Excellent.
55:50.711 --> 55:51.172
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, good.
55:51.472 --> 55:52.274
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad to hear it.
55:53.156 --> 55:54.339
[SPEAKER_00]: Brent, thanks so much for your time.
55:54.399 --> 55:55.942
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you next time.
55:56.584 --> 55:57.265
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Tom.
55:57.532 --> 56:06.206
[SPEAKER_00]: So there you go, another episode of the Big Pitches Gain podcast done and another one on boots with Brent, so thanks Brent for your expertise and wealth of knowledge.
56:07.307 --> 56:08.329
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, just a PS for me.
56:08.469 --> 56:12.015
[SPEAKER_00]: If you haven't checked out Big Pitches Gain in this season, you really want to improve.
56:12.435 --> 56:14.378
[SPEAKER_00]: I highly recommend you go and check it out.
56:14.799 --> 56:21.750
[SPEAKER_00]: My goal is to make the best learning platform out there, an ultimate go-to resource for learning anything.
56:21.730 --> 56:30.112
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, not for beginners, but if you're beyond that intermediate and aspiring, you know, even high-level instructors, I have on there saying they're getting great results.
56:30.774 --> 56:35.807
[SPEAKER_00]: So my promise to you is you'll get some great value, you'll learn some things, and you'll keep improving.
56:35.888 --> 56:38.815
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, go over there and please check it out.
56:39.016 --> 56:41.342
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, until next time, see you later.