Psychological Safety Isn’t Coddling: It’s Your Biggest Performance Advantage

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If you have ever said, suck it up, buttercup, to one of your employees.
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I have to, because I have, right?
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But this is what this episode's probably.
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For anyone that says that habitually.
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Yeah, probably.
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I know the context at which you say it, and I know the context at which most other.
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If you've ever said.
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If you've ever even thought of that as a strategy, it's a strategy.
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Stay tuned.
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She's the CEO.
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He's the marketing and operations guy.
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If it's broken, you need the business fix.
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Oh, happy tax day for me.
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I think that's no no no no.
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Corporate tax day was March fifteenth.
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Yeah.
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No, I just I find it so funny that, uh, like today's episode comes out on April fifteenth and, uh, just it's the bane of so many people's existence.
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And, uh, tomorrow there's some accountants that breathe a sigh of relief.
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Um, not mine, because he can't file our taxes until, like, October, right?
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Yeah.
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No, I get it.
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There's.
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But there's a lot of tax, tax accountants out there that finally get to, to breathe again tomorrow.
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Yeah.
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For them we say congratulations.
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Good job.
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Um way to avoid the stroke this year huh.
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Um now show up at the networking events we've invited you to that you've neglected for the past three and a half months.
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Yeah.
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No, totally.
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Totally makes sense.
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And it's it's once again, it's Ohio.
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It's not spring yet.
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No.
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Nope.
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Tis not spring ish.
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Yeah.
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We might get another blizzard, right?
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More springy days, though.
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There's there's hope, there's hope.
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I don't look out my window and just start to cry.
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No. When do you start to feel like spring is a thing?
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May.
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May I trust that we're going to have decent ish weather by the time we get to May?
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It's still may be cold.
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Occasionally.
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It might like, spit some snow, but it's gonna be fine.
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I see, I look at it differently.
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I look forward to just the days that one or two days that I can get a hold of and, uh, go out and do something.
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Yeah.
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Like, and I mean, if we get a fifty degree day in January, if we get a forty degree day in January, we're outside with shorts on.
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It's fine.
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I'm, I'm outside picking up sticks in the yard just to be like, I need fresh air.
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Yes.
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Um, we talked about this earlier.
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The city mouse country.
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Yeah.
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I need outdoors in order to survive.
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Um, I need to pick up sticks.
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I need to split wood.
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I need to do things that make me feel like I should have a beard.
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Um, I'm like, oh, the weather's crappy.
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Go do more work.
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That's kind of how I feel right now.
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I'm super productive in the winter.
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Super productive for the business in the winter.
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Uh, that being said, we are going to talk about psychological safety, which so many people think is coddling.
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Yeah.
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Frou frou granola stuff.
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No it's not, it's not stuff.
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You going to sing Kumbaya in a circle?
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What are you going to do?
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No, no, I. Yeah, there's I'm excited for this because I feel like so many people have the.
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A wrong perception of this.
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They do that you.
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Someone can feel psychologically safe even as you fire them.
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Yes.
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Psychological safety makes you money.
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Yeah.
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It's the best way to put it.
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Do you want.
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Like you want to make more money?
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Pay attention.
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I'm interested now.
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I was gonna, I was gonna.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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You were going to check out.
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Yeah, I was gonna, I was just gonna leave be like, this is Chris's topic.
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I'm out of here.
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Um, we get so many, especially like old school leaders that are like, hey, this is soft or coddling.
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Um, to me, this is an operational thing.
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Um, it's a requirement.
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Yeah.
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Especially as generationally we have seen how that has changed.
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Um, I have seen old leaders try to apply the just buckle down and do it.
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The, the, the gruff suck it up buttercup attitude.
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Yeah.
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And uh, I see how that just makes people, like, instantly turn up two fingers up and hightail it towards the door.
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Yeah.
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Um, to me, if your team doesn't feel safe to fail, they will kick the can down the road.
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They will hide stuff.
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And until eventually, like you, a terrible example of this, but eventually you end up with a challenger space shuttle.
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Yeah.
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Um, kind of what happened with that.
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So because nobody wants to tell anybody anything.
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No no no no no. So we're going to talk about risk management as psychological safety instead of being foo foo nice.
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Yes.
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Um because people are like, how is Josh going to talk about this?
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Yeah.
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Well, or if you've ever sat in your organization and you're, and you're in a group of people and you've had to make a decision or something has come to light, you're like, why didn't anybody tell me this sooner?
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You don't have a psychologically safe organization.
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Correct.
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The other way that I look at that is to is.
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Can I say this out loud?
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If you can.
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Yeah.
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Granted, there are certain things you shouldn't.
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Um, if you can, then you've got to psychologically safe organization.
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But we're, we're going to spend a whole episode on this.
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We're not stopping here.
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So when, when we hear that old school, like, hey, everyone got participation trophies.
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Yeah.
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What's the HR emotional intelligence definition of this?
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What like and why?
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Yeah.
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Why is psychological safety not coddling a a foundation?
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It's a it's a necessity for high performing teams.
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Yeah.
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So I mean, it's really it's not about making people feel comfortable.
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It's about making it safe to tell the truth.
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That's what psychological safety means.
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And there are three S's of high performance culture, and they all center around psychological safety.
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So the first is speak up.
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So speak up culture.
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This is the foundation.
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People feel able to raise concerns.
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They can admit mistakes.
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They can challenge ideas without the fear of backlash.
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When you're like, I don't understand why people won't tell me things.
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Maybe if you said, I don't understand why people won't tell me things a little bit different, they might.
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If if your response is to scream at them yes.
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Or if someone else in the company says snitches get stitches.
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Yes.
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There's a problem.
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Well, I think it's really simple.
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If your team can't speak up, your business can't speed up.
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Ooh, I like that.
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So we talk about speak up culture.
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If you want to go fast, you've got to be able to have people that are willing to pull on the line and say, hey, this isn't working.
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Hey, this may be an issue.
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Hey, we have a speed bump.
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Let's figure this out.
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Second has the strong standards.
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And this is, I think, where leaders get it right.
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Safety doesn't mean softness.
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Expectations are clear.
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Accountability is consistent.
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And performance still matters in a psychologically safe environment.
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Right?
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Yes.
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High safety with low standards is comfort.
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High safety with high standards is performance.
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So you have strong standards.
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So that's the other.
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So speak up culture strong standards in the last is scalable systems.
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And this is where business it becomes a business advantage because when people speak up in standards are clear, information flows faster, problems get solved earlier and the company can actually grow.
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The faster truth travels, the faster the business performs.
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There's a problem.
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You want to fix it?
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Yes.
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Not duct tape.
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Not duct tape.
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So speak up.
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Culture.
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Strong, standard, scalable systems.
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That's what turns psychological safety from that soft concept into a performance driver.
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So if you have those things in your organization, you're going to model and you're going to have psychological safety.
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And if you don't want to talk about it as saying the word psychological safety, then how about you just change it to high performance culture?
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Because psychologically safe equals high performance, because you're able to see the issues and you're able to, to navigate them in real time.
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Yeah.
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No, I, and I like the high performance culture.
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Yeah.
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Just really.
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I mean, you can release it.
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I say psychological safety all the time, and people like their eyes glaze over and it's like, oh, fine.
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You want to do a high performance culture?
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Yeah, I want that same damn thing.
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Fine.
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I love it when Chrissy gets slightly mad and it's not directed at me.
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It's not you.
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But there are moments where I just look, I'm like, okay, that's fine.
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We can use your words.
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I totally get it because there's so many people that get so hung up on their perception of a specific of what the word is instead of what it actually is and or should be.
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Yes.
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And that's where they get that.
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Yeah.
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No, totally, totally get it.
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Yeah.
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What happens when people don't speak up when they don't feel safe to speak up?
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Oh.
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Disaster.
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Nothing.
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We have culture killers and we talked about that.
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Yes, we have the, you know, the meeting after the meeting.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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You talk about the hidden costs of the meeting after the meeting.
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Yeah.
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I saw that the other day was something and I was I saw a group meeting and then I saw three people meet.
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And then I saw two other people meet outside afterwards.
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And it was funny.
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It wasn't it was a it was in a public place.
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Yeah.
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And I saw the meeting and you can watch and but you could tell it wasn't a friendly conversation.
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Like, hey, how's the wife and kids?
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It was they got like closer together and just kind of.
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Right.
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It became very serious.
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All of a sudden I'm like, oh gosh, I saw this after the meeting.
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Yeah.
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And I saw like two of them.
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And I'm like, oh, that's bad.
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No idea who any of these people are, but I could identify it from across the coffee shop.
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Absolutely.
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And like that person that probably that third person that was in the meeting that left thought like, everybody got along in the meeting and everything's fine.
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Oh, one hundred percent.
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So because here's it's an expensive pattern.
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Um, think about how to phrase it.
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And when people don't feel safe to speak up in the room, they don't stop having opinions.
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They just move their opinion outside of the room.
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Yes.
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So, I mean, they went to the next table.
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It went outside.
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So that's how we get the meeting.
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After the meeting, if they don't feel safe talking about it with you.
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They are still going to talk about it with someone else.
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Correct.
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But you have to think about this in three parts.
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You get silence, you get side conversations and then you get a slowdown.
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So silence in the room is in the actual meeting.
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Everyone nods.
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There's no pushback.
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There's no questions.
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There's no tension.
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We're like, does anybody else have anything else to say?
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And you're like, okay, good.
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And leaders walk out thinking, we have alignment.
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Great meeting.
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Everyone does what they're supposed to, but what you really have is compliance.
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You don't have commitment.
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So people are doing it because so because in that moment, people don't feel safe to disagree.
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They stop telling you what's actually true.
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And then that gets you the meeting after the meeting or the side conversations after.
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So the real conversation happens in the hallway.
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It happens in the slack channel, or it happens in private in the text thread that you don't have, right?
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That that work text thread that includes everyone except you.
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Yes.
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Or when you're in the meeting and all of a sudden you hear a ding and you're like, what's going on?
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And there's one other person and they're texting and the other person's texting and they're texting.
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That won't work.
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Did you understand what they meant?
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We're not going like we're going to have to redo this like that.
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I know you've you've been in those moments.
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I love, I love seeing it because you see the one person type.
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And then five seconds later, you see the other person look at their phone.
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Yes.
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And you're like my favorites when that happens on a Zoom meeting.
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Oh yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And you can see someone and then you're like, okay, which is who's the person?
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And there's been times where I've been in different types of board meetings and different things.
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And I'm like, I know there's a side conversation happening, right?
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Or I'm the side conversation.
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I'm just like, I need you to look at your phone and your phone.
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He's on the phone in part because there may be something in the agenda I need you to see first.
00:13:11.126 --> 00:13:17.126
But I I've seen it in so many cases because you see someone look at their phone and the person that receives the.
00:13:17.126 --> 00:13:18.293
This is what I always love.
00:13:18.293 --> 00:13:23.926
The person that receives the text message isn't bright enough to wait like forty five seconds.
00:13:23.926 --> 00:13:29.593
No, they're just grabbing it and they are straight up.
00:13:29.593 --> 00:13:33.060
And I know that there are people that think, well, at least they're talking to each other.
00:13:33.060 --> 00:13:34.293
So they're collaborating.
00:13:34.293 --> 00:13:36.460
No, they're conspiring.
00:13:36.460 --> 00:13:39.026
No, they're conspiring and they're fragmenting.
00:13:39.026 --> 00:13:43.860
And so that's directly tied to psychological safety.
00:13:43.860 --> 00:13:48.026
If people believe they could say it in the room without consequence, they would.
00:13:48.026 --> 00:13:58.960
I guarantee you those the person that sets the text thread in motion probably could have the conversation without an issue, but they don't feel like it's either worth it or they're going to be heard.
00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:00.660
So forget it.
00:14:00.660 --> 00:14:01.793
I'm just going to do this.
00:14:01.793 --> 00:14:06.393
I'm going to text my work bestie, I'm going to send it to Bob, or I'm going to send it to Carol in accounting.
00:14:06.393 --> 00:14:07.093
Yes.
00:14:07.093 --> 00:14:12.293
And then what these side conversations do is they create a slowdown across the system.
00:14:12.293 --> 00:14:19.893
And this is where cost really gets it hits decisions, get second guessed, work gets redone, energy gets split, trust erodes.
00:14:19.893 --> 00:14:30.126
And instead of solving a problem in ten minutes in a meeting, the organization spends three days debating it in pieces because they've had four different side conversations.
00:14:30.126 --> 00:14:40.493
A second meeting, an email, and then finally, either it breaks and they have to talk about it again, or somebody finally says, you know, this isn't working or I'm not going to do the thing.
00:14:40.493 --> 00:14:42.993
And that's really, I mean, the same thing happened.
00:14:42.993 --> 00:14:45.293
So you've got these things that happen with meetings.
00:14:45.293 --> 00:14:48.692
The same thing happens when there's a mistake, right?
00:14:48.692 --> 00:14:52.393
If people are afraid to bring up an issue early, they don't eliminate the problem.
00:14:52.393 --> 00:14:55.360
They're delaying it and delayed problems.
00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:59.960
I mean, we know they get bigger, they get more expensive, they get harder to fix.
00:14:59.960 --> 00:15:06.960
And research from Harvard Business School shows that teams with low psychological safety are significantly less likely to report errors.
00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:10.725
When we talk about like, how did this issue happen on this product line?
00:15:10.725 --> 00:15:13.093
Or how did this car wind up with this major issue?
00:15:13.093 --> 00:15:21.826
Well, somebody didn't tell them that this was a problem that happened in engineering and engineering, didn't want to tell the organization that was going to be making the part, and it just cascades.
00:15:21.826 --> 00:15:24.225
And that leads directly to worse performance and outcomes.
00:15:24.225 --> 00:15:29.692
So, I mean, it's not about feelings Psychological safety is not about your feelings.
00:15:29.692 --> 00:15:31.793
It is about flow of information.
00:15:31.793 --> 00:15:32.692
Ooh, I like that.
00:15:32.692 --> 00:15:33.560
Yeah.
00:15:33.560 --> 00:15:35.426
I was going to sing the feelings song, but.
00:15:35.426 --> 00:15:37.793
No. Okay, no, don't do that.
00:15:39.026 --> 00:15:39.960
But here's I'll tell you.
00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:40.893
Flow of information.
00:15:40.893 --> 00:15:44.960
If bad news can't travel fast, your business can't move fast.
00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:49.326
I agree, yeah, and bad news typically travels faster than good news.
00:15:49.326 --> 00:15:50.225
Yes.
00:15:50.225 --> 00:15:53.026
So if bad news can't travel fast, what do you think happens to good news?
00:15:53.026 --> 00:15:53.660
Exactly.
00:15:53.660 --> 00:15:58.192
It dies, and I mean, it does.
00:15:58.192 --> 00:15:59.626
Like it dies.
00:15:59.626 --> 00:16:01.093
Yeah, but you know what?
00:16:01.093 --> 00:16:03.259
Here's what I will say to you about side conversations.
00:16:03.259 --> 00:16:06.192
And somebody actually has said this to me in the past.
00:16:06.192 --> 00:16:12.692
If your team won't tell you the truth in the room, they'll tell each other in the hallway and that's where your culture starts to break.
00:16:12.692 --> 00:16:13.225
Yep.
00:16:13.225 --> 00:16:14.826
So yeah.
00:16:14.826 --> 00:16:17.160
Julie Wheeler on our organization, she says it all the time.
00:16:17.160 --> 00:16:20.692
If your team won't tell you the truth in the room, they're going to tell it to each other in the hallway.
00:16:20.692 --> 00:16:22.026
Yeah.
00:16:22.026 --> 00:16:26.826
Which is why she hangs out in the hallway sometimes in other organizations to hear what's going on.
00:16:26.826 --> 00:16:27.993
I've seen it in action.
00:16:27.993 --> 00:16:30.893
Yeah, one hundred percent, one hundred percent.
00:16:30.893 --> 00:16:31.759
That's interesting.
00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:32.225
Interesting.
00:16:32.225 --> 00:16:33.360
Interesting point.
00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:34.126
Yay! Julie.
00:16:34.126 --> 00:16:34.793
Yeah.
00:16:34.793 --> 00:16:35.560
She's good.
00:16:37.393 --> 00:16:39.725
So, like, how do you bring in?
00:16:41.126 --> 00:16:46.759
How do you get people to, to that point where they can say, hey, I can, I can say this in the room?
00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:47.160
Yeah.
00:16:47.160 --> 00:16:53.993
Were they I mean, you want to get your management team to a space that thinks that leading with fear is I mean, helping them understand that it's effective.
00:16:53.993 --> 00:16:55.493
Fear is a tool.
00:16:55.493 --> 00:16:55.893
Sure.
00:16:55.893 --> 00:16:58.060
It's a communication tool.
00:16:58.060 --> 00:17:08.692
So I think, I mean, you tell leaders or I tell leaders, you know, your reaction to bad news determines whether your heel the next piece of bad news, how you react.
00:17:08.692 --> 00:17:11.292
And it also sets the model for everyone else.
00:17:11.292 --> 00:17:12.759
Again, we model what we mandate.
00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:17.526
So I don't try to soften the leader in like getting them to understand why fear is important.
00:17:17.526 --> 00:17:19.059
I try to show them the risk.
00:17:19.059 --> 00:17:25.026
So as a leader, when someone brings you something that you may not like or may say, hey, I don't think this will work.
00:17:25.026 --> 00:17:30.326
I realize that sometimes we think our baby is beautiful, and sometimes our employees tell us our baby is ugly.
00:17:30.326 --> 00:17:31.893
That's okay.
00:17:31.893 --> 00:17:32.725
All right.
00:17:32.725 --> 00:17:34.992
You do not need to react emotionally.
00:17:34.992 --> 00:17:38.093
Shut people down or punish mistakes, right?
00:17:38.093 --> 00:17:41.192
You say, I mean, when somebody gives you feedback, what should you say?
00:17:41.192 --> 00:17:44.059
Josh, whether you agree or not.
00:17:44.059 --> 00:17:44.660
Thank you.
00:17:44.660 --> 00:17:47.625
Yes, I should say thank you.
00:17:47.625 --> 00:17:51.192
And I know you may be thinking other things, but just say thank you.
00:17:51.192 --> 00:17:56.492
The first word may not be thank yes, but it needs to audibly be thank.
00:17:56.492 --> 00:17:57.059
Correct.
00:17:57.059 --> 00:18:03.660
Because needs to come out as thank because it enables your team to understand, okay, they're receiving information and you can say thank you.
00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:04.992
I'm not sure I understand that.
00:18:04.992 --> 00:18:06.593
Can you tell me more?
00:18:06.593 --> 00:18:10.859
And then as they explain, give them the opportunity to communicate with you.
00:18:10.859 --> 00:18:13.026
Understand that you may not be perfect.
00:18:13.026 --> 00:18:15.893
Your baby may have a blemish, and that's okay.
00:18:15.893 --> 00:18:19.225
All right, so the things that we talk about, we have three behaviors.
00:18:19.225 --> 00:18:21.393
We pause before we react.
00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:23.160
Take a deep breath.
00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:24.326
Say thank you.
00:18:24.326 --> 00:18:28.393
We ask instead of assume, huge big one.
00:18:28.393 --> 00:18:29.192
Yes.
00:18:29.192 --> 00:18:34.192
And then we reward truth telling even when it's uncomfortable, right?
00:18:34.192 --> 00:18:35.925
Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
00:18:35.925 --> 00:18:40.292
I'm sure that it probably wasn't easy for you to think about to talk about that with me.
00:18:40.292 --> 00:18:57.660
There have been a couple times in the last few months where we've had some issues at clarity, and we've had some performance issues that we've had to talk through, and it was my assistant who had hired someone and was managing that person, and she had to come to me and say, Christine, I don't know that this person is working out.
00:18:57.660 --> 00:18:58.925
Here's why.
00:18:58.925 --> 00:19:03.692
And for her to do that meant that she had to admit that maybe she didn't make the right hire.
00:19:03.692 --> 00:19:05.326
That's a huge step.
00:19:05.326 --> 00:19:06.692
That's huge in bravery.
00:19:06.692 --> 00:19:11.492
So I acknowledge, you know, I really appreciate that you came and told me this.
00:19:11.492 --> 00:19:14.526
Let's work on how we can build some of these things together and figure it out.
00:19:14.526 --> 00:19:16.893
But I mean, otherwise, I'm just saying everything's working.
00:19:16.893 --> 00:19:17.759
It's like, well, why?
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:18.793
Why isn't it working?
00:19:18.793 --> 00:19:20.593
Oh, because this person isn't working out.
00:19:20.593 --> 00:19:22.460
I mean, like, you've got to be able to.
00:19:22.460 --> 00:19:25.393
I mean, the goal is not perfection.
00:19:25.393 --> 00:19:27.492
The goal is visibility.
00:19:27.492 --> 00:19:36.059
When you're talking about high performance culture, when you're talking about building high performance culture, because we're not going to call it psychological safety because clearly it's a trigger for some of you.
00:19:36.059 --> 00:19:42.460
Um, it's a, it's, you got to remember, high performance isn't about making people feel good.
00:19:42.460 --> 00:19:52.625
It's about making sure the right information gets to the right people at the right time so the business can perform right one hundred percent, one hundred percent.
00:19:52.625 --> 00:19:56.692
If your team can't tell you the truth, you don't have a culture problem.
00:19:56.692 --> 00:19:59.226
You have a performance problem.
00:20:00.526 --> 00:20:01.460
It's performance.
00:20:01.460 --> 00:20:02.692
Yes, it truly is.
00:20:02.692 --> 00:20:03.492
Yes.
00:20:03.492 --> 00:20:07.660
It's funny because I defaulted on your three things.
00:20:07.660 --> 00:20:12.293
I combined them into one for me in order to make sure that I do the right thing each time.
00:20:12.293 --> 00:20:17.226
Yes, I had a question that I just defaulted to every single time.
00:20:17.226 --> 00:20:19.093
What do we need to do to fix this?
00:20:19.093 --> 00:20:23.625
Yes, because if I was able to focus on that, I didn't go to the.
00:20:23.625 --> 00:20:24.559
You idiot.
00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:27.526
No, I didn't go to the.
00:20:27.526 --> 00:20:28.425
Who screwed this up?
00:20:28.425 --> 00:20:30.393
It was just, what do we need to do to fix it?
00:20:30.393 --> 00:20:32.460
Because it's actually what matters.
00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:35.925
And yeah, it kept me from turning into the the irate guy.
00:20:35.925 --> 00:20:36.593
And it's.
00:20:36.593 --> 00:20:39.660
And especially when you're dealing with crisis.
00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:41.826
I do not care how we got here.
00:20:41.826 --> 00:20:45.393
Like we can we can autopsy this later.
00:20:45.393 --> 00:20:47.326
How do we move forward?
00:20:47.326 --> 00:20:54.059
That's always my question is it's like, thank you for telling me, how do we move forward and let's work on this together.
00:20:54.059 --> 00:20:59.460
Because the other part too, is sometimes when your team is coming to you and they're saying, hey, this won't work.
00:20:59.460 --> 00:21:07.160
If you haven't created an environment where they can communicate with you effectively, they may be coming to you when it's absolutely broken.
00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:15.026
And that is another like if they're coming to you and it's an abject failure, that is a huge thing where you need to say thank you.
00:21:15.026 --> 00:21:23.960
I know you may not want to say thank you, but you need to because it sets the precedent for the future one, because they're not going to try new things if they don't feel like they can fail.
00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:29.759
No. And if you're pushing them to innovate, you're pushing them to to do things that are uncomfortable.
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:39.360
You need to give them ten times more praise than you do in any other situation, because they are learning and they are uncomfortable and they want to do the thing and do it well.
00:21:39.360 --> 00:21:44.059
And part of doing the thing and doing it well when we're innovating is that we are going to fail.
00:21:44.059 --> 00:21:45.860
So we want to fail fast.
00:21:45.860 --> 00:21:54.425
So you and you can't let them you past failure doesn't happen when you don't create an environment where they can talk about it.
00:21:54.425 --> 00:21:56.160
So yeah.
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:57.026
Agreed.
00:21:57.026 --> 00:21:59.526
So we've talked about an emotional concept.
00:21:59.526 --> 00:22:03.360
Josh and I and I stayed along.
00:22:03.360 --> 00:22:04.492
You did.
00:22:04.492 --> 00:22:12.526
So how do you take this emotional concept and actually operationalize it, turn it into something a robot like me can handle?
00:22:12.526 --> 00:22:14.692
I didn't say that.
00:22:14.692 --> 00:22:18.026
How does how does this change the way the machine runs.
00:22:18.026 --> 00:22:23.992
How does high performance culture, also known as psychological safety, change the way the machine runs?
00:22:23.992 --> 00:22:26.925
I, like I said, I would always go back to how do we fix this?
00:22:26.925 --> 00:22:31.393
And to me, it was identifying what part of that operational procedure failed.
00:22:31.393 --> 00:22:31.793
Yeah.
00:22:31.793 --> 00:22:38.960
If you have like if this is something, if you're trying something new and it fails, just realize, hey, we're trying something new that failed.
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:39.259
Great.
00:22:39.259 --> 00:22:40.793
We got to try something different.
00:22:40.793 --> 00:22:44.026
If it's something that you do all the time, you should have an SOP for it.
00:22:44.026 --> 00:22:46.393
What failed in the SOP?
00:22:46.393 --> 00:22:49.125
Sometimes it's a person screwed up.
00:22:49.125 --> 00:22:50.460
Sometimes it's a person.
00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:51.759
Forgot something.
00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:58.759
I always look at that as an opportunity, as, hey, do we need to change our operations to adapt for this?
00:22:58.759 --> 00:23:02.460
Or was this just that someone dropped the ball once?
00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:03.526
I'm not going to.
00:23:03.526 --> 00:23:06.259
I'm not going to turn the company on its head for a mistake.
00:23:06.259 --> 00:23:07.526
No. How did this happen?
00:23:07.526 --> 00:23:08.125
Right.
00:23:08.125 --> 00:23:15.826
But if this is something that we start seeing a pattern out of, and I know you guys have heard me say ten thousand times, once is not a pattern.
00:23:15.826 --> 00:23:17.259
Twice is not a pattern.
00:23:17.259 --> 00:23:20.625
You got to have three or four times before it's a pattern.
00:23:20.625 --> 00:23:27.660
If you see a difference in pattern, then you got to realize, hey, do we change our SOPs to adapt for this?
00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:32.559
If you make it Bob screwed up, then once again, people are going to hide.
00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:32.960
Yeah.
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:34.026
Who did this?
00:23:34.026 --> 00:23:35.093
Right.
00:23:35.093 --> 00:23:43.460
If you focus on why did the system allow this to get screwed up, then people are willing to help you fix the machine.
00:23:43.460 --> 00:23:46.860
It's a simple language shift one hundred percent.
00:23:46.860 --> 00:23:50.360
If someone screws up, they typically know it.
00:23:50.360 --> 00:23:50.893
They don't.
00:23:50.893 --> 00:23:52.125
They aren't oblivious to it.
00:23:52.125 --> 00:23:56.860
If they are oblivious to it, then your SOPs really need some work.
00:23:56.860 --> 00:24:00.226
If Bob screwed up, Bob knows Bob's screwed up.
00:24:00.226 --> 00:24:03.625
If you have the right people, Bob wants to fix it.
00:24:03.625 --> 00:24:08.259
Bob doesn't need screamed at about it because Bob already feels bad enough about it.
00:24:08.259 --> 00:24:14.660
Um, so work with Bob to fix it, to make sure and to put in safety guards so it doesn't happen again.
00:24:14.660 --> 00:24:15.192
Mhm.
00:24:15.192 --> 00:24:26.559
If Bob doesn't want to fix it and Bob kicks it down the road, it's time to find either a someone besides Bob, or you have to look in the mirror and like, what is my culture set up for this?
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:27.425
Yeah.
00:24:27.425 --> 00:24:33.960
Have I set this up as a kick the can down the road culture until finally Josh loses his ever loving mind about it?
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:34.660
Yeah.
00:24:34.660 --> 00:24:36.393
Um, it should never get to that point.
00:24:36.393 --> 00:24:36.826
Yeah.
00:24:36.826 --> 00:24:37.360
How did this get?
00:24:37.360 --> 00:24:39.992
Well, we knew eventually you would come back and fix it.
00:24:39.992 --> 00:24:43.259
And if you're the hero in your business all the time, you've.
00:24:43.259 --> 00:24:44.860
You've created that monster.
00:24:44.860 --> 00:24:45.925
That's your fault.
00:24:45.925 --> 00:24:46.992
Yeah, one hundred percent.
00:24:46.992 --> 00:24:48.259
We've talked about that in the past.
00:24:48.259 --> 00:24:49.625
Yeah, it's in business.
00:24:49.625 --> 00:24:51.226
If it happens, it is your fault.
00:24:51.226 --> 00:24:53.259
As the owner, as the leader, always.
00:24:53.259 --> 00:24:54.793
It's your fault.
00:24:54.793 --> 00:25:00.326
Um, the other thing that I have always tried to do is I like to call it the operational red pull cord.
00:25:00.326 --> 00:25:01.726
It's like the one in your garage door.
00:25:01.726 --> 00:25:04.226
It's like the big red button on the assembly line.
00:25:04.226 --> 00:25:05.393
Yeah.
00:25:05.393 --> 00:25:12.593
Anyone, if they see an issue, can pull push the big red button that says do not press.
00:25:12.593 --> 00:25:15.326
They are allowed to push the big red button.
00:25:15.326 --> 00:25:15.925
Yes.
00:25:15.925 --> 00:25:19.526
And you go to that person and say, hey, thank you.
00:25:19.526 --> 00:25:21.425
Like you said, thank you.
00:25:21.425 --> 00:25:22.826
What do we got?
00:25:22.826 --> 00:25:31.860
Um, if you empower people to be able to stop the press, stop the line, you have empowered people to.
00:25:31.860 --> 00:25:38.893
First off, they're going to take that responsibility seriously because they realize they're creating a lot of work for their coworkers and people around them.
00:25:38.893 --> 00:25:40.660
If something needs to be redone.
00:25:40.660 --> 00:25:49.259
Yeah, but they realize that, hey, they are also probably saving those people from a whole lot more work on down the road.
00:25:49.259 --> 00:25:56.925
So giving them that ability to pull the stop allows them to prevent that operational debt of, of a scaling mistake.
00:25:56.925 --> 00:25:57.259
Yeah.
00:25:57.259 --> 00:26:00.226
If you fix it now, it's only going to get worse.
00:26:00.226 --> 00:26:02.726
Um, the example that I want to give is a newspaper.
00:26:02.726 --> 00:26:08.893
If you notice a typo when you've already printed five hundred, five hundred issues, push the button.
00:26:08.893 --> 00:26:09.093
Yeah.
00:26:09.093 --> 00:26:13.425
Because we don't want to notice the typo after we've printed Ten thousand.
00:26:13.425 --> 00:26:15.360
No. And retractions are expensive.
00:26:15.360 --> 00:26:15.793
Yeah.
00:26:15.793 --> 00:26:16.226
All.
00:26:16.226 --> 00:26:17.925
So yeah, that's the thing.
00:26:17.925 --> 00:26:23.160
And it's once once again, it is making sure that you are doing this to.
00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:27.559
To say you can pull this cord in order to make sure everyone around you is successful.
00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:28.326
Yeah.
00:26:28.326 --> 00:26:29.726
It cannot be.
00:26:29.726 --> 00:26:32.593
Once again, snitches get stitches.
00:26:33.860 --> 00:26:43.925
No, I have been in so many businesses where that's the case where you're like, you are afraid to say something because a, I mean, I've been in businesses where I've been screamed at.
00:26:43.925 --> 00:26:44.393
Yes.
00:26:44.393 --> 00:26:47.360
And I'm like, what is this doing?
00:26:47.360 --> 00:26:49.759
I get it, I screwed up, I cost us some money.
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:50.726
I'm sorry.
00:26:50.726 --> 00:27:00.425
This is costing us much more money as you sit here and berate me instead of, let's go fix this, because now that you've berated me, I don't care what the hell you do.
00:27:00.425 --> 00:27:01.425
I'm not fixing it.
00:27:01.425 --> 00:27:02.393
No, go right ahead.
00:27:02.393 --> 00:27:03.160
Fix it yourself.
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:04.226
You say it's such a problem.
00:27:04.226 --> 00:27:05.460
Well, it's your problem then.
00:27:05.460 --> 00:27:06.559
Yeah.
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:12.492
Um, on the back side of that, from a marketing standpoint.
00:27:12.492 --> 00:27:15.492
Marketing is filled with misconceptions.
00:27:16.692 --> 00:27:19.860
It is filled with terrible expectations.
00:27:19.860 --> 00:27:23.160
Your marketing team has to be able to come to tell you.
00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:28.326
It says, hey, we've spent ten grand on this and it's not working.
00:27:28.326 --> 00:27:30.192
Stop spending money on it.
00:27:31.326 --> 00:27:35.559
Um, many marketing companies won't tell you, hey, this isn't working.
00:27:35.559 --> 00:27:36.860
No, they'll just take your money.
00:27:36.860 --> 00:27:39.925
They just they're they're afraid of losing that.
00:27:39.925 --> 00:27:40.893
And then they're afraid of.
00:27:40.893 --> 00:27:41.726
Yeah.
00:27:41.726 --> 00:27:48.160
You have to be able to say that if we aren't at this point, at this point in time, it's failed.
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:49.160
We're done.
00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:49.925
Yeah.
00:27:49.925 --> 00:27:53.992
Marketing is not a not a stick money in one end of the machine.
00:27:53.992 --> 00:27:55.860
It comes out as more money.
00:27:55.860 --> 00:27:58.492
The opposite end of the machine doesn't work that way.
00:27:58.492 --> 00:28:00.692
You have to be willing to try new things.
00:28:00.692 --> 00:28:02.893
If you aren't, you end up with.
00:28:02.893 --> 00:28:10.293
I still remember when I was at the truck dealership, um, owner wanted to put up a billboard because that's what we'd always done.
00:28:10.293 --> 00:28:16.093
I was looking at geofencing I wanted to take and every dealership around us that was our competitors.
00:28:16.093 --> 00:28:19.393
I wanted to show them our ad and we could.
00:28:19.393 --> 00:28:31.192
Eight times we could show them our ad eight times to two times the number of people that would see the billboard on seventy seven south of New Philadelphia.
00:28:32.192 --> 00:28:41.593
And the way I presented it to the owner was, hey, if we try this, we're able to do this and we can take four hundred dollars a month.
00:28:41.593 --> 00:28:46.460
Soak it in diesel fuel in the parking lot and light it on fire and still be ahead.
00:28:46.460 --> 00:28:49.293
His response was, no, I want the billboard.
00:28:49.293 --> 00:28:50.425
I want the billboard.
00:28:50.425 --> 00:28:54.425
Because once again, no failure, no failures allowed.
00:28:54.425 --> 00:28:57.492
And the billboard, first off, you don't know if it's a win.
00:28:57.492 --> 00:28:58.360
No. So it can.
00:28:58.360 --> 00:29:00.026
How many people say I saw the billboard?
00:29:00.026 --> 00:29:01.660
No, they never know.
00:29:01.660 --> 00:29:06.360
But if if if you don't know if it fails, you can you can get away with that.
00:29:06.360 --> 00:29:10.726
Um, the thing that the radical directness.
00:29:10.726 --> 00:29:12.326
Is that the polite way to call it for me?
00:29:12.326 --> 00:29:13.326
Radical directness.
00:29:13.326 --> 00:29:13.960
Yeah.
00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:15.992
Um. You are clear and kind.
00:29:15.992 --> 00:29:18.460
Clarity's kindness I am, to be clear, is to be kind.
00:29:18.460 --> 00:29:20.460
I am radical directness.
00:29:20.460 --> 00:29:21.226
Very true.
00:29:21.226 --> 00:29:24.125
Safety does not mean no tough talk.
00:29:24.125 --> 00:29:29.660
It means the team knows exactly where they stand, so they don't have to guess.
00:29:29.660 --> 00:29:35.326
Um. I have been in positions before where I had no idea where I was stood with the company.
00:29:35.326 --> 00:29:37.992
I'm like, am I losing my job?
00:29:37.992 --> 00:29:41.526
Constantly thinking like, you're going to lose your job is no way.
00:29:41.526 --> 00:29:43.226
First off, it's stressful as hell.
00:29:43.226 --> 00:29:45.759
Second off, I'm not going to put any effort in.
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:48.793
No. And if you keep thinking you're always going to lose it, you're going to find another one.
00:29:48.793 --> 00:29:52.026
One hundred percent, one hundred percent.
00:29:52.026 --> 00:29:55.393
And then people are like, hey, no one wants to work, correct?
00:29:55.393 --> 00:29:59.660
No. No one wants to work in an environment where they have no idea where they stand.
00:29:59.660 --> 00:30:03.192
That directness also comes across as consistency.
00:30:03.192 --> 00:30:08.492
Um, I've worked for people where you like, you had no idea what their answer was going to be.
00:30:08.492 --> 00:30:12.726
if I went with someone, like to tell someone, hey, we'd like to try this marketing initiative.
00:30:12.726 --> 00:30:15.160
We'd like to try this operational initiative.
00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:16.460
You knew what their answer was up front.
00:30:16.460 --> 00:30:17.660
You just needed their blessing.
00:30:17.660 --> 00:30:18.692
Yeah.
00:30:18.692 --> 00:30:21.893
I've worked for people where you had no idea what they were going to say.
00:30:21.893 --> 00:30:22.692
Um, you could be like.
00:30:22.692 --> 00:30:23.660
I think they're in a good mood today.
00:30:23.660 --> 00:30:25.526
I'm going to go ask and you would ask them.
00:30:25.526 --> 00:30:26.059
They're in a good mood.
00:30:26.059 --> 00:30:27.460
And they're like, what the hell are you talking about?
00:30:27.460 --> 00:30:28.726
You're like, oh, wrong, wrong.
00:30:28.726 --> 00:30:29.460
Good mood.
00:30:29.460 --> 00:30:29.860
Yeah, wrong.
00:30:29.860 --> 00:30:30.625
Good mood.
00:30:32.526 --> 00:30:34.860
With that, you remove the fear of the unknown.
00:30:34.860 --> 00:30:35.259
Yeah.
00:30:35.259 --> 00:30:38.492
No one wants to run into a dark room.
00:30:39.860 --> 00:30:42.526
People are willing to run into a room that has the lights on.
00:30:42.526 --> 00:30:44.259
No one wants to run into a dark room.
00:30:44.259 --> 00:30:47.393
No. If you have the lights on for your people, guess what?
00:30:47.393 --> 00:30:49.526
They're going to be willing to run in there for you.
00:30:49.526 --> 00:30:57.293
The last thing that I want to talk about, because I've been in these situations, and I'm sure that you have talked to people about these situations, is chill the hell out.
00:30:58.826 --> 00:31:02.360
It may it may be a big deal in the moment.
00:31:02.360 --> 00:31:05.960
Yes, it may be a big emotional deal for you.
00:31:05.960 --> 00:31:06.992
Yeah.
00:31:06.992 --> 00:31:09.393
Don't make it an emotional deal for your employees.
00:31:09.393 --> 00:31:10.226
No.
00:31:10.226 --> 00:31:13.326
Um. Anger defaults to yelling.
00:31:13.326 --> 00:31:14.793
This is why I said earlier.
00:31:14.793 --> 00:31:17.793
I defaulted to when someone came to me with a problem.
00:31:17.793 --> 00:31:18.593
How do we fix it?
00:31:18.593 --> 00:31:23.992
Yeah, because if I approached it with that mindset, I wasn't allowed to get mad.
00:31:23.992 --> 00:31:27.559
No, because I instantly went to let's fix this as soon as we can.
00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:29.192
So it's not costing us more money.
00:31:29.192 --> 00:31:29.960
Let's fix this.
00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:32.125
So it's not costing us more people.
00:31:32.125 --> 00:31:37.893
And if I, if I go at it that direction, that person feels safe in coming to me.
00:31:37.893 --> 00:31:44.492
Not like I'm going to turn into one of those inflatable used car things with screaming.
00:32:21.822 --> 00:32:31.722
Um, that all being said, some of the, one of the things that I kind of wanted to discuss with this, how do you do the messenger audit?
00:32:31.722 --> 00:32:35.822
So what happens when like the person that brings the bad news?
00:32:35.822 --> 00:32:43.623
Yes, because sometimes it's the person that brings the bad news isn't necessarily the one that caused the bad news?
00:32:43.623 --> 00:32:46.289
No. Um, I don't once again.
00:32:46.289 --> 00:32:47.423
Snitches get stitches.
00:32:47.423 --> 00:32:50.789
Yeah, they may just be the brave person who knows how to handle you.
00:32:50.789 --> 00:32:51.789
Which is sad.
00:32:51.789 --> 00:32:52.855
And that's that's.
00:32:52.855 --> 00:32:55.722
So how do you handle that person?
00:32:55.722 --> 00:32:59.990
Because the last thing that we want to do is we don't want to kill the messenger.
00:32:59.990 --> 00:33:00.522
Yeah.
00:33:00.522 --> 00:33:05.322
Um, we also don't want like, we don't want our company to be set up.
00:33:05.322 --> 00:33:07.022
So we only have one messenger.
00:33:07.022 --> 00:33:07.389
Yes.
00:33:07.389 --> 00:33:10.923
Because then snitches get stitches.
00:33:10.923 --> 00:33:13.722
How do how do you audit for the messenger?
00:33:13.722 --> 00:33:19.389
So I would say in healthy high performing cultures, the messenger gets thanked.
00:33:19.389 --> 00:33:20.556
We say thank you.
00:33:20.556 --> 00:33:21.222
Yeah.
00:33:21.222 --> 00:33:21.623
That's it.
00:33:21.623 --> 00:33:24.190
Because they're protecting the business and unhealthy ones.
00:33:24.190 --> 00:33:26.722
They get blamed and that's how issues get buried.
00:33:26.722 --> 00:33:33.556
And so, I mean, if you are going to punish the person that brings you bad news, congratulations.
00:33:33.556 --> 00:33:36.423
You have just trained everyone to hide their problems.
00:33:36.423 --> 00:33:36.789
Yeah.
00:33:36.789 --> 00:33:39.289
And you're like, I don't think my business has any issues.
00:33:39.289 --> 00:33:46.089
And they are in the back with the dumpster fire, like just fanning the flames because they're afraid to freaking tell you.
00:33:46.089 --> 00:33:50.690
You just close the lid on the dumpster and it's just there, like, oh, I heard an explosion in the back.
00:33:50.690 --> 00:33:51.490
I wonder what that is.
00:33:51.490 --> 00:33:56.623
That is your business blowing up because you've created a culture where no one wants to tell you there's a problem.
00:33:56.623 --> 00:33:58.855
And then you're like, why didn't anybody tell me?
00:33:58.855 --> 00:33:59.722
Because of you.
00:33:59.722 --> 00:34:01.623
Because you've created this environment.
00:34:01.623 --> 00:34:05.289
If you have ever said that statement, why did why didn't anyone tell me?
00:34:05.289 --> 00:34:06.522
Yeah, you already know the answer.
00:34:06.522 --> 00:34:07.190
You know the answer.
00:34:07.190 --> 00:34:07.556
It's you.
00:34:07.556 --> 00:34:10.722
And there have been times where I've said that in my organization, I'm like, oh crap, I've got a problem.
00:34:10.722 --> 00:34:11.556
I got to fix this.
00:34:11.556 --> 00:34:15.222
Yeah, there are certain things like that is a red flag to yourself.
00:34:15.222 --> 00:34:17.423
Why didn't anyone tell me it is?
00:34:17.423 --> 00:34:18.023
Yeah.
00:34:18.023 --> 00:34:23.789
Now, at some point, as you continue to grow your business, you build a high performance culture.
00:34:23.789 --> 00:34:30.123
There may be a moment when you go, I had no idea that was an issue because your team members have already fixed it for you.
00:34:30.123 --> 00:34:30.523
Correct.
00:34:30.523 --> 00:34:31.322
And that's okay.
00:34:31.322 --> 00:34:32.423
You celebrate that.
00:34:32.423 --> 00:34:37.456
When you find that out, they're like, hey, we want to tell you something that happened, but we already fixed it.
00:34:37.456 --> 00:34:37.990
Great.
00:34:37.990 --> 00:34:38.356
Yeah.
00:34:38.356 --> 00:34:39.322
Have a party.
00:34:39.322 --> 00:34:40.322
Yeah.
00:34:40.322 --> 00:34:42.190
not pizza party, but have a party.
00:34:42.190 --> 00:34:43.023
Have a party?
00:34:45.056 --> 00:34:47.322
What happens to innovation with fear?
00:34:48.556 --> 00:34:49.955
Oh, um.
00:34:51.989 --> 00:34:54.755
Chris Christie is morning innovation.
00:34:54.755 --> 00:34:56.690
Yeah, that was a mournful sound for me.
00:34:56.690 --> 00:34:59.022
It is because you can't have them in the same room.
00:34:59.022 --> 00:34:59.989
No you can't.
00:34:59.989 --> 00:35:00.989
You just can't.
00:35:00.989 --> 00:35:05.155
No. Because if people are afraid of being wrong, they are only going to bring you safe ideas.
00:35:05.155 --> 00:35:08.355
And safe ideas rarely move the needle.
00:35:08.355 --> 00:35:09.056
Correct.
00:35:09.056 --> 00:35:13.789
So innovation requires permission to try and fail and adjust.
00:35:13.789 --> 00:35:15.222
Fear creates compliance.
00:35:15.222 --> 00:35:17.022
Safety creates creativity.
00:35:17.022 --> 00:35:17.389
Yeah.
00:35:17.389 --> 00:35:19.322
If people are allowed to fail.
00:35:19.322 --> 00:35:23.155
Um, now, what I always like to say with that is there should be guardrails on that.
00:35:23.155 --> 00:35:23.789
Absolutely.
00:35:23.789 --> 00:35:25.322
Where is the failure point?
00:35:25.322 --> 00:35:25.755
Yes.
00:35:25.755 --> 00:35:28.690
When when do we call time of death?
00:35:28.690 --> 00:35:30.155
Yes.
00:35:30.155 --> 00:35:44.922
Or like, I mean, it's one thing when you're having, if you're brainstorming, if you're like when we talk about there are no bad ideas, like we want to generate a lot of things doesn't mean we're going to accept all the ideas, but let's throw everything out when we're thinking about what we want to talk about, what we want to innovate.
00:35:44.922 --> 00:35:47.755
You've got to give them permission to be creative.
00:35:47.755 --> 00:35:49.555
I agree and not be judgy about it.
00:35:49.555 --> 00:35:51.722
And you can I mean, like somebody says, hey, I think we should do this.
00:35:51.722 --> 00:35:53.289
And in your mind, you're going, that's not going to work.
00:35:53.289 --> 00:35:56.755
Like just say thank you for five freaking minutes.
00:35:56.755 --> 00:35:59.489
Let them talk about it because it may get you to a point.
00:35:59.489 --> 00:36:04.322
Now, I'm not saying that like if you sell insurance and you're like, all of a sudden you're like, we're going to sell shoes.
00:36:04.322 --> 00:36:10.689
Like, that's maybe not a good idea, but because I made an Al Bundy reference before.
00:36:10.689 --> 00:36:11.255
Yes.
00:36:12.522 --> 00:36:13.189
You're welcome.
00:36:13.189 --> 00:36:18.789
The, the, the other thing that I see with that and I love that is I have had some amazing ideas come out of bad ideas.
00:36:18.789 --> 00:36:19.355
Yes.
00:36:19.355 --> 00:36:22.989
Because some of my best have come from a disaster I created.
00:36:22.989 --> 00:36:31.722
Well, not only that, but someone has presented an idea to me and I say, okay, thank you and someone else presents something.
00:36:31.722 --> 00:36:33.789
It triggered an idea for someone else.
00:36:33.789 --> 00:36:35.055
It jumps right?
00:36:35.055 --> 00:36:40.755
So the bad idea may eventually evolve into a good idea.
00:36:40.755 --> 00:36:43.555
But if you shoot it down like skeet shooting.
00:36:43.555 --> 00:36:47.889
Yeah, where they're like, pull know it.
00:36:47.889 --> 00:36:53.755
Every idea is gonna like, you're never going to get that innovation out of it and you're just going to stay stuck where you are.
00:36:53.755 --> 00:36:59.689
No, there's a great example, and I can't remember the book that it was from, but it was like the fast food.
00:36:59.689 --> 00:37:00.589
I think it was McDonald's.
00:37:00.589 --> 00:37:02.822
They were in a room trying to innovate.
00:37:02.822 --> 00:37:11.689
You know, wouldn't it be a great idea if someone could just drive up and hand somebody a bag of food that they just said they needed, but they never had to even talk to the drive through.
00:37:11.689 --> 00:37:14.489
And at that point in time, we were like, well, that's absolutely stupid.
00:37:14.489 --> 00:37:16.422
How in the world would that ever happen?
00:37:17.555 --> 00:37:17.822
Hello.
00:37:17.822 --> 00:37:25.989
Now that we have apps on our phones where we just type in exactly what we want, drive magically to them, and they can tell exactly who we are because of the app on our phone, and they shove the bag of food to us.
00:37:25.989 --> 00:37:28.755
Like those are the things that happen.
00:37:28.755 --> 00:37:33.655
But I mean, only because somebody said, that's a really interesting idea, right?
00:37:33.655 --> 00:37:35.089
Let's say that's stupid.
00:37:35.089 --> 00:37:39.522
They went, oh, we don't know how that's going to work, but we can think about that.
00:37:39.522 --> 00:37:40.522
This is a dumb idea.
00:37:40.522 --> 00:37:43.289
Let's talk about it enough till it becomes somewhat smart for us.
00:37:43.289 --> 00:37:43.889
Until it comes.
00:37:43.889 --> 00:37:46.255
Got to give things room to breathe.
00:37:46.255 --> 00:37:47.755
Something that I want to talk about is.
00:37:47.755 --> 00:37:52.322
I mean, I preach the success as a shared thing all the time as our core value.
00:37:52.322 --> 00:37:55.722
I feel, and I think you feel the same way.
00:37:55.722 --> 00:38:00.522
You need to share as much bad news as you do good news, or at least you need to share them in the same fashion.
00:38:00.522 --> 00:38:00.989
Yeah.
00:38:00.989 --> 00:38:05.122
Um, when stuff goes sideways, share it.
00:38:05.122 --> 00:38:05.655
Yes.
00:38:05.655 --> 00:38:06.989
Don't call Bob out.
00:38:06.989 --> 00:38:09.122
Be like, Bob screwed this up.
00:38:09.122 --> 00:38:12.389
Um, we everyone knows.
00:38:12.389 --> 00:38:13.889
And including Bob.
00:38:13.889 --> 00:38:17.189
We had a problem in X. We have taken care of it.
00:38:17.189 --> 00:38:22.322
Here's how we fixed it, and here's what we are doing to make sure that it doesn't happen in the future.
00:38:22.322 --> 00:38:23.355
Go ahead and call that out.
00:38:23.355 --> 00:38:29.155
In the same sense, when Bob says, hey, we had this problem that I fixed, like you said.
00:38:29.155 --> 00:38:30.922
Share that, get that out there.
00:38:30.922 --> 00:38:32.589
Make sure that the people know about it.
00:38:32.589 --> 00:38:37.655
Um, what I don't like is when there's only good or only bad news.
00:38:37.655 --> 00:38:41.089
Once again, you're creating a culture of fluff.
00:38:41.089 --> 00:38:44.155
Yes, I've been in companies where they're like, hey, everything's great.
00:38:44.155 --> 00:38:47.055
And I'm like, I'm pretty sure it's not correct.
00:38:47.055 --> 00:38:48.389
I'm pretty sure it's not.
00:38:48.389 --> 00:38:51.155
I'm like, do you work here?
00:38:51.155 --> 00:38:53.289
Have you been in the building recently?
00:38:53.289 --> 00:38:55.789
Um, this is an absolute shit show.
00:38:56.955 --> 00:38:58.155
Here, I'm gonna hand you a marshmallow.
00:38:58.155 --> 00:38:59.489
Let's go toast next to the dumpster.
00:38:59.489 --> 00:39:01.189
I mean, like, right?
00:39:01.189 --> 00:39:05.655
Yes, yes, I see it all the time where people don't share.
00:39:05.655 --> 00:39:06.155
Yeah.
00:39:06.155 --> 00:39:08.289
The the bad news with the good news.
00:39:08.289 --> 00:39:10.255
You have to have some bad news in your company.
00:39:10.255 --> 00:39:15.689
Sometimes I think if you want people to act like owners, you have to trust them with the whole story of the organization.
00:39:15.689 --> 00:39:16.789
And you don't have to tell.
00:39:16.789 --> 00:39:17.822
You do not.
00:39:17.822 --> 00:39:19.655
Do I have to tell them every nitty gritty detail?
00:39:19.655 --> 00:39:24.355
No. But you have to give them enough to be able to understand what's going on.
00:39:24.355 --> 00:39:25.289
I totally agree.
00:39:25.289 --> 00:39:30.289
So like, what should people take away from this today to me?
00:39:30.289 --> 00:39:33.655
Um, do you ever do the, uh.
00:39:33.655 --> 00:39:35.389
I screwed up meeting.
00:39:35.389 --> 00:39:36.489
Yes.
00:39:36.489 --> 00:39:37.455
Yes I do.
00:39:38.789 --> 00:39:47.555
I usually do it in a way to where I'm like, I they always, they always know I screwed up when I'm like, hey, guys, I'm sorry, but we need to we need to work on this.
00:39:47.555 --> 00:39:51.322
Um, I did, I did it, I did a bad, bad thing.
00:39:51.322 --> 00:39:53.755
Yeah, I model what I mandate with people.
00:39:53.755 --> 00:39:56.555
So I admit when I, I did it wrong.
00:39:56.555 --> 00:39:57.589
Well same thing.
00:39:57.589 --> 00:40:03.122
And I try and keep our employees and contractors all set up with like, here's what went right.
00:40:03.122 --> 00:40:03.922
Here's what went wrong.
00:40:03.922 --> 00:40:05.789
So yeah, I do the I screwed up meeting.
00:40:05.789 --> 00:40:06.055
Yeah.
00:40:06.055 --> 00:40:08.889
I say reward the truth, right?
00:40:08.889 --> 00:40:10.755
What you reward gets repeated.
00:40:10.755 --> 00:40:13.522
So make sure that honesty is one of the things that you reward.
00:40:13.522 --> 00:40:14.955
So they repeat it.
00:40:14.955 --> 00:40:15.555
Correct?
00:40:15.555 --> 00:40:16.155
Yeah.
00:40:16.155 --> 00:40:16.755
You don't need it.
00:40:16.755 --> 00:40:17.155
Hey, Bob.
00:40:17.155 --> 00:40:20.389
Glad you screwed that up, but give him a pie.
00:40:20.389 --> 00:40:23.455
No, thanks for coming to me, Bob.
00:40:23.455 --> 00:40:30.889
The other one that I like is check the telephone game is to make sure that, like, you are still hearing the full story.
00:40:30.889 --> 00:40:31.355
Yeah.
00:40:31.355 --> 00:40:38.022
Um, if there is a dumpster fire out back that they put out, you should get the full story on.
00:40:38.022 --> 00:40:49.655
Like the so many times I have seen it where this was a large dumpster fire, like a construction dumpster fire and someone's like, hey, the, the, the, the garbage can caught on fire.
00:40:49.655 --> 00:40:50.155
Yeah.
00:40:50.155 --> 00:40:52.689
Um, no, no, no, no, this was a dumpster fire.
00:40:52.689 --> 00:40:53.289
Yeah.
00:40:54.789 --> 00:40:57.989
So make sure that what you're hearing is actually what happened.
00:40:57.989 --> 00:40:59.755
Yeah, I would say go to the source.
00:40:59.755 --> 00:41:04.755
So yes, you have middle managers that sometimes are the ones that are really talking to you in the leadership team.
00:41:04.755 --> 00:41:08.289
But there is there is a lot of benefit in walking the floor.
00:41:08.289 --> 00:41:15.855
So build a habit of hearing directly from the front lines to skip that layer occasionally, because clarity comes from proximity, not just reports.
00:41:15.855 --> 00:41:17.189
Yeah, one hundred percent.
00:41:17.189 --> 00:41:18.289
You have to be out there.
00:41:18.289 --> 00:41:19.189
Yeah, yeah.
00:41:19.189 --> 00:41:20.189
Talk to people.
00:41:20.189 --> 00:41:22.889
Um, and that, that comes from that directness.
00:41:22.889 --> 00:41:28.289
Um, like be out like, be direct with the people, open that line of conversation with them.
00:41:28.289 --> 00:41:38.189
So that way you can have that quick conversation instead of Bob feeling like he needs to butter you up for twenty minutes to say, hey, the dumpsters on fire.
00:41:38.189 --> 00:41:40.589
And I would say, normalize those hard conversations.
00:41:40.589 --> 00:41:46.155
You've got to make it clear that those conversations are are part of how the team operates.
00:41:46.155 --> 00:41:47.722
It's not a sign that something's wrong.
00:41:47.722 --> 00:41:51.089
It's a sign of what is right in the organization.
00:41:51.089 --> 00:41:53.122
Can you have too much psychological safety?
00:41:54.155 --> 00:41:56.355
Um, I don't think so.
00:41:56.355 --> 00:42:01.089
You can have too much comfort, I like that, yeah, no, I agree with that.
00:42:01.089 --> 00:42:01.322
Yeah.
00:42:01.322 --> 00:42:03.489
High safety plus low standards equals comfort.
00:42:03.489 --> 00:42:05.955
High safety plus high standards equals performance.
00:42:05.955 --> 00:42:12.322
So I don't think you can ever have too much of it because when real safety is paired with standards, people feel safe.
00:42:12.322 --> 00:42:12.589
Right.
00:42:12.589 --> 00:42:14.489
And that's I feel like.
00:42:14.489 --> 00:42:14.689
Yeah.
00:42:14.689 --> 00:42:17.955
And I feel like psychological safety is just knowing what to expect.
00:42:17.955 --> 00:42:19.755
So much of what leadership is.
00:42:19.755 --> 00:42:23.189
And what we talk about is, is expectations and setting those expectations.
00:42:23.189 --> 00:42:28.955
They know if something goes bad, they're going to what's going to happen as long as they feel comfortable with what's going to happen.
00:42:28.955 --> 00:42:29.522
Great.
00:42:29.522 --> 00:42:30.189
Yeah.
00:42:30.189 --> 00:42:36.022
What's the red flag word for manager that they use to signal their accidentally coddling instead of leading?
00:42:36.022 --> 00:42:37.655
There's so many of them.
00:42:37.655 --> 00:42:38.822
It's fine.
00:42:38.822 --> 00:42:40.222
It's fine.
00:42:40.222 --> 00:42:46.455
And all I can think of is that meme of the dog drinking a beer in that bar that is on fire.
00:42:46.455 --> 00:42:46.855
Yeah.
00:42:46.855 --> 00:42:47.222
Going.
00:42:47.222 --> 00:42:47.922
It's fine.
00:42:47.922 --> 00:42:49.289
Everything's fine.
00:42:51.855 --> 00:42:54.322
To me that is that that that is it.
00:42:54.322 --> 00:42:54.855
Yeah.
00:42:54.855 --> 00:42:57.455
Um, now, granted, as business owners, whenever we talk to each other.
00:42:57.455 --> 00:42:58.189
How's things going?
00:42:58.189 --> 00:42:59.689
Oh, amazing.
00:42:59.689 --> 00:43:04.655
Um. Really amazing.
00:43:04.655 --> 00:43:06.289
Everyone's like, yeah, no.
00:43:04.655 --> 00:43:06.289
They're awesome.
00:43:06.289 --> 00:43:07.489
Got good stuff going on.
00:43:07.489 --> 00:43:07.922
Yeah.
00:43:07.922 --> 00:43:10.622
We're we're not sure how we're going to make payroll this week, but we're good.
00:43:10.622 --> 00:43:17.222
No. And so to me, it's, it's one thing, but don't let the external talk go internal.
00:43:17.222 --> 00:43:17.489
Yeah.
00:43:17.489 --> 00:43:18.955
If there's issues you need to talk about.
00:43:18.955 --> 00:43:19.922
Talk about them.
00:43:19.922 --> 00:43:21.089
Yeah.
00:43:21.089 --> 00:43:22.889
Uh, what's the red flag word for you?
00:43:22.889 --> 00:43:23.355
Is it?
00:43:23.355 --> 00:43:24.089
Is it.
00:43:24.089 --> 00:43:25.422
Everything's fine.
00:43:25.422 --> 00:43:26.722
Yeah, it actually is.
00:43:27.822 --> 00:43:28.422
How's it going?
00:43:28.422 --> 00:43:29.789
It's going.
00:43:29.789 --> 00:43:31.955
They say it's fine or it's going.
00:43:31.955 --> 00:43:32.589
How's your day?
00:43:32.589 --> 00:43:33.289
It's a day.
00:43:33.289 --> 00:43:33.855
Those are the.
00:43:33.855 --> 00:43:37.289
Those are the three where I'm like the one.
00:43:37.289 --> 00:43:40.755
When they say it's a day, I'm like, I want three words that describe this day.
00:43:40.755 --> 00:43:44.755
And then they'll usually look at me and I'm like, three words.
00:43:44.755 --> 00:43:47.389
You give me your three, I'll give you my three.
00:43:48.822 --> 00:43:49.955
That breaks it.
00:43:49.955 --> 00:43:53.222
And so then they know, oh, I can tell her whatever.
00:43:55.455 --> 00:43:58.455
Is it bad that usually all three of mine are a swear word?
00:43:58.455 --> 00:44:02.455
Sometimes they are in the HR space too, so we're used to it.
00:44:02.455 --> 00:44:08.355
I kind of expect if one of them isn't, I'm like, wow, how's it really that good of a day?
00:44:11.622 --> 00:44:12.122
Or what?
00:44:12.122 --> 00:44:12.955
It's that bad.
00:44:12.955 --> 00:44:16.289
We can't we can't use you can't use your favorite word, right?
00:44:16.289 --> 00:44:17.955
So right.
00:44:17.955 --> 00:44:19.455
Nice, I love it.
00:44:19.455 --> 00:44:20.922
I absolutely love it.
00:44:20.922 --> 00:44:30.055
That to me seems like a great place to end this week because we feel psychologically safe enough to talk about the shit show that sometimes is life.
00:44:32.622 --> 00:44:33.455
Do us a favor.
00:44:33.455 --> 00:44:35.622
Go to business Podcast.com.
00:44:35.622 --> 00:44:39.789
We would love to hear what you want to hear next.
00:44:39.789 --> 00:44:41.722
What are the problems in your business?
00:44:41.722 --> 00:44:44.689
You can stay anonymous if you don't want to admit it to other business owners.
00:44:44.689 --> 00:44:45.122
That's fine.
00:44:45.122 --> 00:44:46.055
Send it in the DMs.
00:44:46.055 --> 00:44:48.355
We'll keep it anonymous for you.
00:44:48.355 --> 00:44:55.289
Um, that we're going to talk about, I believe next week is when to coach, when to correct and when to.
00:44:55.289 --> 00:44:58.122
Oh yes, that's a fun HR topic.
00:44:58.122 --> 00:44:58.822
It really is.
00:44:58.822 --> 00:44:59.655
It really is.
00:44:59.655 --> 00:45:01.255
Do us a favor, take care of yourself.
00:45:01.255 --> 00:45:06.055
If you can take care of someone else too, we will see you very, very soon.