Post-Race Blues After Ironman: What the Research Says (and How to Prevent It) Ep 131

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Welcome back to the Find Your Edge podcast.
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I am your host, Coach Chris Newport, and I am here with Dr.
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Carly Frost Poirier.
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Am I saying that right?
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I always feel like I code your last name.
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All the ways work.
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I'm used to it.
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You called me Carly and not Charlie, so it was a good start.
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Okay.
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Good gracious.
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So if you've heard Carly on the podcast before, which I hope you have because she is a brilliant mind that I am so grateful to have on our team.
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She just finished her dissertation and I was like, can we please talk about this on the podcast?
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And she's like, oh my gosh, I would like to throw it all away and like take a break from it.
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So you guys have to be super patient, and I'm gonna try to extract as much greatness out of her after she's like, Can I just take a nap for the next year?
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Right.
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Yes, yeah.
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I think I'm I think I'm still less than a month out from having defended my dissertation.
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So yeah, I haven't quite digested and I don't know basked in the glory of graduation just yet, maybe, but we'll we'll chat.
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I hope I have some useful things or at least interesting tidbits for you guys, and I don't know.
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We'll see what Chris asked me.
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We'll we'll go from there.
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I find the irony so thick that you're coming off like your dissertation was about coming off of Iron Man.
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Yeah.
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And the irony that you're coming off of dissertation, probably feeling the same way.
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Absolutely.
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So give us the nerdy tie title and let's go from there.
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My my official dissertation title is Predicting Post-Race Blues, the role of passion, goal satisfaction, and life balance.
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So I researched long course traffics, both 70.3 and 140.6 distance, and looked at a couple possible predictors of what could be contributing to the occurrence of post-race blues in those athletes.
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So what got you what got you interested in this topic?
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What made you think, you know what?
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I'm gonna dive real deep into this.
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Because I experienced the post-race blues.
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That was my first one.
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Like yeah, because you you've done several Iron Man, which is amazing.
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So tell us about that experience.
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Which one?
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Yes.
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Well, honestly, to that point, so I have crossed the finish line of two full distance trathons, and I have DNF'd a full distance trathon.
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And my experience in both of those scenarios uh have context into this study, actually, and like our goals and and how we're viewing how we did in those events.
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Uh, so that's why I I was pausing on if I get into that part now or if I sort of save it for a little bit later.
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Uh, you you caught my brain buffering there.
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But I did my first full back in 2016, and I was in my my mid-20s back then.
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So I was young and naive.
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No, but I I I wasn't a mom yet.
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I was, yeah, I don't know, I was just in my 20s, married, I had a job, and I randomly decided I want to do triathlon.
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If you again, if y'all have know anything about me or heard any of my stories, not to be super redundant, but that's more or less how I got into triathlon was I decided I wanted to do an Iron Man, and I didn't even know that like a sprint distance triathlon existed.
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I saw Kona on the TV and was like, that's cool.
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I'm I'm gonna do one of those.
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And then realized that like I actually needed to be good to be able to do the one I was seeing on TV.
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But, anyways, train for an Iron Man.
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I experienced the post-trace blues afterwards, which sort of to provide a brief definition is sort of this period of time where you feel a little bit lost, maybe your mood's a little down, sort of some like light depressive experiences.
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We're not in a clinical realm where we're in a full-blown depression, but we're just sort of having this lower experience from a situation.
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And you may have heard about the blues in in other contexts, such as like the post-baby blues after you have a baby, the post-Olympic blues, naturally, if you've heard of those, a little bit more heavier research than other areas, but just sort of this period of time where you're in a little bit of uh a lower mood after a big life event, basically.
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And so my my personal experience, and then after a few years in Trathlon, I got into coaching and kind of also had a bigger community than I had when I was training on my own and realized that it was it was more common than I realized, and a lot more athletes were experiencing it.
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So when it came time in school, they told us to pick a topic we were passionate about and sort of see where the research in that area was and how we could contribute to it.
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I knew that this was a passion point for me, and that's how I ended up here.
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Wow, that was a long time.
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I mean, obviously you dug super deeply into this, but it's I feel like it is a topic that a lot of us don't talk about.
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Like, like you, like I saw Aaron Man Kona and like Coach Marty too.
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R Man Kona on TV, like I'm gonna do that.
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And then you don't necessarily consider like, oh my gosh, how much training is this gonna take?
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And then, you know, yes, is race day gonna feel hard?
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Yeah, but then are you gonna feel super accomplished afterwards?
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Yes, and then what the heck happens after that?
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So did you find in your research that other than you know, like you had mentioned postpartum blues and post-Olympics and things like that, that this is a somewhat quiet topic?
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Like it's a less research topic than I was expecting.
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I'll say that.
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So again, having my personal experience and then seeing others, and you know, I Googled it.
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What like what else do you do when you're trying to learn about something, right?
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Uh in a non-academic setting where this is like an official situation, but I Googled it.
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And you'll find articles, not like actual research literature articles, but like um, you know, Runner's World article and and those types of I don't know what the word I'm looking for is, but the the non-research type of an article that you would read, like a blog.
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Anecdotal story, you know, anecdotal information.
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So um I I found those and was sort of operating my discussions off of that.
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But then when it came time to writing my lit review for my research proposal and trying to find actual articles on this topic, in the context of Long Course Trathlon, there's a handful that have been published.
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A handful.
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Most of what you're able to find on Post Race Blues is in relation to runners, more specifically at the marathon distance, is where the bulk of that research is.
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So there's some of that that carries over, right?
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But we also know that running a marathon and racing a full Iron Man is a very drastically different physical and mental feats.
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That's not to say anything about marathon runners, don't come for me, my runner friends.
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Running a marathon is hard.
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Running an Iron Man is hard.
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Okay.
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They're but they're both hard.
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That doesn't make any one person or group of people better or worse than the other.
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Yeah, we're all doing amazing hard things for ourselves.
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Yes.
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Cool.
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From a research perspective, that means we have a lot more context into a marathon and a lot less context into Long Course Charathon when we're talking about this phenomenon.
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Similarly, when we look at like post-olympic blues, there's a body of research.
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It it's all relatively new research.
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In the in the research world, it's baby research.
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It's only been, you know, looking into it for maybe the last decade.
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And those of y'all that have written any sort of paper know that unless it's recent, it's just it's baby research.
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We're still fresh and learning about it.
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All that to say, the the background in long course, there's not a lot of it.
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So I I had to sort of piece together from uh post-olympic research and marathon running research and and apply what we could into triathlon and sort of take it from there.
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Yeah, fascinating.
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Of course, the Olympics are on right now, which I am personally obsessed with, as I will probably say about a million times more.
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And the extreme highs or lows that we can witness just as non-Olympic athletes.
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Yeah.
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In my head, I'm an Olympic athlete, but not in actuality.
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But then I'm thinking, like, golly, that is a lot to go through.
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And to the same end, so is doing an Iron Man.
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Now, granted, there's typically not this, like, you know, world platform, unless you're Kona.
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So it again, something that we don't necessarily think about.
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And then what happens on the back end?
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Like, is is in Olympic athletes, is it super common?
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Uh, I'm not it's difficult to say because it's not necessarily looked at across all Olympic athletes where we have necessarily a specific X percentage of Olympic athletes experience this.
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It's usually the ones that come forward or seek help, and then we're like, okay, there's clearly a subset here.
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What I I'll add to that is when you think about all the possible things that can contribute to something like this, right?
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We all come into the sport, and I'll I'll keep this specific to long course and my study, but we come into the sport with with other and different responsibilities in life, which makes our adaptation into training different.
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So you might be someone that has a lot on their plate and you're absolutely new to swimming and cycling.
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So you have a little bit extra to learn and an extra put to put into training, plus you're juggling more in life.
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And then some of us are retired and we've been in the sport a long time.
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And, you know, picking up volume for Iron Man is a little less cumbersome in that regard, right?
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So as I looked through the research and sort of selecting more or less which avenues and which predictors I wanted to look at for my study, I landed on passion subtypes, life balance.
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I'm sure that's sending up some flags for people already, and goal satisfaction.
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And I opted to go with goal satisfaction versus goal achievement because as a coach, you know, we often have athletes that will achieve their goal and still not be super happy with it, which is a fun nuance to all of you overachieving athletes.
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Or, or it's, you know, occasionally we get the opposite too.
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We didn't achieve the goal, but we're still really happy with XYZ.
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And overall, we're able to have this more optimistic uh outlook towards it, which is great.
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And I appreciate all of you that are able to do that.
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But you are sort of more in the lower category of that.
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Most people land on the I achieved my goal and I'm still really hungry and I still want to accomplish all these other things.
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And I don't necessarily take the time to appreciate that.
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All that to say, I went with satisfaction versus achievement in this situation.
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So, how do I actually feel about the outcome of what I wanted to get out of Iron Man?
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Am I feeling good about it?
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Am I not feeling so great about it, regardless of if I achieved it or not?
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And to your point, I also looked at it, it is a longitudinal study.
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So I took two data points.
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One was in within three to seven days post their race, because the research shows that that's when our blues period peaks.
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And then the the research also shows that we tend to return to baseline within 30 days of our event.
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So we sort of have this uh this ramp up within that one week, and then a little bit mixed review on how quickly we return back to our baseline, but usually within that 30 days.
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So I looked at that three to seven day window to hopefully catch any peaks.
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And then I followed up 30 days after that, sort of did a retest.
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So I do have some data to look at it over time, and we can kind of get into what all that.
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Yeah.
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So how many um how many humans did you?
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I ended up with just over 200 participants that took my initial survey.
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Yeah, it was.
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I had I had good strong numbers, which was great.
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And and all eight, like age range, gender.
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Great questions.
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Yeah.
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Um, I surprisingly and relatively unintentionally, I ended up with about 54% females uh for my participants, which in from Iron Man's reports, generally speaking, we are looking at about somewhere between 20 and 25 percent female participants for 70.3s, and then that drops to like 18-ish, 15% for long course.
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So I ended up with a higher percentage of females than is sort of indicative of a general race balance between genders, which was interesting.
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It didn't impact my results from like a significance standpoint, but it is something that I think in the future would be worth sparsing out more to continue looking into this topic.
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My age groups, uh, I also looked at experience level.
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Was this their first long course, uh, you know, two to four long course, five plus long course experience wise?
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Uh, and we were real uh across the board with all of them.
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So our age groups were pretty indicative of like what a sample size would look like from a typical long course event uh experience level was was the same.
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So other than that, gender split being a little bit off everything was pretty.
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I think my biggest age group was the 40 to 45, 40, 45 to 49.
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So again, very uh very on point with what a race sample would look like.
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Yeah, fascinating.
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All right.
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So they took this survey three to seven days after a race.
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Yep.
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And then you followed up about 30 days later.
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Yep, 30 days later.
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And I also added in my my follow-up, I also had some qualitative questions, and I haven't um because I ended up with so many participants, which is wonderful and lovely, have a lot of data to go through.
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So in my defense, actually, we sort of quote unquote scrapped the qualitative side of things, and I haven't fully dove into frankly reading them because I had over a hundred respondents in the follow-up, which was also really great.
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So in the turnaround time of sort of processing all this data and trying to graduate in time, we're sort of saving that for a secondary study from from what I gathered.
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But I did a hierarchical regression for the for my independent variables.
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I guess let me define to you.
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So passion was split using the dualistic model of passion.
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So there is harmonious passion and obsessive passion.
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And that distinction is important, one because the questionnaire sort of divided everyone into those buckets.
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What was your harmonious passion level and what was your obsessive passion?
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And the definition for those is sort of what you would imagine.
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Harmonious is when we're able to autonomously integrate our sport into our identity and our lifestyle.
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We feel the sort of quote unquote freedom to train when we want, train when we don't want.
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It feels very in line with our values and sort of what we're doing and all of that.
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And then the obsessively passionate part, again, obsessive, right?
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It feels sort of forced.
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We feel like we have to do the things uh or we're not going to be able to be in the sport.
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We're over-identifying.
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It's feeling very forced.
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And I'm sure those are.
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Oh, absolutely not.
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No.
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Yeah.
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But I I think it's a valid point.
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And as a side note, I've been looking into that research just out of personal nerdiness.
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So maybe we'll talk about that another time.
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Yeah, totally, totally.
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But but yes, where we have this like we lose that autonomy part and we feel like we we have this necessary urge.
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And whether that is something that is happening from within us, or maybe we have outside influences that are sort of drawing us in.
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That this can also fall into the category of like, all my friends are doing it, so now I'm doing it.
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And we don't really have that doing it for ourselves part.
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We have that that sort of forcedness into it, if that makes sense.
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So we have those two types of passion that we're getting out of this group of surveys that people took.
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And then we have a total life balance score.
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So as you can imagine, that is a a range of I feel super balanced to everything is a hot mess.
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And then our goal of satisfaction also.
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Is that your exact question that you asked people?
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Is everything a hot mess?
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Pretty much, yeah.
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But it does, it did uh the questionnaire range, right, from different areas of our life.
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But overall, again, thinking of the different roles that we have, whether it's work or at home, or maybe you're involved in organized religion, like the different avenues that we have and how are we balancing them?
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Are we contributing as much as we would like to?
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And those sorts of things.
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And we looked at the life balance, it was 30 days prior.
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So in that peak time of training, what did our life balance look like and how were we feeling about it?
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And then goal satisfaction, of course, being related to that specific race that they were using as their marker for the survey.
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Yeah.
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So you've got the passion part, you've got the life balance part, and then you also talked about goal satisfaction.
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Yeah.
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So those were like the three big realms of what you researched.
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How how long did these did they roughly take?
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Like how long were those surveys?
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Uh, I think those surveys averaged like eight minutes, but it was 10 to 12.
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For the life survey in particular, that one I you learn a lot when you do your first research study.
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Um and in survey selection, and certainly a big one that I'll be interested if I delve into this more in the research world, if I stick with that measure.
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It was it gave me the most breadth of information, but it was a little trickier and I think a little bit more redundant on the participant side of like, do I want to do this activity and have I done this activity?
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And it was a lot of activities.
00:20:11.869 --> 00:20:16.269
Um, again, trying to sort of capture all the different things.
00:20:16.430 --> 00:20:24.509
Maybe you're artistic, maybe you're into music, maybe again, you're in you have um community activities that you're involved in.
00:20:24.670 --> 00:20:28.990
It tried to hit all the different roles that a human might incorporate into their life.
00:20:29.149 --> 00:20:30.909
So it was a bit it was a hefty one.
00:20:31.230 --> 00:20:48.349
But all that to say, the the first step of my regression was all the demographic variables and age, gender, and traff on experience did not significantly predict the post-race blues, at least in my sample of participants.
00:20:48.829 --> 00:20:59.950
We did find, so I'm I measured post-race blues with the brunes, the Brunel mood score, and that comes up with a total mood disturbance score as its total score.
00:21:00.509 --> 00:21:10.349
We did have a subset of athletes that would have scored and sort of qualified as more of an actual blues experience.
00:21:10.509 --> 00:21:24.990
But overall, majority of the participants just had a mild mood disturbance, and we probably wouldn't have fully categorized them as having actual blues experience, just a little note of it.
00:21:25.309 --> 00:21:35.069
But for in in terms of the numbers that we had, the age, the gender, and the experience did not significantly predict in this sample size.
00:21:35.629 --> 00:21:40.750
In the second step, I I entered passion and life balance.
00:21:42.109 --> 00:21:52.670
And surprisingly, harmonious passion was not significant, but obsessive passion and life balance were significant and accounted for about 30%.
00:21:53.149 --> 00:21:59.309
I think it was 27% more specifically, of predicting post-race flus, which is a lot.
00:21:59.710 --> 00:22:04.109
So if I'm hearing you right, more obsessive.
00:22:04.990 --> 00:22:06.349
Well, you didn't actually say that.
00:22:06.589 --> 00:22:18.909
So what I'm synthesizing in my head is it sounds like the more obsessive you are and the worse your life balance is, the higher the predicted post-race blues.
00:22:19.149 --> 00:22:19.549
Yes.
00:22:20.029 --> 00:22:20.349
Okay.
00:22:21.309 --> 00:22:22.109
Interesting.
00:22:22.430 --> 00:22:30.750
So the lower your life balance, the higher likelihood of your blues experience.
00:22:31.389 --> 00:22:33.389
So the the worse your blues would be.
00:22:33.950 --> 00:22:45.629
And that in this step to the the life balance of that 27%, the life balance was significantly more of a predictor than the obsessive passion.
00:22:45.869 --> 00:22:53.789
So it was really interesting that of them, that life balance factor was the biggest factor that I found to be a predictor of the putter's loose.
00:22:54.029 --> 00:23:02.430
And then then the third step that I I added goal satisfaction, which was also a significant predictor, but it was it was small percentage-wise.
00:23:02.509 --> 00:23:03.230
It was only 2%.
00:23:03.950 --> 00:23:12.670
So while all a significant predictor, it was definitely secondary to uh life balance, which was which was a big one.
00:23:12.990 --> 00:23:13.629
Wow.
00:23:14.109 --> 00:23:20.829
So okay, so we went over the methodology and the results, and now we're into the discussion part.
00:23:21.069 --> 00:23:21.309
Okay.
00:23:23.950 --> 00:23:45.470
So uh yeah, so I know that you've almost like sort of dove into like, man, there's so much more that we could do in terms of research, but what does this feel like in terms of not only what your research means to the greater long course community, but certainly in your own life?
00:23:45.629 --> 00:23:48.109
Like, what is it like?
00:23:48.349 --> 00:23:49.549
Those were big questions.
00:23:49.950 --> 00:23:51.230
Yeah, those are big questions.
00:23:51.549 --> 00:23:52.670
Sorry, not sorry.
00:23:52.909 --> 00:23:56.909
Well, and let me let me actually back up before we get into those questions.
00:23:57.149 --> 00:24:01.629
Those were the results from my initial study in that three to seven day period.
00:24:02.109 --> 00:24:02.430
Okay.
00:24:02.909 --> 00:24:11.789
When I retested for the follow-up study, I looked at life balance again and we looked at total mood score again.
00:24:12.029 --> 00:24:17.629
So, because passion would remain stable, goal satisfaction was what it was.
00:24:17.869 --> 00:24:24.509
Life balance significantly improved over the course of time.
00:24:24.670 --> 00:24:33.549
So by that 30 days, we saw a significant improvement in life balance, meaning people were getting back to filling all of those roles again.
00:24:34.509 --> 00:24:39.230
We did not get a significant change in mood disturbance.
00:24:39.470 --> 00:24:58.990
So, again, at the moment, I'm theorizing that because we had such a small subset that actually qualified for uh a more impactful blues experience, that everyone else's was so mild that we didn't have enough to actually see a significant change within them.
00:24:59.149 --> 00:25:03.149
Like it might have it improved, but not significantly enough.
00:25:03.309 --> 00:25:07.950
But I think that's because that it what they weren't experiencing it bad enough in the stamp.
00:25:08.349 --> 00:25:08.750
Bad enough.
00:25:08.829 --> 00:25:10.269
That sounds terrible.
00:25:11.230 --> 00:25:12.589
Good enough, really.
00:25:13.470 --> 00:25:16.190
Well, I mean, when we're talking about statistics.
00:25:16.509 --> 00:25:16.829
Right.
00:25:16.990 --> 00:25:17.389
Yes.
00:25:17.549 --> 00:25:17.869
Yes.
00:25:18.269 --> 00:25:18.829
And bless.
00:25:19.149 --> 00:25:21.230
Bear with me, my statistics friends.
00:25:21.389 --> 00:25:25.950
Uh but anyways, no, which is also an interesting finding.
00:25:26.109 --> 00:25:39.470
So one of the subscales in the Brums is tension, which you can imagine is sort of this like friction point feeling like uh we're sort of biting heads in some way with areas of our life.
00:25:39.789 --> 00:25:56.909
Tension increased over time, which sparked a really interesting conversation of what happens when we return to more balanced lifestyles.
00:25:59.549 --> 00:26:12.509
And I'm letting that I'm I'm purposefully letting that sink in for a second because I know for like what came to my mind first was different than what came to mind for one of my committee members.
00:26:12.909 --> 00:26:27.950
But both were equally valid reasons of why our tension might increase when we are maybe home a little bit more than we have been, or maybe we're spending time with certain family members more than we were before.
00:26:28.109 --> 00:26:32.750
Uh riding your bike was a nice escape and amazing.
00:26:34.269 --> 00:26:40.029
Um, so I all I can say is that tension increased over time.
00:26:40.990 --> 00:26:42.430
Right, interesting.
00:26:42.750 --> 00:26:49.549
But I think that's also a testament to let to to why people are drawn to the sport, right?
00:26:49.629 --> 00:27:03.069
If it if we're in peak Iron Man training and experiencing less tension during a time where we're pr probably experiencing low life balance, that's interesting.
00:27:03.389 --> 00:27:04.029
Yeah.
00:27:04.909 --> 00:27:19.789
And you can see why it would sound alluring to go ride your bike for six hours on a Saturday, if somehow that is less tension-causing than a quote unquote normal Saturday outside of training.
00:27:20.589 --> 00:27:25.389
Anyways, that's where I'm at with my with the follow-up findings at this point in time.
00:27:25.710 --> 00:27:37.710
From a sort of practical implications standpoint for athletes, for coaches, for sport psych folks, we really want to pay attention to how these athletes are diving into their sport.
00:27:37.869 --> 00:27:40.990
Are we seeing signs of over-identification?
00:27:41.389 --> 00:27:48.589
Are we seeing signs that might be pointing towards just this really big swing in life balance?
00:27:48.750 --> 00:27:53.710
Are they saying they're putting down a bunch of other things to be able to get into Iron Man training?
00:27:53.950 --> 00:27:57.309
And what can we do to help with that?
00:27:57.549 --> 00:28:16.909
Which is sort of part of the bigger question when we talk about long horse traton or other ultra-endurance sport, that we have to put in a certain amount of hours to be able to get our bodies up to this point of being able to race.
00:28:17.069 --> 00:28:25.389
And so from a from an hours perspective, how do we, as a sport, how do we figure that out?
00:28:25.549 --> 00:28:31.309
How can we participate in a sport that takes up this much time and find ways to keep that balance?
00:28:31.470 --> 00:28:40.509
And I think that will continue to be the age-old question as we sort of not only look into this topic, but just longevity in this sport.
00:28:40.670 --> 00:28:44.029
How do we how do we find ways to balance it?
00:28:44.190 --> 00:28:47.549
I know for me, I try to get creative with my athletes.
00:28:48.269 --> 00:29:08.589
I sort of space training out a little extra longer, maybe, but so we can have extra weekends off where maybe we take a break from, you know, these really big brick days and they just have like an hour session and it's it's blocked for family or something like that.
00:29:08.829 --> 00:29:17.230
So, you know, our our our bulk of training might be, you know, more into the 20 to 25 weeks versus 16.
00:29:17.629 --> 00:29:22.909
But I'm trying to help, you know, keep the spouse happy too, right?
00:29:22.990 --> 00:29:33.549
We're trying, we're trying to find ways to not peak too soon, but also just give a little bit more breathing room in the bulk of that training, which will work for some and won't for others.
00:29:33.710 --> 00:29:47.710
But that's sort of again, back to the bigger question of how do we look at the roles that someone's trying to play and help accommodate this big volume training so they can do both.
00:29:48.029 --> 00:29:48.670
Yeah.
00:29:49.710 --> 00:29:57.230
And from like the passion and its things, I'm obsessed or uh, I'm not, um I'm fascinated by this obsession versus what was what was that?
00:29:57.549 --> 00:29:58.269
Harmonious.
00:29:58.589 --> 00:29:59.710
Harmonious.
00:29:59.950 --> 00:30:01.149
That's lovely.
00:30:01.309 --> 00:30:03.309
I feel like that should be our tagline.
00:30:04.430 --> 00:30:10.269
Endurance edge, harmonious, harmonious training, harmonious life.
00:30:10.430 --> 00:30:13.230
Like that's really what it should be.
00:30:13.869 --> 00:30:14.190
Yeah.
00:30:14.430 --> 00:30:31.789
If if I were training everyone, you know, which it uh in my mind, it should be a lifestyle in which you are able to do all these different fun, hard things, but also have a life.
00:30:32.029 --> 00:30:32.349
Yeah.
00:30:32.589 --> 00:30:33.470
Have a life.
00:30:33.789 --> 00:30:40.909
And in my sample, we did find that pretty much across the board we had high harmonious passion.
00:30:40.990 --> 00:30:44.349
So you can be both, yeah, is part of this thing, right?
00:30:44.589 --> 00:30:53.629
So most of the athletes scored high in harmonious passion, and then we had a subset of them that also scored high in obsessive passion.
00:30:53.789 --> 00:31:01.869
So it was kind of like where you fall on one impacts this more than the other.
00:31:02.589 --> 00:31:08.990
We also generally had high goal satisfaction, which was I was like, yay, everyone's happy, which is always nice.
00:31:09.230 --> 00:31:10.990
Um, so that was good too.
00:31:11.230 --> 00:31:18.269
But so maybe it's almost like backing up a little bit and saying, why do I want to do this?
00:31:18.909 --> 00:31:22.509
And sometimes that's uh, I feel like that's a heavy question.
00:31:22.750 --> 00:31:34.589
And then we just sort of like, well, I'm just gonna keep going because I paid my race registration, or you know, like, you know, you almost get like too heavily invested, and then it's like, but can you turn around?
00:31:34.750 --> 00:31:35.230
Yeah.
00:31:35.549 --> 00:31:41.389
Which also like finances and budgeting and all of that is part of the life balance as well.
00:31:41.549 --> 00:31:45.309
Of like, I am I keeping this in line with what I want it to be.
00:31:45.549 --> 00:31:56.509
That's actually sort of part of what I was sparsing out during my lit review, because we do hear people be like, well, I've committed all this money, I've bought a new bike, I've I'm I'm paying I'm paying all of this money.
00:31:56.750 --> 00:32:01.389
I'm I better not quit at this point.
00:32:01.549 --> 00:32:04.589
I better not get overwhelmed with how much time it's taking, yada, yada.
00:32:05.149 --> 00:32:20.269
As I again, as I went into this lit review of trying to find like, okay, how do we, how do we quantify that, not just like from a doll literal dollars and cents perspective, but from a psychological factor, like what does that look like?
00:32:20.430 --> 00:32:21.710
What is investment?
00:32:22.269 --> 00:32:23.950
What is sacrifice?
00:32:24.109 --> 00:32:28.029
And how does that all come together as we engage in sport?
00:32:28.190 --> 00:32:40.589
And ultimately, I really liked this life balance as a sort of a uh catch-all for lack of a better word, but to encompass both of those as like what we we're sacrificing a lot.
00:32:40.750 --> 00:32:46.349
Some of us are spending percentage-wise more than others, right?
00:32:46.589 --> 00:32:52.589
And some of us are, again, based on the roles that we have, some of us are sacrificing more than others to participate in the sport.
00:32:52.829 --> 00:32:54.589
So, how does that all come together?
00:32:54.670 --> 00:33:02.109
Uh, and this life balance was sort of the encompassing construct for that.
00:33:02.750 --> 00:33:03.389
Interesting.
00:33:04.509 --> 00:33:10.509
So having done all this research, what do you feel like it means for you?
00:33:10.670 --> 00:33:16.829
And then what do you feel like it means for uh you as a coach, you as an athlete and you as a coach?
00:33:19.950 --> 00:33:28.670
I think to your earlier point, and we'll kind of circle top so when I'm exactly to the very first thing that we were talking about.
00:33:28.990 --> 00:33:48.109
We as athletes, and I I have been consulting with other sports psych professionals who are particularly because I had these results back in uh, you know, early winter and fall when racing season was ending, and that's just how long it takes to sort of wrap all these things up that we're here in February now.
00:33:48.269 --> 00:33:52.190
But like my my athletes are done with their racing season and they're they're having blues.
00:33:52.349 --> 00:33:55.789
Not necessarily that they did this race and they're done, but their season is done.
00:33:55.869 --> 00:33:58.109
They're heading into off-season, they're on the treadmill.
00:33:58.349 --> 00:34:02.990
And a lot of the conversation has been around just this change in structure, right?
00:34:03.149 --> 00:34:09.710
So as we go back to these other roles, how do we keep a structure for exercise?
00:34:09.950 --> 00:34:11.869
Because that is meaningful for us.
00:34:12.030 --> 00:34:14.750
We have likely ingrained that in our identity.
00:34:14.909 --> 00:34:16.990
It's likely part of our core values.
00:34:17.150 --> 00:34:26.990
And as we transition into filling more of the other cups for our other roles, how do we keep these ones filled enough that we have that balance?
00:34:27.150 --> 00:34:37.710
And that starts by planning ahead, looking ahead after the race, because we very much get into this, we only look to the race point, right?
00:34:37.950 --> 00:34:48.590
And even as coaches, we we toe this line of like, well, I don't want to start talking to them about the race we have after the race, but we kind of need to.
00:34:48.750 --> 00:35:06.349
We can't just like have this big race and then again, within this, this particularly that week afterwards, not have a plan or not have a check-in or not have anything that we're looking forward to in some way, shape, or form.
00:35:06.590 --> 00:35:19.389
So I think just considering that that month after a race and having a plan for it and making sure that and we we also have athletes that their their coaching ends when they race.
00:35:19.550 --> 00:35:22.429
And I would recommend keeping your coach for another month.
00:35:22.509 --> 00:35:48.110
Have those check-ins, have that sounding board, have someone who understands what you just went through that you can just check in with and maybe try to keep something in training peaks for a little bit afterwards, even if it doesn't, it doesn't have to be as crazy and all of that, but something to help keep that structure and those check-ins going so it doesn't feel like we're stepping into a completely different world.
00:35:49.469 --> 00:35:50.349
So interesting.
00:35:50.590 --> 00:35:54.269
You so beautifully skirted the question of you as an athlete.
00:35:57.710 --> 00:36:06.269
Um I think I would take that exact advice, honestly.
00:36:06.509 --> 00:36:19.949
I think particularly after my first Iron Man, I was just so laser focused on that day that life afterwards wasn't a consideration.
00:36:20.110 --> 00:36:36.190
And it's really hard to think about when you like like you're saying, when you're so like, oh my gosh, I want this thing, especially if you've never experienced it, then it's like I don't even, I don't even have the time to insert into my brain what's gonna happen afterwards.
00:36:36.429 --> 00:36:37.070
Yep.
00:36:37.469 --> 00:36:39.469
Cause that seems like a distraction.
00:36:39.789 --> 00:36:40.429
Right.
00:36:40.909 --> 00:36:52.750
And it's almost like you're skipping over this major life event, but really reframing that into taking care of yourself, uh it really is um it becomes a form of self-care, right?
00:36:52.909 --> 00:37:04.110
That I'm especially if you're someone that has experienced this and is anticipating that it would happen again, because we do have those athletes too that are like, after every 70.3, this happens to me.
00:37:04.190 --> 00:37:10.190
And it's like, okay, what can we do to prepare for that and hopefully make a better scenario for you after this one?
00:37:10.349 --> 00:37:11.469
Think of it as self-care.
00:37:11.550 --> 00:37:16.269
If that helps you reframe it to to be something that you'll actually do.
00:37:16.909 --> 00:37:30.909
But ultimately, the craziness of this whole situation is I'm leaving this research study with more questions than answers, which is wonderful and beautiful.
00:37:31.070 --> 00:37:42.829
And but also like I hope the research continues and we get more answers and specifically for long course traits and what y'all experience in the sport.
00:37:43.070 --> 00:37:44.269
Yeah, fascinating.
00:37:44.429 --> 00:38:05.309
That also reminds me of some of the genes we see in genetic testing of typically in the mood and behavior category of certain there are certain genes that make us more susceptible to feeling kinda blue.
00:38:05.550 --> 00:38:06.190
Yep.
00:38:06.670 --> 00:38:18.909
And there's there's naturally in the post-olympic blues research who may or may or may not, I'm not making accusations, get some funding.
00:38:19.150 --> 00:38:36.429
But they have a lot more, again, they're they're further into this side of the research, but there was a lot of interesting, more biophysiological side of the sciences to incorporate in in what they were finding.
00:38:36.509 --> 00:38:44.029
So lots of like cortisol, they're looking at sleep a lot and other additional factors, as we said, the whole all the things that go into this.
00:38:44.190 --> 00:38:45.469
So it was really interested.
00:38:45.710 --> 00:39:00.909
And if you guys are more interested in reading more about this, I would sort of skip over into the post-Olympic blues research just because there's I think more well-rounded data at at this point in time where that research is.
00:39:01.150 --> 00:39:07.710
But it's really interesting to look at like all the factors together and and how they're impacting those athletes.
00:39:08.029 --> 00:39:08.590
Wow.
00:39:08.829 --> 00:39:15.550
So what's next, not only for you, but also like for this topic.
00:39:15.710 --> 00:39:21.789
I mean, I know that you left with more questions than answers, but like what next?
00:39:22.110 --> 00:39:23.230
I don't know.
00:39:23.389 --> 00:39:24.590
Great question.
00:39:25.869 --> 00:39:27.789
You just did your own long course.
00:39:29.070 --> 00:39:30.989
I very I very much did.
00:39:31.230 --> 00:39:32.110
Um, I don't know.
00:39:32.269 --> 00:39:40.110
I think at some point I will get a co-author to hack up and rewrite some of my final dissertation.
00:39:40.269 --> 00:39:49.469
Um, I think I have some really interesting findings here that other people would also find interesting if I can take a step back from it and acknowledge that.
00:39:49.789 --> 00:39:54.670
So I think at some point I'll reach out and hopefully get a co-author that can help me get this published.
00:39:54.829 --> 00:39:56.029
That would be really cool.
00:39:56.190 --> 00:40:06.190
But I also trying to be self-aware and and know that I needed a break and to take a take a minute and recover from the whole school process.
00:40:06.349 --> 00:40:08.750
Um Yeah, speaking of life balance, right?
00:40:08.989 --> 00:40:10.349
Yeah, exactly.
00:40:10.670 --> 00:40:19.949
So, but yeah, time to time for me to get back to some structured training and some of the more fun side of things.
00:40:20.349 --> 00:40:33.789
Considering all of this, like between your experience with post-race blues and your experience coaching and in sport psychology, do you would you be more cautious going into long course?
00:40:33.869 --> 00:40:35.789
Do you think you want to do a long course again?
00:40:35.869 --> 00:40:42.429
Or now that you know the short course exists, our mommy's trying to get people in short course.
00:40:42.509 --> 00:40:46.509
I'm like, come on, you guys, let's go fast and then go home for breakfast.
00:40:47.949 --> 00:40:53.469
Um I yeah, I'll absolutely be getting back to long course at some point.
00:40:53.710 --> 00:41:00.110
I think very similarly, I feel like I'm coming out of Iron Man training.
00:41:00.269 --> 00:41:16.429
I, the volume of time that school took up for my family, I I'm very much in a phase right now of rebalancing and and filling up other roles and cups and trying to be a better friend and daughter than I've had the time to be.
00:41:16.670 --> 00:41:19.550
So that's the phase that I'm in right now.
00:41:19.710 --> 00:41:28.909
I know I'll come back to long course at some point, but but you'll probably have me in the in the sprint uh category for a bit as I work my way back.
00:41:29.150 --> 00:41:33.150
But short course rules.
00:41:34.269 --> 00:41:37.150
It is it is nice to be home by lunch for sure.
00:41:37.469 --> 00:41:38.590
Yeah, definitely.
00:41:38.829 --> 00:41:40.750
And life balance in general.
00:41:40.989 --> 00:41:41.630
Yeah.
00:41:42.269 --> 00:41:47.389
And you know, after feelings, you know, like who needs that?
00:41:47.630 --> 00:41:50.029
Nobody at all.
00:41:50.989 --> 00:41:52.909
So cool, Dr.
00:41:53.150 --> 00:41:53.789
Carly.
00:41:57.710 --> 00:41:58.989
It's still weird.
00:42:00.829 --> 00:42:02.670
None of it has sunk in, y'all.
00:42:02.829 --> 00:42:06.029
I'm I'm I don't know.
00:42:07.389 --> 00:42:09.150
Imposter syndrome is real.
00:42:09.309 --> 00:42:20.590
I still feel like just a little baby navigating this whole realm, but also confident in myself at the same time.
00:42:20.750 --> 00:42:21.630
It's really weird.
00:42:21.789 --> 00:42:22.429
But yeah.
00:42:23.469 --> 00:42:26.670
I think that is the typical life journey.
00:42:26.989 --> 00:42:27.230
Yeah.
00:42:27.710 --> 00:42:33.789
You know, as you get so deeply nerdy into something, and then you're like, but doesn't everybody already know this?
00:42:33.949 --> 00:42:36.110
And why does this make me special?
00:42:36.349 --> 00:42:40.029
And yeah, owning some greatness.
00:42:40.509 --> 00:42:40.750
Yeah.
00:42:40.909 --> 00:42:43.550
I feel like that needs to be the 2026 theme.
00:42:44.029 --> 00:42:45.550
Own your greatness, people.
00:42:46.029 --> 00:42:47.230
Myself included.
00:42:47.949 --> 00:42:50.269
And for you, definitely for you, Dr.
00:42:50.429 --> 00:42:51.070
Carly.
00:42:52.190 --> 00:42:54.909
I might take a little I need a nap first, I think.
00:42:56.909 --> 00:42:58.590
We're gonna call that self-care.
00:42:58.829 --> 00:43:00.190
Good night, friends.
00:43:01.070 --> 00:43:04.829
Yes, I've had a reasonable bedtime for the last couple weeks.
00:43:04.909 --> 00:43:05.789
It's been beautiful.
00:43:06.029 --> 00:43:07.389
It's miraculous, isn't it?
00:43:07.949 --> 00:43:08.429
I know.
00:43:08.670 --> 00:43:09.789
Oh my gosh.
00:43:10.349 --> 00:43:12.829
Let's let's shout that from the rooftops.
00:43:13.389 --> 00:43:14.909
Sleep is amazing.
00:43:15.230 --> 00:43:21.469
The the worst part, I think, was that my assignments were always due at um 3 a.m.
00:43:21.710 --> 00:43:24.190
for me, midnight Pacific.
00:43:25.389 --> 00:43:29.389
So again, getting things done when I could get them done.
00:43:29.550 --> 00:43:36.429
I wish it had been midnight Eastern, but the amount of times that I was up till two something in the morning was too much.
00:43:36.670 --> 00:43:36.989
Yeah.
00:43:37.230 --> 00:43:38.429
But it's done now.
00:43:38.829 --> 00:43:39.230
Yeah.
00:43:39.469 --> 00:43:40.349
Congratulations.
00:43:40.590 --> 00:43:43.230
I know that that was a hard process to go through.
00:43:43.389 --> 00:43:55.869
And being the wonderful perfectionist that you are, dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's and and then uncovering some really amazing research.
00:43:56.029 --> 00:43:58.110
Like, this is great.
00:43:58.349 --> 00:43:58.989
Yeah.
00:43:59.389 --> 00:44:04.829
And releasing a lot of my perfectionism in the journey because I had I had to, I didn't have a choice.
00:44:04.989 --> 00:44:05.389
I had to.
00:44:05.630 --> 00:44:06.029
Yeah.
00:44:06.269 --> 00:44:06.909
Good for you.
00:44:07.150 --> 00:44:08.670
I learned a lot of journey about that.
00:44:08.750 --> 00:44:09.309
That's so cool.
00:44:09.710 --> 00:44:19.230
Um, Carly, I'm so glad that you were able to share this journey with us of your own personal long course dissertation.
00:44:19.869 --> 00:44:26.190
Chris was asking if I wanted to share my my slide deck from my defense, but it's just a lot of numbers.
00:44:26.909 --> 00:44:35.869
And again, in the learning process of like, how do I now back this out to make it deliverable and a more fun way for people to learn about it?
00:44:36.670 --> 00:44:40.670
It's a hard process of, and this goes for anyone, right?
00:44:41.150 --> 00:44:51.630
Being in an educational setting, and um like when I first graduated, and then I was writing blogs, like I was writing papers.
00:44:51.869 --> 00:44:52.029
Yeah.
00:44:52.269 --> 00:44:55.550
And I was like, I'm not trained in this, I'm not trained to.
00:44:55.949 --> 00:45:04.670
To not, you know, like you're trained in a way that is like this is for the academic community, and you have to have this cited in this way.
00:45:04.829 --> 00:45:11.710
And then I was like, you mean I just like put it out on a blog, like what my thoughts are, and you know, yes.
00:45:11.949 --> 00:45:18.269
It's like how do how the the translation process is something I think that needs to be trained in a way.
00:45:18.429 --> 00:45:18.670
Yeah.
00:45:18.909 --> 00:45:38.029
And then also you have this interesting gap of how do you take it in the quote unquote right way that will actually serve the community and serve the public in a way that's not because man, that translation part can be real ugly.
00:45:38.269 --> 00:45:38.509
Yeah.
00:45:38.590 --> 00:45:39.309
And potentially.
00:45:39.710 --> 00:45:42.110
That's uh in preparing for this conversation.
00:45:42.190 --> 00:45:50.029
I was having, I was going back and forth in my head between like, I want to make sure I'm sharing this information in a digestible way.
00:45:51.070 --> 00:46:02.190
But also coming out of the context of making sure that my nuances were very clear and that and that I wasn't providing results that my numbers weren't showing.
00:46:02.269 --> 00:46:05.630
And I I don't want y'all to take things out of context.
00:46:05.949 --> 00:46:09.789
But I also don't want to be so nerdy that no one wants to listen.
00:46:10.029 --> 00:46:10.269
Yeah.
00:46:10.909 --> 00:46:11.789
To an extent, right?
00:46:11.869 --> 00:46:21.309
Like obviously you guys are here to be a little bit nerdy with us, but no one actually wants to hear the ridiculousness that came out of my my defense over here, right?
00:46:21.710 --> 00:46:30.750
I mean, obviously some people do, but um, you know, like the Hubermans of like, which is like every podcast is like going to a college course.
00:46:30.989 --> 00:46:31.469
Yeah.
00:46:31.710 --> 00:46:38.110
You know, so some people do, but then the rest of us kind of want the, you know, like give me the reader's digest version.
00:46:38.269 --> 00:46:38.429
Right.
00:46:38.829 --> 00:46:58.349
That because there's so many things to learn in this world that how can I take this little tidbit and put it into insert it into the rest of the context of my life, which again can be a like I think you did a really good job about being very clear with Okay, good life balance people.
00:46:58.829 --> 00:47:04.429
You know, there's your summary balance people process, so aim for life balance, regardless.
00:47:05.789 --> 00:47:07.150
Yeah, so good.
00:47:07.230 --> 00:47:11.789
And I mean it, you know, that's the challenge with research in general is but and you're obviously very close to this.
00:47:11.869 --> 00:47:14.190
You wrote it too close, yeah.
00:47:14.509 --> 00:47:23.309
When you are just reading a when you're just skimming an abstract, which is what I do frequently, then it's like, okay, well, let's jump to this conclusion.
00:47:23.469 --> 00:47:32.590
It's like, but did you get deeper into some of the methodology and you know, their statistics and whoo?
00:47:32.909 --> 00:47:37.070
And then we've spent a lot of time doing certain things.
00:47:37.150 --> 00:47:38.750
So, you know, we we want the shortcut.
00:47:39.150 --> 00:47:39.789
It's okay.
00:47:40.029 --> 00:47:40.750
We're human.
00:47:41.070 --> 00:47:41.389
Shortcut.
00:47:44.349 --> 00:47:44.750
All right.
00:47:44.909 --> 00:47:53.949
Well, Carly, thank you so much for coming on and for sharing all your research and all your uh fabulousness and sharing your greatness.